[414bhp]

Originally Posted by vt100

718 Spyder! 4.0 would give you plenty of power. And IMHO one of the best looking cars ever
PS: Or (if you can) Spyder RS!

I'd love to try the any of the 718 Spyders!

[414bhp]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I've got the answer!!! Get a 987.2 Cayman 6MT and a OG M2 DCT That's what I did. I had a 2016 M235 6MT that I did love, but turbo lag was a very real thing with the 6MT. The chassis in the M2 so much better buttoned down than the M235 in almost every situation and the N55 teamed with a DCT feels punchy and lag free unless you're under 4000rpms and holding the gear and then punch it. In daily driving and hard driving, it's hard to feel any lag. It feels much like an NA multi-cam V8 to me under full boil.

I do admit I'm overly biased to the Cayman. I also understand that many aren't into it for various reasons. Looks wise, I do think it looks a lot better in person and with a few minor exterior enhancements and a mild drop. The amount of rubber necking, thumbs up, and general attention it garners on a daily basis is perplexing. Do they not know it's a slow car

I like the BMW 1M so much more than the M2, mostly due to how connected if feeds with the steering and chassis feedback, that I'd have the 1M instead. But even with the 1M, I wanted a little more magic from the engine, like the E92 V8 has.

[414bhp]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

This. I'm on my 6th

Miata and Hellcat! You appreciate the full spectrum of driving pleasures!

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by 414bhp

But even with the 1M, I wanted a little more magic from the engine, like the E92 V8 has.

Make it happen!

[vt100]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

THis is why I think the Z4M is the answer. Op is not REALLY after a true classic, he wants some modernity. Straight 6, NA, short wheelbase, more playful than the Porsches etc. I don't see a downside.

While Z4M is absolutely tons of fun (and I have one and plan to keep it as long as I can) it doesn't come close to modern Porsches GT cars. Even GT4 / Spyder are at the next level comparing to Z4M not even mentioning GT3.. Stock Z4M feels like driving on a pillow after driving GT4

PS: the funny thing is that I had the very same feeling years ago when switching to Z4M after driving a regular 3 series (even E46 M3).

[W///]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

THis is why I think the Z4M is the answer. Op is not REALLY after a true classic, he wants some modernity. Straight 6, NA, short wheelbase, more playful than the Porsches etc. I don't see a downside.

All I can say is I'd thoroughly recommend it. Mine is high mileage and needs a ton of work, but it's one of those I'd still have a hard time selling it even though it's completely at the bottom of my priority list.

It's just mind blowing you can find a GOOD one for low $20k. Show me any other car that can do that, yet alone a BMW M. It just "feels" so incredibly special at all speeds.

Maybe it's because the car only serves 1 purpose. It sucks at being comfortable, fuel efficient, ect.... It's just fun.

I'm shocked their values haven't gone up more, especially the Roadsters.

Originally Posted by vt100

While Z4M is absolutely tons of fun (and I have one and plan to keep it as long as I can) it doesn't come close to modern Porsches GT cars. Even GT4 / Spyder are at the next level comparing to Z4M not even mentioning GT3.. Stock Z4M feels like driving on a pillow after driving GT4

PS: the funny thing is that I had the very same feeling years ago when switching to Z4M after driving a regular 3 series (even E46 M3).

So I've thought about this way too many times and all I can come back to is that while the GT4/Spyders are cool, they are not 5x more fun than the Z4M consider they cost ~30% of the price of those Porsches.

[clutchdj]

Any hard top 964 non turbo. Stay on top of valve adjustments & drive it as much as possible. Otherwise bullet proof super stout engine.

[NSXR]

My apologies for suggesting an MX-5 one more time, but a friend sent me this yesterday and I had never heard of it. Too bad it's so rare, but certainly something to shoot for if one is so inclined. Looks like just a different turbo, IC, and tune, and the work was carried out by Prodrive.

https://www.carthrottle.com/features...ful-miata-ever

[vt100]

Originally Posted by W///

So I've thought about this way too many times and all I can come back to is that while the GT4/Spyders are cool, they are not 5x more fun than the Z4M consider they cost ~30% of the price of those Porsches.

That I 100% agree with! Fun for money factor is much better for Z4M
And spending a bit extra on proper suspension and bushings/mounts would put it even closer.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by W///

So I've thought about this way too many times and all I can come back to is that while the GT4/Spyders are cool, they are not 5x more fun than the Z4M consider they cost ~30% of the price of those Porsches.

I don't understand the obsession of so many honing in on the halo Porsche's and such. Some of the best Porsches are the $15K-30K ones like the 987 Cayman and Boxster. You don't need, much less can use the power of a GT4 on the street where 99+% of Porsches live. Same applies to cars like the Z4M and such. They are perfect for almost all drivers and even occasional track use.

One of my Cayman friends bought a salvage title 80K miles 2008 Cayman 5MT Base with the 2.7 flat 6 for $4K. He replaced the front driver's side fender, the radiator support and radiator, the headlight, and some other parts from his totalled (also savaged titled, got for $5K) 2006 Boxster S and had the Cayman running for $5500. He's wrapping it himself (50% done). He'll have maybe $7K into that car. He has no issues making the car exactly the way he wants it. I have the same opinion with my Cayman. I'm making it my own.

He is an ex-Miata NA/NB club racer and swears that the Cayman/Boxsters are miles ahead of those cars in every sense of performance and dynamics. He loves Miatas but given the choice, he's all about the 987 chassis. He's raced much more powerful cars, but is in love with cars that can be driven hard on the street without trying to kill you.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I don't understand the obsession of so many honing in on the halo Porsche's and such. Some of the best Porsches are the $15K-30K ones like the 987 Cayman and Boxster. You don't need, much less can use the power of a GT4 on the street where 99+% of Porsches live. Same applies to cars like the Z4M and such. They are perfect for almost all drivers and even occasional track use.

