[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

Lol. Arguing about a 4000 lbs and a 5000 lbs cars ring times? Probably 2% of G cars ever see a track and less than that for a Tesla. Make sure you get the CF roof also. It shaves off 2 seconds

For most people this is to the point. if money is no object and being first matters most, then there is always something new.

ICE lovers can unite in hate against EVs finally. Just like Chevy vs Ford in the good old days. The more things change...

Imagine an all Tesla car show.

[Norbimmer]

I am sure people were saying the same thing when cars took over from horses, naah, that car is heavy, it smells weird, only fast on pavement but if you take out in the outback it is useless Imagine the forums on ”Stallionpost” if there would have been Internet back then, the flaming and horsesh*t thrown on cars…
Every big technology step comes with sceptiscism, but I have full confidence EVs will and can be just as exciting, fun and with a new performance level. Why wouldn’t they? technology will advance in all areas and we will see some fantastic cars full of excitement.
No, I am not a fan of touch screens and I do love ICE cars, we just need to have some faith. We are still in early stages of EVs.

[ctelimad]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Not everyone…

Beast mode lasts less than 5 or 10 minutes….perhaps that’s enough for you.

I am one of the first to buy one lol
I wish they have an M5 full EV or M3 full EV would live one as a daily
Keep the fun cars for the weekend

[robopp]

One positive is that the old F80/2 discounts/lease support will be back! I miss those days.

[Panscan340]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

How did it perform in the second lap?

Ya bc so many people are sending their M cars multiple laps in a row. Tiny fractions of M cars ever see track but let’s get into more and more niche situations.

The point is EVs can perform on the track

[Teutonic]

The Ultimate Electric Appliance…

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

What the EVs lose in handling agility, they more than make up with throttle agility (instant torque, responsiveness). The way the throttle is directly connected to the g-forces pushing you in the seat make most ICE cars seem laggy in comparison. Throttle response is something you can enjoy when driving on every street, every day. If the handling is good enough to beat the ICE M3 around the Nurburgring, then the handling is more than good enough for the street. For those that believe that nostalgic feel and experience are everything.... are the same people that would stay with a slow manual transmission because it "feels" better rather than a modern performance automated transmission.

I think that you are missing the point. A manual transmission is about the feeling, the control and the decision when to shift to adopt a certain style of driving. Is about the human-machine synergy when the machine listen to the driver and the driver knows the limits of the machine.
Slow? Not everything is about speed which in a sinuous road has the same limitations as the manual. The absolute physical involvement in a real “driver’s road” with challenging chicanes is irrepleacable.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

First cars looked like carriage horses on wheels.
Back minded, dim people of that era said: "Look at these sheep. They can't simulate the connection with the animal, the beautiful smell of horse shit"

This isn’t BMW’s first car, yet the quality has declined to a worrying level. Not sure what you’re trying to say.

And the first carriage never intended to neigh like a horse anyway…

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

I think that you are missing the point. A manual transmission is about the feeling, the control and the decision when to shift to adopt a certain style of driving. Is about the human-machine synergy when the machine listen to the driver and the driver knows the limits of the machine.
Slow? Not everything is about speed which in a sinuous road has the same limitations as the manual. The absolute physical involvement in a real “driver’s road” with challenging chicanes is irrepleacable.

For those craving the "feeling", a sub 3000lb Miata or Lotus will provide a better "experience " than any BMW on that "driver's road." And they too feel no regret when the EVs slaughter them every day on the freeway on ramp. Better yet, if you want a pure weekend track experience, get yourself a high performance go-kart for a whole new level of fun. Different people, different priorities.

[LuckyBrand]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Never thought I'd agree, but with new BMWs being horribly overpriced and even worse looking, I might check a Tesla out if I need another car. Performance for the price cannot be beat, and I think they even look better the current BMW lineup (which isn't a big ask honestly).

It is hard to argue price vs performance between the 2 especially when BMW also continues to dumb down the interior materials etc.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Panscan340

Ya bc so many people are sending their M cars multiple laps in a row. Tiny fractions of M cars ever see track but let’s get into more and more niche situations.

The point is EVs can perform on the track

So can a VW bus

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by Schn3ll

Speed in an EV is a rarely used party trick -

Same for ICE. Except maybe if near an autobahn. At the end of the day, 99.9% of the time we’re all speed limited to what the sign says. And even if one breaks that limit, they’re not doing sustained triple digits.

