[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

As for any electric car they’re good to drive around as daily shopping picking dropping kids to/from school driving to work and back. They’re crap for racing and long distance driving. That’s a fact. Oh and that’s in mild climate. Not too hot and not too cold unless new second gen dry battery packs are ready for production. Yes. I am doing my research. If you are ready to wait 20-30 min to charge battery powered car while on the trip you’re welcome if you are ready to be beta tester you are more than welcome

IMO the number of M cars which actually spend time on the track vs total number sold is extremely low.

There just as much a peacock car as AMG, R/S-Line, etc.

[t$]

for me, i have little interest in an EV M / sports car. Ill hang onto my 3 pedal ICE to do the 20% of fun driving and eventually I'll buy something efficient to replace my 4runner for the 80% of boring driving I do -- but it definitely wont be an M car. the one car for all purposes thing doesnt make sense to me (unless you are severly parking limited) -- sure that one guys friend has a taycan turbo thats crushing buttonwillow, but personally Id so much rather have a regular taycan and a cayman or 911 for the track.

I also agree that very expensive/sport/luxury EVs seem like a dangerous path for auto makers right now, bc there has been a lot of pent up demand but it feels like thats starting to wane as everyone who wanted one has one. I read an article along those lines for Rivian -- they've mostly sold to everyone who placed an order and the future demand is questionable. Realistically how many people want/can afford a 100k electric sports truck.

the one factor that I could see forcing a much larger shift to EV would be high gas prices. Image what the demand for EVs would be if gas were $12-15/gallon. Only a very special ICE car for wealthy enthusiasts would make sense to drive at that point. i dont know much about the oil market but it seems plausible.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

IMO the number of M cars which actually spend time on the track vs total number sold is extremely low.

There just as much a peacock car as AMG, R/S-Line, etc.

I wouldn’t buy any current M car for track duty.

[ynguldyn]

Hm. I never realized this was a Miata forum.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by VegasG42

Only 1% of a vehicles use is NOT around town running short errands ?

For most people , who take at least 2 or 3 road trips per year, that isn't the case.

The average driver is putting about 12,000 miles on their car per year.

Let's say one road trip is 600 miles round-trip . Another is 700. And the third is 1,000 miles.

So that's 2,300 miles for road trips and vacations.

That's almost 20% of your vehicles mileage every year.

Not to mention , the amount of people who travel for work . And retired people who like to travel and take road trips.

Most people don't want to have to stop every few hours and look for a charging station , and then spend another 20 to 30 minutes charging your vehicle.

Initial buyers are M cars are predominantly low mileage leases. Lease > Mod > Post photos on BMW forum > Return to stock > Turn in and lease another.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by JMD

Breaking News! All BEV M cars will be faster than every single ICE M car model that came before it! Fact is, many folks don't want to accept this,...fact is, it will happen! No!! Make that, it's Going to Happen!!!

That's is a value point...


However all fast EVs rely on raw power vs. light weight and handling dynamics. You have your outlyers Rimac.. But it does weight 5,000 lbs and has 1800hp. Put 1800hp in an twin turbo 911 GT3 RS (3300lbs) and it would eat any EV alive and return faster lap times, would refill in 2-3mins, have better longevity on the brakes and tires.


All BEV Ms...

For context it's also valid BEVs are going to weigh quite a bit more, be more digital, be harder to refuel/charge in dynamic situations, less dynamic due to weight, have a shorter long term life expectancy, harder to repair, self drive and if it overheats and catches fire is going to result in the usage of a lot of water to put it out.

I'm all for use case. But in certain situations an EV doesn't make sense with today's tech. A few generations from now perhaps.

Track work, heavy duty applications, long haul and long term usage ICE is in for the win.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

I think that perspective of “fun to drive” changes with age of the owner. People in their low20s could have different perspectives on driving engagement then older generation. Comes down to preference. Seems like so called driving pleasure and enjoyment differes between age group. I am not about the numbers. But some are and I get it.
I’ve said it before and say that again. I’d rather have car that makes me smile every time I drive it for the duration of the trip rather than for 2,6s to 60.