The top dog performance models are not just a bigger/more powerful engine. They very often include suspension and chassis improvements, sometimes substantially so. Sure, you can probably retrofit some parts (M3 control arms into 328/335 anyone?) or go aftermarket on others and do even better, but some things would be expensive to practically impossible to apply on a base model car. A GT4 has the front suspension and steering rack from a GT3, for example. How much would it cost to retrofit to a base Cayman? More structural adhesive, more spot welds, different subframe pickup points, etc. Even little things like thinner glass, less sound deadening and stiffer bushings can drastically change the character of the car. All of these things will add up in time and money, and in the end you might pay more for an inferior product than if you ponied up for a GT4 to begin with.

That's why cars like the 911 T appeal so much - they bring all the goodies, just without the extra power (which I agree with you is completely unnecessary for the street). Sadly you can't typically pick and choose how you want your car.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I don't understand the obsession of so many honing in on the halo Porsche's and such. Some of the best Porsches are the $15K-30K ones like the 987 Cayman and Boxster. You don't need, much less can use the power of a GT4 on the street where 99+% of Porsches live. Same applies to cars like the Z4M and such. They are perfect for almost all drivers and even occasional track use.

I'm sure everyone has their own reason(s).
For me personally engine power is secondary, but suspension, steering, and feedback are the most important. And with these factors regular (non GT) P cars are not desirable to me. Even if I upgrade the suspension, steering will still stay the same. They are really nice, but frankly a bit boring to drive (still much better though than most modern cars).
GT4 in this regards is a perfectly balanced car out of the box. The precision and feedback it gives me are overwhelming. I know I can't use 70% of it's power on public roads but I don't need it, fun I'm getting from feeling the car is already enough.

Would I buy it given Z4M as an option... No! But it's mostly cost / repairability that would define my decision in this case. And you're right, I still can't fully enjoy Z4M on public roads (unless I take it to Germany ), same as for GT4. But for the same reason I mentioned above, I'm getting more than enough fun to justify keeping this car "forever".

PS: But with all that said, the answer is always Miata!

[BlkGS]

You can buy a hell of a lot of performance out of a Corvette for $20k, that will make the Z3M look silly.

That said, Z3M coupes are pretty cool. I can get liking them.

[KevinC]

Z4M roadster should definitely be considered for all the reasons others are pointing out. I've owned 2 Z4M coupes - one from new for 8 years, and another for 2 years that I'd still have if it hadn't been hit. It's an incredibly fun platform, and the Roadsters sell for criminally cheap, far less than equivalent coupe brings - which makes the Roadster an incredible buy, especially if that was someone's desired configuration.

This old Richard Hammond video from back in the day sums the car up nicely in comparison to a period Boxster S ...

[Alfisti]

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/f...-964a902688e5/

If this seller is legit and the claimed work checks out, this is a RAGING bargain. Swap out the wheels (i don't like them personally) and off you go for sweet fuck all investment.

Do it. Stop wondering and do it.

[Josh-PA]

Originally Posted by W///

All I can say is I'd thoroughly recommend it. Mine is high mileage and needs a ton of work, but it's one of those I'd still have a hard time selling it even though it's completely at the bottom of my priority list.

It's just mind blowing you can find a GOOD one for low $20k. Show me any other car that can do that, yet alone a BMW M. It just "feels" so incredibly special at all speeds.

Maybe it's because the car only serves 1 purpose. It sucks at being comfortable, fuel efficient, ect.... It's just fun.

I'm shocked their values haven't gone up more, especially the Roadsters.



So I've thought about this way too many times and all I can come back to is that while the GT4/Spyders are cool, they are not 5x more fun than the Z4M consider they cost ~30% of the price of those Porsches.

one of my favorite top gear reviews ever... Hammond totally captures the essence of the z4m. If you don't want to watch the whole thing, skip to the ~5:00min mark

Edit: lol sorry I didn't look up a couple of posts and see Kevin has already shared the review.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/f...-964a902688e5/

If this seller is legit and the claimed work checks out, this is a RAGING bargain. Swap out the wheels (i don't like them personally) and off you go for sweet fuck all investment.

Do it. Stop wondering and do it.

More or less turn key! Pricewise, definitely on the top end of the market but that is a hell of a lot of car!

No brainer in my opinion, and as I mentioned many times before, the Z4MR is the best value M by a million miles.

[NickyC]

Z4M Roadster, still my favorite BMW of all time.

[Alfisti]

I am half thinking about selling my 997 (it's complicated), I won't though because I love the car and it just looks more like a sports car than the Z4 but man i'd be all over that.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I am half thinking about selling my 997 (it's complicated), I won't though because I love the car and it just looks more like a sports car than the Z4 but man i'd be all over that.

You're a fool!

Cash out on that 997 and get the Z4M. That one checks literally every box. Perfect color combo, extensive records, low miles... That's the sort of car that tempts someone who doesn't even want that kind of car lol.

[Alfisti]

I don't want black, my sports cars have to be blue, yellow or red. But the long list of work this guy has done is COMPELLING.

I need the back seat for now, lots of trips are with my two kids with big bloke up front and small bloke behind him. And the 997 looks like sex, every time i park it I turn around and smirk but if I do decide to bail it'll likely be replaced by a Z4. It just feels special in a way the Z4 never will.

Also that's a $55K car to me with exchange/GST/import fee but tbh about the right price regardless.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/f...-964a902688e5/

If this seller is legit and the claimed work checks out, this is a RAGING bargain. Swap out the wheels (i don't like them personally) and off you go for sweet fuck all investment.

Do it. Stop wondering and do it.

If I only didn't already have 5 cars...