[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

The board of directors at BMW is about as confused as to what’s an M and what’s not an M as everyone else, so they count them together as it looks better to the bean counters… 🫘

Come on, the more “M”s on a car, the more M it is!

[Th3DarkSide]

🍿

These threads are Bimmerpost gold!

[Dgjo2022X5MC]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

So it's only engine? Not suspension or interior?

Really?

Not what I meant to imply.

Of course suspension, m-diff, transmission, technology, seats, colors and all the other elements of the M recipe make a M car.

I’m just suggesting you could categorize ‘true’ M’ from M-lite/M-Perf/M-Sport/M-Badged based off the engine being a S variant over N/B types. For the most part.

[bucketfoot]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

So you’re saying my x7 40i with M badges all over it doesn’t count?!? And how about our iX M60 with 610 HP and 811 lb-ft/1100 nM ???



*Only true M say M first in the moniker with one number after them or perhaps an X#M. Period.*

If I cared, I'd say that an M car first and foremost has to be a car. No SUVs. From there it would only be M with a single digit number.

But I don't care.

In fact I don't see why BMW didn't call my 230i with the M Sport package an M230, given that they put 11 M logos on the car from the factory (12 if you count the electronic one in the main display).

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by bucketfoot

If I cared, I'd say that an M car first and foremost has to be a car. No SUVs. From there it would only be M with a single digit number.

But I don't care.

In fact I don't see why BMW didn't call my 230i with the M Sport package an M230, given that they put 11 M logos on the car from the factory (12 if you count the electronic one in the main display).

I would say the X5M is a ballistic missile and qualifies as a true M

But I also understand the argument

That said, you could argue the M5 is too big or the M8 is too grand tourer

At the end of the day if M does their thing they take the model series and amp it up to 100. To me, that’s M by definition

But let’s be honest the XM is not an M
And neither is my iX
And the branding is completely out of control
And to now classify all that sub M stuff as M sales… a travesty

[Ohio Enthusiast]

I always felt Audi did it best - S models for the mid-tier sporty models, and RS models for the top dog sporty models (Porsche might be even better with the Base, S, GTS, GT3/4 progression, but you probably need to be a Porschephile to follow along (and to figure out how the Turbo models branch out)). BMW and Mercedes painted themselves into a corner with only offering M and AMG for top dog, leaving nothing to market the mid-tier except a bigger number (328i->335i, C200->C350, etc.). BMW at least has an easy nomenclature to distinguish M-Performance to full M (with just the model number for full M (M340i vs M3)); Mercedes just use a smaller number, which doesn't work well cross models (A45 is a full AMG, but C43 is AMG-lite). With Audi's way they also did S-Line which is purely cosmetic on the bottom-tier cars, without diluting the RS brand.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Jd19

Are there not more differences between an X3 M40i and 30i? At least with an X5/X7 you can get a M50/60 with DHP which makes a big difference.

Agreed with the overall sentiment of not counting M-lites as ‘real’ M cars. Was hoping that the M division at least dialed M lite cars in a little better than just engine and brakes. My iX M60 handles vastly better than an iX 50 without DHP. Have not had the chance to drive an iX 50 with DHP but you would think there would be some differences outside of the powertrain and brakes, similar to what Porsche does with its GTS models.

no difference except brakes and engine... on the g01 you could get the adap susp or dhp which was identical to m40i... again, i dont feel good about a 250 hp car and one w 382 and almost equal torque to have the same suspension... its nonsense... but hey, my car has an m sticker on it lol... mind u i had an m2 comp and know what a real m car is

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Uhh no... the x3 30i as an example can have an identical suspension, steering rack and virtually everything as the m40i... w the sole difference being engine and brakes.... that engine is also available on a non m sport X5... so where is this so called M sportness? The X3M has an M engine, different steering rack, different suspension, different wheels, different traction / stability setup... there is a HUGE difference and it takes one hard turn into a corner to see the difference.

You're looking at unique or bespoke parts as a differentiator while I'm talking about tuning and setup for a specific model from BMW's perspective or business model. Just because the B58 is used in a M340 and as well as a base X5 40i, doesn't make the M340i any less a "M Performance" model.

Maybe you guys have different build setups in the U.S. than Canada but if we take the G45 X3 for example, there is no "performance" options you can put on the X3 30 to build it identical to a X3 M50 making the latter a lot more different than the base. Even with the G02 X4 (which I would assume applies to the G01 X3) and the packages/options available for that generation, there is no option to add a sportier suspension on the 30i which I assume has a "base or passive sport suspension" vs. Adaptive M suspension on the M40i with the option of getting a M Sport differential.