[rmmiii]

Hypothetical time - set aside all the ice vs bev stuff and ask what would get you excited.

Current m3 (I own a ‘21 and track it sometimes).
>3500ish lbs, >500ish hp, ~480 lb ft. Normal range very sensitive to your right foot. Let’s say 325 mi.
Track time of less than 30-40 min per tank - about 2 longer sessions before distracting warning lights at my local track.

model 3 performance is around 4k lbs. i4 m50 is 5k lbs from what I can tell.

I have not tracked either. I did do an autocross in my 2013 model s a long time ago. While not terribly quick because the thing was not really intended for that, it was hilarious fun with rwd and traction control fully off - many cones were sacrificed. More recently, I did a session where bmw hosted autocross for their electric i4 sedans. That also was pretty fun and a little less hilarious and a bit more serious. Instant torque is instant torque. Slow in and fast out.

Back to the hypothetical: Current power to weight of m3 is a little over 7 lb per hp.

Hypothetical 2028ish m3 bev time:[LIST][*]Gonna be heavy: 4,300 lb? More?[*]Gonna have 4 motors: 700 hp, similar lb ft? More?[*]Power to weight: noticeable decrease in lb / hp

[DrVenture]

Let's not overlook that ICE has had 100 years to mature. Serious development of BEV are only about a decade in. Already went from tiny cars with 80 miles range to regular vehicles of all sorts with over 200 miles usable range.

The advantages of EVs are hard to dispute. Weight distribution. Traction. Low center of gravity. Torque. All that remains is forward advancement in battery tech, and it will be game over.

If I know car guys, they are going to be all over the fastest and latest, no matter what they say today.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Schn3ll

What’s the value prop for this? Dull, lifeless speed is much cheaper with a Tesla.

Speed is NEVER dull, nor lifeless!

Originally Posted by Teutonic

I think that you are missing the point. A manual transmission is about the feeling[...]
Slow? Not everything is about speed which in a sinuous road has the same limitations as the manual.

If you are pining for slow cars with lots of feeling, then you should have stopped looking at BMW dealerships ~20 years ago.

A few new sports cars are still available that deliver on that value proposition - Miata and GR86 come to mind. The sales of both have been in decline for years.

Originally Posted by Schn3ll

This will be yet another overhyped EV flop destined for big dealer discounts.

I hope you are right (doubtful) - 'cause then I will be able to snag one at a discount!


a

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by rmmiii

...[*]Power to weight: noticeable decrease in lb / hp

But massive increase in putting the power down, if they do it right. Some pretty heavy vehicles are doing pretty good right now. That flat EV torque curve cannot be overlooked, either.

I know that a lot of companies have (over) promised big advancements in solid state batteries, but once that happens, the whole weight, range, charge time situation is likely to be a game changer.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

So can a VW bus

What factory stock VW bus can perform a near 7 minute Nurburgring time?

[TR930]

When going beyond the need to go point A to point B, a special car should be about creating an emotional response. Really good ones can create a unique emotional response. I feel this will do that for a section of the populace, maybe not quite the same historical group as before. For those people, there are used ICE M vehicles to choose from to scratch that itch. For the "purists", it doesn't get more pure than what was already considered "pure".

ICE cars were reaching the limits of power and efficiency, I welcome further development of hybrid and EV vehicles. Suspect BMW will take alot of engineering knowledge and develop a gem of an "experience" at a price point that will still maintain a level of exclusivity as well.

We don't have to be petrol purists, it's about the purity of the driving experience. There is new ground to cover and it's exciting to see what BMW comes up with next.

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by TR930

...Suspect BMW will take alot of engineering knowledge and develop a gem of an "experience" at a price point that will still maintain a level of exclusivity as well.

...

We can count on that.

[rlampare]

Originally Posted by Masander

Sheep want to enjoy their fake leather (plastic) seats with fake engine sounds while scrolling one ugly ass ipad glued to the dashboard nowadays thats why.

Naaa’aa’aa’aaa

[jamesanderson]

Oh, what a beautiful car

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

What factory stock VW bus can perform a near 7 minute Nurburgring time?

"Perform" was never defined.