I'm 49, could have bought an F80, didn't and bought two 911's in succession as weekend car. The daily during those times was a GTi and two Model 3's.

Now I've sold the Model 3, now the 911 and I'm getting a G80. So age doesn't matter as much as personal preference. To me, a G80 is far more engaging than an F80. It's also a better driver than an E92, although the E92 sounds way better. The E46...now we're getting somewhere but it's so much slower.

So yeah. progress is not always bad.

[bholler]

What’s wrong with a mild hybrid?

I would love something like in F1.

Obvious answer not “woke enough” but that would be a great car and fast.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I'm 49, could have bought an F80, didn't and bought two 911's in succession as weekend car. The daily during those times was a GTi and two Model 3's.

Now I've sold the Model 3, now the 911 and I'm getting a G80. So age doesn't matter as much as personal preference. To me, a G80 is far more engaging than an F80. It's also a better driver than an E92, although the E92 sounds way better. The E46...now we're getting somewhere but it's so much slower.

So yeah. progress is not always bad.

That G80 has a longer wheelbase than the E39 M5. 1-inch.

[JMD]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

That's is a value point...


However all fast EVs rely on raw power vs. light weight and handling dynamics. You have your outlayers Rimac.. But it does weight 5,000 lbs and has 1800hp. Put 1800hp in an twin turbo 911 GT3 RS (3300lbs) and it would eat any EV alive and return faster lap times, would refill in 2-3mins, have better longevity on the brakes and tires.


All BEV Ms...

For context it's also valid BEVs are going to weigh quite a bit more, be more digital, be harder to refuel/charge in dynamic situations, less dynamic due to weight, have a shorter long term life expectancy, harder to repair, self drive and if it overheats and catches fire is going to result in the usage of a lot of water to put it out.

I'm all for use case. But in certain situations an EV doesn't make sense with today's tech. A few generations from now perhaps.

Track work, heavy duty applications, long haul and long term usage ICE is in for the win.

Show me a 911 with 1800Hp,...that's affordable to folks in these Forum. I get the concerns of weight,...charging,...battery tech, etc., however, a day will come when a battery can be fully recharged as fast as one pours water into a glass! Faster charging,...less battery capacity needed in terms of cells! Also, the range of BEVs will surely vary as one may be able to select several different power levels. For instance, lets take a 1200Hp BEV M3,...or M5 and the BMW engineers allows for no less than some 5 to 7 different power levels!
As in:
100% = 1200Hp ---> 300 miles
90% = 1080Hp ---> 330 miles
75% = 900Hp ---> 375 miles
60% = 720Hp ---> 420 miles
50% = 600Hp ---> 450 miles
35% = 420Hp ---> 495 miles
25% = 300Hp ---> 525 miles

Naturally, the lower the power output level, the lower the power consumption, the higher the range!

I'd think this would be easy-peasy coding for BEVs!

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

There you go. Those theoretic ev fanboys trying to prove that it “can be done” or “is possible” or “with some planning “
are making me….��WE ARE NOT THERE YET. Until next generation of batteries is widely available evs will not be alternative to ice cars.

As I recently got an EV, this really proves me that the "problem" with EV adaption is resistance to change and ignorance.

I was ignorant and arrogant about EVs just like you. I went to the dealership with the intention of buying off my leased M340i. But when I've realized if I lease an almost fully loaded iX my lease payments would be like $900 for a car that has Rolls-Royce level comfort and X7 level luxury, I thought, why not, something new; let's give it a shot!

Now I'm realizing how pointless were my fears and my 'range anxiety'. And since I traded in my Renault Megane in 2008 for an E93 330i, I've never been this impressed with a new car that I got.

I've already put like 700 miles on the car in 2 weeks.
First of all, I didn't pay a DIME for charging as BMW gives free Electrify America charging, which I have 3 mins away from home.