I don't care how BMW uses the "BMW M" or "M" name, to me it's all just a trim level that provides "more" things over the trim below it in a certain class. But my point remains, and to the original post I was replying to where the it asks why "M Sport" in the past isn't considered the same as "M Performance" today, from the EXX to GXX, models, BMW is moving in a direction where they are positioning the M40i/M50/M60 trims to be different than the base models.

And just so everyone sees where I'm coming from and how I interpreted the original comment, when referring to a M Sport BMW, I'm thinking this is what they meant which is completely different than what we call M Performance BMW's today.

ZKJ M Sport Package
2MF 18" M Star Spoke Alloy Wheels - Style 193M Performance Run-Flat Tires: 225/40 R 18 & 255/35 R 18
337 M Sport Package: M Sport Steering Wheel, M Aerodynamic Package, M Shift Knob (Manual Only), M Footrest, High-gloss Shadow Line, Anthracite Roof Liner, Aluminum Glacier Silver Trim

[Ev0lutionx]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

I would say the X5M is a ballistic missile and qualifies as a true M

But I also understand the argument

That said, you could argue the M5 is too big or the M8 is too grand tourer

At the end of the day if M does their thing they take the model series and amp it up to 100. To me, that’s M by definition

But let’s be honest the XM is not an M
And neither is my iX
And the branding is completely out of control
And to now classify all that sub M stuff as M sales… a travesty

This 👆🏻

Couldn’t have put it any better.

[eman4517]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

You're looking at unique or bespoke parts as a differentiator while I'm talking about tuning and setup for a specific model from BMW's perspective or business model. Just because the B58 is used in a M340 and as well as a base X5 40i, doesn't make the M340i any less a "M Performance" model.

Maybe you guys have different build setups in the U.S. than Canada but if we take the G45 X3 for example, there is no "performance" options you can put on the X3 30 to build it identical to a X3 M50 making the latter a lot more different than the base. Even with the G02 X4 (which I would assume applies to the G01 X3) and the packages/options available for that generation, there is no option to add a sportier suspension on the 30i which I assume has a "base or passive sport suspension" vs. Adaptive M suspension on the M40i with the option of getting a M Sport differential.

I don't care how BMW uses the "BMW M" or "M" name, to me it's all just a trim level that provides "more" things over the trim below it in a certain class. But my point remains, and to the original post I was replying to where the it asks why "M Sport" in the past isn't considered the same as "M Performance" today, from the EXX to GXX, models, BMW is moving in a direction where they are positioning the M40i/M50/M60 trims to be different than the base models.

And just so everyone sees where I'm coming from and how I interpreted the original comment, when referring to a M Sport BMW, I'm thinking this is what they meant which is completely different than what we call M Performance BMW's today.

[b]ZKJ M Sport [...]

Yes, I'm in alignment with the M Sport package, that makes sense. My wife actually has it on her U11 X1 and its tastefully done and she actually preferred it to the X3 at the time (2023). It's like the M Sport packages of past with rockers, sport seats and black grilles and certain paints. I had several cars with that package over the years, however, in the past few years, it's getting too diluted.

M mirrors, carbon roof, flat steering wheels on an 8 series and M logos on the model? Yes, Mercedes is recently guilty of that too. My wife had a C450 AMG Sport sedan, now it's a straight up C43 AMG (or CLE now I guess). Not a hand built engine.

Hopefully BMW comes out with some interesting and intriguing models in the next couple of years; everything looks the same these day with no soul. If so, then maybe a CPO V8 Aston Vantage next...

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by eman4517

Yes, I'm in alignment with the M Sport package, that makes sense. My wife actually has it on her U11 X1 and its tastefully done and she actually preferred it to the X3 at the time (2023). It's like the M Sport packages of past with rockers, sport seats and black grilles and certain paints. I had several cars with that package over the years, however, in the past few years, it's getting too diluted.

M mirrors, carbon roof, flat steering wheels on an 8 series and M logos on the model? Yes, Mercedes is recently guilty of that too. My wife had a C450 AMG Sport sedan, now it's a straight up C43 AMG (or CLE now I guess). Not a hand built engine.

Hopefully BMW comes out with some interesting and intriguing models in the next couple of years; everything looks the same these day with no soul...

