[hks786]

Originally Posted by infinitekid2002

Who are "they"?

America, Britain.

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by hks786

America, Britain.

Those bastards and "their" interests.

We are not Satan..we just have a bad habit of trying to police the world..and it's cost this country and its citizens big time.

[AU335i]

drop the bombs, then prepare for zombie apocalypse!


already got my defense strategy:



lulz.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by infinitekid2002

Those bastards and "their" interests.

We are not Satan..we just have a bad habit of trying to police the world..and it's cost this country and it's citizens big time.

I couldn't agree more with this statement... the further we go down this path, the more it will cost our country. It's already cost us given up freedoms, world hatred, a down turned economy after a terrorist attack, and millions spent on near useless wars or wars that should have been ended years ago.

[M3Bahn]

Originally Posted by BMWinNorthdakota

Get.... out.

?

[M3Bahn]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I couldn't agree more with this statement... the further we go down this path, the more it will cost our country. It's already cost us given up freedoms, world hatred, a down turned economy after a terrorist attack, and millions spent on near useless wars or wars that should have been ended years ago.

[ScaredOnce]

Originally Posted by Blake

[...]
time to drop the bomb already.

I concur.

Originally Posted by hks786

Is this information as reliable as the intelligence that told us Iraq had WMD?

America accuse everyone of something but that doesn't mean it's factual. For all we know this is part of Americas continuous efforts to isolate Iran from the rest of the world. Iran is not allowed to develop a nuclear programme which they claim is peaceful while Israel, America, Britain, Pakistan etc. are allowed to have known nuclear weapons.

Double standards.

Yes. They are called double standards. I'm not sure why we need to act like it's gradeschool and the teach said that's bad. They need to be stopped. It will unfortunately not be pretty and likely happen soon.

You guys will be on board... you need to revitalize your defense spending too.

Originally Posted by Seminole

We used two bombs that are hundreds of times less powerful than any in existence today to end a world war. If we had to invade mainland Japan the war would have never ended considering the fight they put up on Iwo Jima and Okinawa. And those two times were enough to scare the shit out of us. The only reason we even have near the level of bombs we have today is because of the whole "mutually assured destruction" crap from the cold war.

I honestly believe that we'd never ever use the bomb again unless it was in some type of cold war style mass nuclear attack against the US and the only option we had was to launch a nuclear attack in response.

Even if Iran got a bomb and gave it to terrorists and it was used against us, we'd use conventional weapons against them in retaliation. Your talking at most 1, maybe 2, small dirty bomb type attacks and I can't see the US launching a nuclear war in response to that. The consequences from Hiroshima and Nagasaki were enough that there would never be support for dropping the bomb.

There is also no good reason for Iran to have nuclear power. It's not like they have massive energy needs that can only be met with nuclear, and conventional type of power is more than sufficient. Hell, they are sitting on a goldmine of oil, why not use all of that to run the power plants?

We may not need to ever strike Iran. They have a small neighbor who'll likely do it for us. If Tel Aviv was struck by any significant attack (conventional or otherwise), they would light up Tehran in a heartbeat.


Worse days are ahead than behind.

[Turbo>NA]

Originally Posted by persian54

...

soltani time

[Turbo>NA]

Originally Posted by AU335i

drop the bombs, then prepare for zombie apocalypse!


already got my defense strategy:



lulz.

Are you dumb..

Zombies have infiniti stamina and will never stop running. Food runs out, then?

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by ScaredOnce

I concur.



Yes. They are called double standards. I'm not sure why we need to act like it's gradeschool and the teach said that's bad. They need to be stopped. It will unfortunately not be pretty and likely happen soon.

You guys will be on board... you need to revitalize your defense spending too.




We may not need to ever strike Iran. They have a small neighbor who'll likely do it for us. If Tel Aviv was struck by any significant attack (conventional or otherwise), they would light up Tehran in a heartbeat.


Worse days are ahead than behind.

I think that right there would almost guarantee another world war. The US would be put in an amazingly awkward situation.

[ScaredOnce]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I think that right there would almost guarantee another world war. The US would be put in an amazingly awkward situation.

Unfortunately, I do not disagree with you.

I wonder how Russia and China may react to the "opportunity".

[AU335i]

Originally Posted by Turbo>NA

Are you dumb..

Zombies have infiniti stamina and will never stop running. Food runs out, then?

[335fourdoor]

i'm impressed by high level of intellegence on this board. However, strategy of US getting into Afganistan and Irag was mainly to get next to Iran. Iran was always the prize. Somebody mentioned earlier that all this was is a chess game. well the end game is near.