As for long distance driving; I drove to NYC from Boston and back, and it was unquestionably the BEST road trip experience I've ever had in my life. First of all, there were multiple Electrify America DC chargers on the way. I made a 30-45 mins stop on my way to NYC, and another one on my way back. Both FREE. So no problem regarding charging. The drive? OMG! It's so quiet, so smooth, so comfortable that I became an EV smug right away. These vibrating dirty engines really look like a relic from old bad times now. Driving iX, it's almost like you're looking at all other cars on the road with pity. Especially seeing more expensive ICE cars; you fell like: "Oh these poor people if only they knew my experience, if only they weren't brainwashed". It's like you're on a completely different level; they're guzzling gas, puking smoke and vibrating and while you're just hovering over them in your spaceship. I mean I've been in smooth and quiet cars before, but this is at a completely different level. I always liked BMW's inline-6 and the sound it made; but this iX is so good at what it does, it's impossible to not be impressed.

Also, iX has the interior space of an X7, and the weight is also comparable to an X7. It drives better, it's faster, it has better balance than X5 and X7 in my experience; and steering is the same. If you look at my car history, you'd see that I have quite a bit of experience with these characteristics.

On top of all this, I'm discovering some other cool stuff about EV experience, particularly iX. As you don't need to run the engine for AC or heating, you can just run the heater or the AC and chill in the car for hours. With AC on, music playing, it would burn like 1.5 kW/hr approximately, which is 1.3% of the battery. Considering how amazing the interior of this car is with glass all around; you can take it to place with a beautiful view, sit in the giant lounge-like seats, turn on radiant heating, massage, ventilated seats; turn on music from awesome sound system, connect your laptop to the really fast charging ports, and chill for hours. I mean it's better than any office space, seriously.

So how are we not there yet? Where am I wrong?

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

As I recently got an EV, this really proves me that the "problem" with EV adaption is resistance to change and ignorance.

I was ignorant and arrogant about EVs just like you. I went to the dealership with the intention of buying off my leased M340i. But when I've realized if I lease an almost fully loaded iX my lease payments would be like $900 for a car that has Rolls-Royce level comfort and X7 level luxury, I thought, why not, something new; let's give it a shot!

Now I'm realizing how pointless were my fears and 'range anxiety'. And since I traded in my Renault Megan in 2008 for an E93 330i a, I've never been this impressed with a new car that I got.

I've already put like 700 miles on the car in 2 weeks.
First of all, I didn't pay a DIME for charging as BMW gives free Electrify America charging, which I have 3 mins away from home.

As for long distance driving; I drove to NYC from Boston and back, and it was unquestionably the BEST road trip experience I've ever had in my life. First of all, there were multiple Electrify America DC chargers on the way. I made a 30-45 mins stop on my way to NYC, and another one on my way back. Both FREE. So no problem regarding charging. I really don't understand the 'range anxiety' now. There's also chargers in my apartment complex, even though they're overpriced, it's still way cheaper than gas. And even if you hate all the environmentalists and regulations (I don't), even if you believe 3% of climate scientists (sold out or crazy ones) who say 'climate change is a hoax'; it's still cool to not pump exhaust gas in the [...]

Good for you. If it does it for you that’s great. Now as for ignorance. Are you calling ignorant everyone that doesn’t go with the flow or change or however you’d like to call it ? I am making educated decisions in life and if I would like to have ev I’d get it long ago. Other than the fact that I don’t have to fuel and quietness it doesn’t have ONE thing that I like. I hate all screen dash. I don’t like the fact that you have to dig into menus to change temperature. I don’t like the ride and I was never fan or new untested technologies. What’s more because of what my wife does I have first hands info on how those cars are built and what problems customers have with all the new tech. So yeah. Call me ignorant. I don’t hate ev. I hate those that are trying to tell me I need one.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by bholler

What’s wrong with a mild hybrid?

I would love something like in F1.

Obvious answer not “woke enough” but that would be a great car and fast.

This is what's wrong:

https://www.evo.co.uk/mercedes/c63/2...ce-2023-review

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

That G80 has a longer wheelbase than the E39 M5. 1-inch.