That's all I'm really saying. It's easily understandable why BMW would consider a M35i/M40i/M50/M60 as BMW M cars for reporting purposes and not a BMW that's optioned with M Sport Package - they're two drastically different things if we're talking about BMW's.

[Nahlem]

Not surprised about the i4 m50 being a top seller still again not surprised that those saying its only because of this and that and so on and so forth but in the end its is a proper good car like it or not M or not it is a very capable car it can be fun when you want it to but it aint no track car and it can be a perfect cruiser when you want it to, it is simply the jack of all trades master of none.

And once again it is proven that if you make a car that is the jack of all trades it will sell simple as that. And the coming years it will be even better value for money when they decide to phase it out.

And talking out of experience and owning it, it was a great car perfect for daily commuting, good for long travels with plenty of leg space and a good boot, and when wanting to have some fun without killing your self it delivered on that. So M or not it is as close as we get to a proper EV M for now, until Neue class arrives the i4 is the choice when looking at EVs.

[Shawn Tsao]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

The link does not work for me. Is the 10% real M cars like M5 or does it include the watered down versions like M550i?

The figure for what you called real M cars is 66,805 last year.

[Igor_M5]

Sxx engines = true M, that became null when the 1M dropped w n54, followed by og M2

M Suspension = true M, hardly credible since G-gen. 🫤 Most rear ends on M cars are now fitted with (mainly) non-M arms & bushings, and don’t even get me started w/ Axles 😔

Tbh…

I think Drivelogic is the present thick white chalk line between real modern M and Meh models. For starters, M lite owners don’t even know what it is 😂

Fact: every M post-00’s is rooted around Drivelogic

Fact: LSD = M. MxDrive = M

If you really wanna get deep and factual, it’s with the inception of ZF, that set next narrative to evolve (aka dissolve) “Motorsport Insired” into what became a race to make one fit all cuz that = more profit, which = more bitches, and we all know bitches cause problems.

Ps, should I write a book ? 🫣

[crypto]

“M cars”

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by geddylee

The only reason the I4M50 has sold well is due to the highly subsizdized leases, supported by tax credits. Once those go away, you no longer have a winner on your hands and more buyers would likely prefer the M340i, all things being equal.

There are plenty of people who bought the I4 M50 when there were no subsidies. With a 3.3 sec 0-60mph time and yet smooth air susp ride with adaptive shocks, the i4 M50 is definitely not a down grade from a 340i. It also has shown equivalent or better stopping distances as an M3, pulls .91g and beat a M240i on a Korean road course. The i4 M50 is perfect for those of us that like to drive fast in silence without attracting law enforcement.

[IanH]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

There are plenty of people who bought the I4 M50 when there were no subsidies. With a 3.3 sec 0-60mph time and yet smooth air susp ride with adaptive shocks, the i4 M50 is definitely not a down grade from a 340i. It also has shown equivalent or better stopping distances as an M3, pulls .91g and beat a M240i on a Korean road course. The i4 M50 is perfect for those of us that like to drive fast in silence without attracting law enforcement.

Yes and you can drive a whole 16 miles utilizing that performance before you need to fully recharge.... lol

And it can only get full performance for 4 miles!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by NSXR

I don't think so. "M" has just come to mean "increased performance over the base model." So in that light it's not a scam, it's just providing increased performance without having to buy a much more expensive, and difficult to deal with true M-Car.

That used to be just called the "sport package" option. M is for Marketing.

[StickShiftEV]

I sincerely hope that BMW cars and SUVs with “M Sport” package are not included in those figures? (M Sport as in having sportier-looking bumpers or beefier suspension or braking system)

[M2M3M3]

M was for MotorSPORTS.

the last true M car was the E30 M3.

A Race car toned down for the street.

All M's since have been have been street cars with extra parts.

[ellipsis212]

Mostly made up of i2 xM20i sales.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by M2M3M3

M was for MotorSPORTS.

the last true M car was the E30 M3.

A Race car toned down for the street.

All M's since have been have been street cars with extra parts.

Actually, all BMW cars, save for the M1, were/are designed as street cars with varying levels of of sport/race-car bits added later for the sport/race minded.

The E30 M3 differs from a G80 M3 primarily because of the era in which it was produced. Cars were significantly lighter 40 years ago, and that's the real difference in the two cars.

Like you, I much prefer the older, lighter, more raw M cars to the new M cars, but that's a personal thing. It comes down to what you want from your M car; outright performance or feel.