[Robert]

This thread is very entertaining

[Robert]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Wow, so every single journalist from every single magazine in the world? Amazing. Still haven't explained to me why Top Gear journalists and Top Gear track times favor the Z4m.

So everytime a restaurant critic says a restaurant is bad, it's the gospel?

The Cayman is a better handling car, but as an overall package, the Z4M has it beat in performance and price.

That's why, as a former p-car owner, I chose the Z4M over the Boxster S and Cayman S.

It's simply and undisputably a better car.

And used its much cheaper, you can get one for 25k, price of a camry vs. 35-40k for a 06-08 cayman s

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by Robert

And used its much cheaper, you can get one for 25k, price of a camry vs. 35-40k for a 06-08 cayman s

Maintenance as well. And it will hold it's value better.

[335 oClock]

the new shelby blows almost any of its competition out the water

[CamelBiscuit]

Ford escort.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

How do you figure?

Valve adjustments arent cheap, and the Z4M has problems with engine mounts breaking and isnt generally an inexpensive car to maintain.

The Cayman S is built better and doesnt require anything other than oil changes and tires. No value adjustments or anything more than simple maintenance.

As far as value, a 2006 cayman S was 70K new, those same cars are still 30-35K, so its held 43-50% of its orignal value.

A Z4M new was 60K and are in the 20-25K range, so its only held 33-42% of its orignal value.

So again, neither of those are correct or accurate statements.

Actually, both of those statements are correct.

The Cayman doesn't require anything other than oil changes? Wow, we're talking Honda reliability there!

1. Just a "few" incidents of catastrophic engine failures with the Caymans and Boxsters. Actually quite more than a few of their engines seizing due to Porsche's bad designs and using cheap parts.

IMS, VOS, Hi-g Oiling, Power Steering for Gen 1 Caymans.........just to name a FEW. And the Gen 2 Caymans have their own problems.

2. Any car that you can't see the engine in = big bucks to fix. To do most middle of the road maintenance you have to pull the engine out.

And when you engine does seize, $15,000 minimum for the engine whereas you can get a good S54 for much less than that.

3. Porsche stealerships > BMW stealerships hourly cost.

4. Porsche parts are WAY more expensive and less available as used.

And most Z4M's are in the 25k - 30k range. Most higher mileage cars are easily 25k +.

Z4M's are also depreciating at a slower rate and may actually start trending upwards like the Z3M's have.

Valve adjustments ARE cheap compared to the $250 oil change for the Cayman. Also there aren't as many Porsche indys as there are BMW indys.

[Sauce]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

A 996 GT3??? Maybe a turbo, but the 996 GT3 can barely compete with a 997.2 CS.

Plus, if an engine ever does go on a GT3, I hope you have an extra $40k lying around.

Words of clear inexperience. GT3's are faster than turbos. And it's a Mezger block not a BMW... They don't break.

[GammaZeta]

I have plenty of experience with 911's.

A 996 GT3 v. 997.2 CS would be a great competition.

A 996 GT3 v. 997 turbo would not be a competition unless it's on the twisty's.

I know the GT3 engines are bullet proof, but man, if it DID ever go, I'd cry for 6 months. All engines break. Could be driver's fault. Could be a freak accident. But 40k for an engine would always have me think before I revved!

[Sauce]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

I have plenty of experience with 911's.

A 996 GT3 v. 997.2 CS would be a great competition.

A 996 GT3 v. 997 turbo would not be a competition unless it's on the twisty's.

I know the GT3 engines are bullet proof, but man, if it DID ever go, I'd cry for 6 months. All engines break. Could be driver's fault. Could be a freak accident. But 40k for an engine would always have me think before I revved!

Well experience with GT3's and experience with 911's are two different things Have you ever been in one? It is unreal. The Mezger block has been around since the air-cooled days and is a split case. This means a lot of people know how to work on them. The ONLY ones that have issues are the garage queens, main seals don't like that nor do it's tolerances. Treat it like a dirty whore and it'll last forever. Don't rev it and it won't be as happy.

I'm not speaking straight line speed here. A 996/3 will pull on a c2s and they will both get pulled on by the turbo, but on a track the gt3's are substantially faster.

[GammaZeta]

Yeah, I guess the 911 and GT3 really shouldn't be compared.

If/when I buy another 911 it would be a:

1. some incarnation of the GT3

or

2. 997.2 Sport Classic replica

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Nope, you're wrong.

I've driven both. I've raced both.

The simple fact is that the Z4M is greater than the Cayman S.

ANd you expect people to take your opinion after the other guy posted all those compro tests?

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

I'm disputing it. And you're wrong.

It's not my fault you are a Cayman S fanboy and can't form an unbiased opinion.

"The Cayman is the greatest car of all time on and off the track. It's better than the 911 and Carrera GT combined and will destroy all Ferrari's that try to pass it. The Z4M is a Yugo compared to it."

Now saying the Boxster S is a better car...now you're just being silly.

you could be the biggest z4m fan boy ever.

Boxster S and Cayman S both shit on a Z4m. Thanks for the good laugh tho.

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

ANd you expect people to take your opinion after the other guy posted all those compro tests?



you could be the biggest z4m fan boy ever.

He hasnt posted in 3 days in this thread. Why would you want to open this mess back up with him? Obviously he is off his rocker. The less we hear his nonsense the better off we all are.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

I'm not trolling.