I know. That's why I bought one.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Good for you. If it does it for you that’s great. Now as for ignorance. Are you calling ignorant everyone that doesn’t go with the flow or change or however you’d like to call it ? I am making educated decisions in life and if I would like to have ev I’d get it long ago. Other than the fact that I don’t have to fuel and quietness it doesn’t have ONE thing that I like. I hate all screen dash. I don’t like the fact that you have to dig into menus to change temperature. I don’t like the ride and I was never fan or new technologies. What’s more because of what my wife does I have first hands info on how those cars are built and what problems customers have with all the new tech. So yeah. Call me ignorant. I don’t hate ev. I hate those that are trying to tell me I need one.

No, you keep spouting incorrect "facts" to justify your preference.

We get it. You don't like EV's. All you have to say is "I don't like EV's" and you are ENTIRELY entitled to your preference. No one is telling YOU that you need one. But stop trying to put up all these arguments that are factually incorrect to justify your personal preference. Just say:

"I don't like EV's."

no one here has tried to tell you that you need one, should get one, or have to get one.

There are plenty of things people do on this forum I disagree with. Questionable M Performance add ons. Ugly grilles, wheels, body kits, etc. Whatever. I don't say "that's dumb" or "that does nothing for performance". I just...move on.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Good for you. If it does it for you that’s great. Now as for ignorance. Are you calling ignorant everyone that doesn’t go with the flow or change or however you’d like to call it ? I am making educated decisions in life and if I would like to have ev I’d get it long ago. Other than the fact that I don’t have to fuel and quietness it doesn’t have ONE thing that I like. I hate all screen dash. I don’t like the fact that you have to dig into menus to change temperature. I don’t like the ride and I was never fan or new technologies. What’s more because of what my wife does I have first hands info on how those cars are built and what problems customers have with all the new tech. So yeah. Call me ignorant. I don’t hate ev. I hate those that are trying to tell me I need one.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

No, you keep spouting incorrect "facts" to justify your preference.

We get it. You don't like EV's. All you have to say is "I don't like EV's" and you are ENTIRELY entitled to your preference. No one is telling YOU that you need one. But stop trying to put up all these arguments that are factually incorrect to justify your personal preference. Just say:

I don't like EV's.

What statement is not factual ?

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

What statement is not factual ?

Check this post title. Is it factual ?

[msej449]

Cortexiphan I’m with you. Recently got an EV to complement my M235i Convertible. I don’t understand the negative attacks on anyone who dares to say EVs are worth considering. Any mention of EVs and cue the knee-jerk responses about weight, range, government conspiracy, lack of charge points, more weight, purchase premium, battery fires, aircon bringing you to a stop etc. etc. Most of them replies to assertions that people haven’t even made in the first place. No one is saying an EV works for everyone, or every driving situation will suit them, or that you can drive one across a remote wilderness, or would have one for track competition. After a while, giving the EV feedback from actual ownership gets tedious as the ill-informed posts roll in, usually from people who’ve never used one or who’s use case is conspicuously unsuited to one.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Not seeing what is "groundbreaking". Rivian is already selling quad motor EV's, with ecu that controls stability control, suspension, drivetrain.

But it's not ONE ECU.

That's what BMW is onto here and honestly what allows Teslas to be so seamless and good. Tesla makes all their own modules and programs the firmware. They don't supply massive amounts of controllers from Bosch, Continental, Magnetti Marelli, etc. They do it the hard way. But that allows all the firmware to be seamlessly integrated and is why they can do a full system software update in 15 minutes when it takes a Porsche Taycan a FULL DAY to do one connected to a computer and an ethernet connection.

BMW is on the right track here. If you look at recent vehicles, this has been the trend. Instead of the individual systems of brake, transmission, etc. reporting separately to the ECU, they are making one "chain of command" where all the vehicle dynamics computers all report to one ECU. Now, they are just combining it all into one computer PERIOD to enhance how fast things can be controlled.

I do think this is the first of it's kind unless I am mistaken.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

What statement is not factual ?

Let's start with your initial post I responded to where you said an EV could only last a lap.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Let's start with your initial post I responded to where you said an EV could only last a lap.

Prove it will be different.

[forcefed]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Yeah, I am not sure what Nurburgring records that plan on "demolishing"?

Re-read what it says, it'll demolish all nurburgring records set by m-powered cars, not every record set on the ring.