[BMWinNorthdakota]

Originally Posted by 335fourdoor

i'm impressed by high level of intellegence on this board. However, strategy of US getting into Afganistan and Irag was mainly to get next to Iran. Iran was always the prize. Somebody mentioned earlier that all this was is a chess game. well the end game is near.

we are all edumucated duh

[M3Bahn]

Originally Posted by ScaredOnce

Unfortunately, I do not disagree with you.

I wonder how Russia and China may react to the "opportunity".

They are probably looking for an excuse to team up on our ass.

[M3Bahn]

Originally Posted by 335fourdoor

i'm impressed by high level of intellegence on this board. However, strategy of US getting into Afganistan and Irag was mainly to get next to Iran. Iran was always the prize. Somebody mentioned earlier that all this was is a chess game. well the end game is near.

This was all planned before 9/11.


Project for the New American Century

The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C.. It was co-founded as a non-profit educational organization by neoconservatives William Kristol and Robert Kagan. The PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership."[1] Fundamental to the PNAC were the view that "American leadership is both good for America and good for the world" and support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."[2] The PNAC exerted influence on high-level U.S. government officials in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush and affected the Bush Administration's development of military and foreign policies, especially involving national security and the Iraq War.[3][4]

In relation to the Persian Gulf, citing particularly Iraq and Iran, Rebuilding America's Defenses states that "while the unresolved conflict in Iraq provides the immediate justification [for U.S. military presence], the need for a substantial American force presence in the [Persian] Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein" and "Over the long term, Iran may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests in the [Persian] Gulf as Iraq has. And even should U.S.-Iranian relations improve, retaining forward-based forces in the region would still be an essential element in U.S. security strategy given the longstanding American interests in the region."[13]
One of the core missions outlined in the 2000 report Rebuilding America's Defenses is "fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars."[4][17

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project...erican_Century

[Turbo>NA]

Originally Posted by M3Bahn

This was all planned before 9/11.


Project for the New American Century

The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C.. It was co-founded as a non-profit educational organization by neoconservatives William Kristol and Robert Kagan. The PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership."[1] Fundamental to the PNAC were the view that "American leadership is both good for America and good for the world" and support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."[2] The PNAC exerted influence on high-level U.S. government officials in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush and affected the Bush Administration's development of military and foreign policies, especially involving national security and the Iraq War.[3][4]

In relation to the Persian Gulf, citing particularly Iraq and Iran, Rebuilding America's Defenses states that "while the unresolved conflict in Iraq provides the immediate justification [for U.S. military presence], the need for a substantial American force presence in the [Persian] Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein" and "Over the long term, Iran may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests in the [Persian] Gulf as Iraq has. And even should U.S.-Iranian relations improve, retaining forward-based forces in the region would still be an essential element in U.S. security strategy given the longstanding American interests in the region."[13]
One of the core missions outlined in the 2000 report Rebuilding America's Defenses is "fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars."[4][17

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project...erican_Century

so 9/11 happened as an answer back to the U.S. for planning to take over the enire middle east?

[BMWinNorthdakota]

Originally Posted by M3Bahn

They are probably looking for an excuse to team up on our ass.

oh shit... What if? We'd probably be fucked.

lets dumb this convo down a bit folks... Tl;dr on almost every post.

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by hks786

The thing is though we are starting with an assumption that Iran is a threat. Why is it a threat that Iran MAY acquire weapons when we know countries DO have them (Israel, U.S., UK etc.) These few countries I have named are killing people in the world as we speak! Also, we don't even have proof Iran is developing weapons and let's not forget when we did have "proof" about WMD in Iraq it turned out to be lies.

I don't know why people can't see what's REALLY going on in the world.

Because Iran IS a threat.

You have a radical out of touch leader in charge who denies history, opresses his own people, threatens his neighbors with destruction, etc. The guy rigs elections so he wins. The entire international community condems him and world leaders at the UN walk out on his speeches because of how insane his ramblings are.

Do you deny any of that?

If you agree then why would you want Iran to possess nuclear power? Now there might not be 100% proof that it is for military purposes, but their leader's rhetoric is enough to cause concern if they do possess such power. Once they have it there's no going back. So why wait and find out after they already possess it that the real intention was to make a bomb when you can put an end to it now.

All the horrible people throught history, Hitler, Osama bin Laden, Stalin, etc. have started off with saber rattling and rhetoric. Eventually it turns into action. Osama bin Laden was just some pissed off dude in a cave, angry that the Saudi's didn't want his help during the first Gulf war and that they would let the American's use their country to launch attacks. Hindsight shows that what started off as ramblings turned into small jabs like training the milita that shot down the helicopters in Mogadishu and bombings of embassies. Then it turned into a truck bomb on the WTC and the bombing of a Navy ship. Finally it turned into 9/11. Why are you content with waiting around until Ahmajenidad potentially gets a bomb and then it's too late? I'm not saying we should attack them, but it definitely is not in the best interest of the world as a whole if they had a bomb.