Just spreading the gospel of the Z4M.

A troll would never admit he's trolling.

You are a funny troll.

Trolls like you make sites like this entertaining, so thanks for that.

The saddest thing is you truly believe what your saying.

Originally Posted by NYC6

He hasnt posted in 3 days in this thread. Why would you want to open this mess back up with him? Obviously he is off his rocker. The less we hear his nonsense the better off we all are.

My bad, i didn't look at the date, i opened this tab a few days ago and just responded to it now. lol
Plus, who cares? Everyone knows the guy is wrong. It's funny watching someone make a fool of themselves.

[NYC6]

I can watch a fool for so long, then its not entertaining any longer. This is one of those times.

[beta]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

you could be the biggest z4m fan boy ever.

Boxster S and Cayman S both shit on a Z4m. Thanks for the good laugh tho.

Except now you sound like the fanboy. The porsches are a couple tenths faster at best.

If we take into account the price difference, we can do some small upgrades to the BMW to bring it in line. The BMW has more power, but is heavier; drop 100 lbs with some racing seats, put some good tires on there and I'd expect the performance to be similar enough that really the better driver would win. Remember that most of the reviews tested the BMW with stock (terrible) Continental tires, while the porsche typically has PS2 or better.

The last two things are entirely subjective: fun and looks. For some people "fun" is having the car swing out and require skill to drive fast, while others prefer "steering on rails". Some people love the porsche look, others think the BMW looks better. There is no right answer, only what you personally like. Same goes for PDK versus manual.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by beta

Except now you sound like the fanboy. The porsches are a couple tenths faster at best.

If we take into account the price difference, we can do some small upgrades to the BMW to bring it in line. The BMW has more power, but is heavier; drop 100 lbs with some racing seats, put some good tires on there and I'd expect the performance to be similar enough that really the better driver would win. Remember that most of the reviews tested the BMW with stock (terrible) Continental tires, while the porsche typically has PS2 or better.

The last two things are entirely subjective: fun and looks. For some people "fun" is having the car swing out and require skill to drive fast, while others prefer "steering on rails". Some people love the porsche look, others think the BMW looks better. There is no right answer, only what you personally like. Same goes for PDK versus manual.

There is a lot more to car than speed. Then again, i wouldn't expect someone that owns a Z4M to agree that the porsche is better.

[MediaArtist]

The Z4m and Cayman are both excellent cars that would be fun to drive. Can we not just leave it at that?

[beta]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Then again, i wouldn't expect someone that owns a Z4M to agree that the porsche is better.

Because it's not. You obviously missed my point so I'll repeat it: "Better" is down to your personal preference as in expert hands they're within a few tenths of each other on the track, which includes not only speed but cornering, etc. And for the price difference you could spend a little more on the BMW and make it even more competitive.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

There is a lot more to car than speed.

Agreed. And this is why the Z4M is "better" for ME. I like the sound of the engine more, I like the far back seating position, I like that the back will swing out on you if your'e not careful, I like that it's a manual 6 speed, etc.

I've driven plenty of porsches, I even test drove a few before picking up the M.

As MediaArtist mentions they're both great cars.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by beta

Because it's not. You obviously missed my point so I'll repeat it: "Better" is down to your personal preference as in expert hands they're within a few tenths of each other on the track, which includes not only speed but cornering, etc. And for the price difference you could spend a little more on the BMW and make it even more competitive.



Agreed. And this is why the Z4M is "better" for ME. I like the sound of the engine more, I like the far back seating position, I like that the back will swing out on you if your'e not careful, I like that it's a manual 6 speed, etc.

I've driven plenty of porsches, I even test drove a few before picking up the M.

As MediaArtist mentions they're both great cars, and what's "better" is entirely up to what you prefer. You want precise steering on rails, PDK, etc.? Porsche. You want something more raw, manual, etc.? Z4M. Something for everyone. In expert hands and track prepared it would come down to the better driver, not the car.

If you like the Z4m more than the porsche, thats awesome. Everyone has different needs and wants, as long as you happy thats all that matters.

[b0bab0i]

c6 Z06

[beta]

Torque is a better comparison, the Z4 M has 7% more torque, but weighs about 5% more.

The biggest difference is tires. The Porsche came with PS2s, the Z4 M ContiSport Contact 1 (rebranded as M3). The difference in the tires can easily account for several seconds. The ContiSport tires are a far cry from PS2s, even later ContiSport Contact 3s were not even close in performance.

As for modding, it's relevant because the porsche is more expensive than the Z4 M. Even when both cars were new the porsche was about 10-20k more expensive. Paying more buys you lighter components.

Dropping 100lbs with racing seats would make the weight difference close to zero, add in some decent PSS tires and I'd expect the Z4 M to pull ahead while still being cheaper, making it more competitive with newer offerings.

But even just making the tires the same would make the differences in performance much smaller.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Boxster S and Cayman S both shit on a Z4m. Thanks for the good laugh tho.

Not sure what planet you are from or what you are smoking.

Fact: Z4M > Boxster S AND Cayman S

You can move on now that you have been proven wrong.

Also, all arguments and points by Justinnum are invalid since he is posting on a PERFORMANCE car forums while driving a 328i "sport"...LOL!