And your comment about countries that do have the bomb are killing people around the world is irrelivant. It's not like the US is zipping around the Middle East dropping nukes on people's heads. The fact the US has nukes has nothing to do with anything. We don't even use them. Some small country shunned by the world with a pissed off crackpot for a leader might though.

Also, you talk as if the US goal in Afghanistan and Iraq is the killing of civilians (you mentioned how nobody cares about the civilians in a previous post). You do realize the vast majority of civilan deaths are at the hands of terrorists who bomb mosques, shopping plazas, busses, etc. in order to strike fear into the civilians and turn them against the US? The soldiers aren't walking up and down the street mowing down children. Has the US killed civlians? Absolutely. But never with the pure intention of doing so. But this is what we run into when we try and nation build. If we had just gone into Afghanistan, leveled the place and taken out the Taliban and Al Qaeda and then left there wouldn't be any of the nonsense going on now. Instead we tried to actually help by setting up a working Government, schools, roads, infrastructure, etc. It worked for Japan, Germany and Italy after WW2. Look how they all went from bombed out countries full of rubble to 50+ years later having prospering economies (except for the last few years). The problem is with the terrorists and insurgents who blend into the population and hide RPG's in children's bedrooms etc. The people of Iraq and Afghanistan need to stand up and expose the insurgents, stop giving them safe haven, etc and a lot of the problems would go away.

But back to the main point. If Iran isn't a threat then Ahmajenidad need to prove it by quiting his ramblings, hold free (non rigged) elections, stop censorship, stop political arrests, etc. etc. Until that happens Iran and Ahmajenidad are a threat based off their rhetoric and actions.

[M3Bahn]

Originally Posted by Turbo>NA

so 9/11 happened as an answer back to the U.S. for planning to take over the enire middle east?

Well oddly enough it contains this, now remember this was before 9/11.



New Pearl Harbor"
Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" (51).[13]
Though not arguing that Bush administration PNAC members were complicit in those attacks, other social critics such as commentator Manuel Valenzuela and journalist Mark Danner,[39][40][41] investigative journalist John Pilger, in New Statesman,[42] and former editor of The San Francisco Chronicle Bernard Weiner, in CounterPunch,[43] all argue that PNAC members used the events of 9/11 as the "Pearl Harbor" that they needed––that is, as an "opportunity" to "capitalize on" (in Pilger's words), in order to enact long-desired plans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project...erican_Century

[335fourdoor]

Originally Posted by M3Bahn

This was all planned before 9/11.


Project for the New American Century

The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C.. It was co-founded as a non-profit educational organization by neoconservatives William Kristol and Robert Kagan. The PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership."[1] Fundamental to the PNAC were the view that "American leadership is both good for America and good for the world" and support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."[2] The PNAC exerted influence on high-level U.S. government officials in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush and affected the Bush Administration's development of military and foreign policies, especially involving national security and the Iraq War.[3][4]

In relation to the Persian Gulf, citing particularly Iraq and Iran, Rebuilding America's Defenses states that "while the unresolved conflict in Iraq provides the immediate justification [for U.S. military presence], the need for a substantial American force presence in the [Persian] Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein" and "Over the long term, Iran may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests in the [Persian] Gulf as Iraq has. And even should U.S.-Iranian relations improve, retaining forward-based forces in the region would still be an essential element in U.S. security strategy given the longstanding American interests in the region."[13]
One of the core missions outlined in the 2000 report Rebuilding America's Defenses is "fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars."[4][17

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project...erican_Century

I would venture to say that Iran is a much larger threat to US interests than Irag ever was. Sadam Hussein made a huge mistake at attacking Kuweit, but being a secular guy at heart,he never let radical relegion to cloud his mind. It was all about money(oil). With Iran, its different because of this radical form of Islam that they are running there. It would never be compatable with policies of the West. So here we are.

[Q4P]

Let's not get too out of hand here...

I'd like to summarize a little;

9/11 was the result of years and years of US policies and involvement in the middle east. We then went into war, apparently accomplished our goals yet are still in it. We can go for Iran, we can go for the next guy, we can try to limit everyone's capabilities here and there but the reality is that if we continue on the path we're on; this war will never end and will keep on costing us tons. Others will try their best to provoke us but in the end Terrorism is not something that can be stopped; that would be Utopia or something that is unachievable. The more we try to police, the more it will bite us in the ass but unfortunately we are so deep in this that there is no easy way out.