[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by duder13

Well, at $50K-$60K, it looks like people are saying "Sorry, I'm buying a C8 at that price point." In fact, I'd probably still buy a regular Cayman over the current Supra.

I think the Supra would be more compelling if it was $85k, designed in house, and competed with the 911s and GTRs at a higher price point. Less Z4, more LFA.

I agree.

FT1 body, S58 motor, ceramics, >3200 lbs, functional vents, a from scratch toyota interior. i'd pay 85k and wouldn't look twice at a 4 cylinder cayman.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Holy hell. I'd be shocked if they break 10k globally in the first full year and 6k in any year after that.

I mean, I'm sure BMW wanted to sell 25k i8's annually, but we all know how that went.

At that rate they will have discounts on them sooner rather than later. There are already more 2020 Supra’s listed on Autotrader than 2020 M2’s.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i tend to agree; the GTR was also a shock as no one expected what Nissan did... it also came out during a worldwide economic crisis and atill did well... Toyota basically was lazy as funk and even with its cash hoards wouldnt create something outstanding... this doesnt surprise from the guys that still make 4runners and Tacomas with drum brakes, 5 spd trannys and and a 10 year old NA V6 on a false pretense of reliability... imho Toyota is the worst car company in existance.

Boring and quotidian. Yep.

[supra93]

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

At that rate they will have discounts on them sooner rather than later. There are already more 2020 Supra’s listed on Autotrader than 2020 M2’s.

Kind of like Mk4s? I know there's a post coital love for the previous sales flop, but no Supra sold well. The Mk3 was the only one that seemed to actually sell beyond the second or third year.

[supra93]

^The A40 and A60 weren't too bad. Not true, A70's sales started tanking pretty bad as with most niche products. Toyota never intended for the A80 to be a huge seller, but the rising Yen made it even worst.



http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales.../toyota-supra/

[Red Bread]

Wow, didn't realize the A70 had that short of a run of success. I thought it had seen a little resurgence towards the end. Guess I was wrong.

Still would be shocked to see this one ever hit 25k global sales.

[MisterF80M3]

Originally Posted by See5

Anyone expecting Toyota to build and develop a $80-90K sportscar solo in today's economic climate is smoking rocks.

And this whole Supra vs GT-R thing isn't even historically accurate. The MkIV was an anomaly. Early 90's Japan and its over the top product in general was an anomaly.

People are acting like this car is a failure and its really not. Its still a performer and will be pretty rare on the street. The C8, which is probably underpriced, really rained on its parade along with people just not liking the BMW partnership. Another sportscar on the road isn't a bad thing to me.

Why not? Toyota is still the largest automaker in the world. They could have easily developed their own sportscar without BMW's help.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

Why not? Toyota is still the largest automaker in the world. They could have easily developed their own sportscar without BMW's help.

And they have already stated in multiple interviews, had they developed their own engine and platform, the car would have been north of $100k.

Sure, I realize there are quite a few here that can afford a $100k, or multiple used expensive cars, but Toyota is in the business of making money.

$50-55k is a lot more attainable on an upper-middle class salary than $100k+

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

And they have already stated in multiple interviews, had they developed their own engine and platform, the car would have been north of $100k.

Sure, I realize there are quite a few here that can afford a $100k, or multiple used expensive cars, but Toyota is in the business of making money.

$50-55k is a lot more attainable on an upper-middle class salary than $100k+

Yet GM is able to do a C8 for $60k. Toyota is loaded with asshats then

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast

Yet GM is able to do a C8 for $60k. Toyota is loaded with asshats then

To be fair, the LT2 in the new 'Vette isn't using an entirely new engine. It's just an evolution of the LT1.

For example, look how much the Mercury Marine SB4 (yes, it was designed as an automotive engine) costs. It's an LS7 with DOHC heads and 8k redline. They built it on an existing block architecture, but developed new heads/cams/intake, etc.

That engine alone is $33k dollars with a 12-month warranty. Not a 5/60k like most powertrain warranties, nor the added expense of the emissions systems, certification with the Feds and on and on and on.

[See5]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

Why not? Toyota is still the largest automaker in the world. They could have easily developed their own sportscar without BMW's help.

That's not how things work.

The program still needs to be profitable and sell in numbers to support that.

Here in the US, the Supra at $80K+ would run into the same exact problem they had last time, the Corvette and the 911. They kill off almost everything in their price range. You have to dance around the fringes. They wanted no parts of dumping $500 million into a niche car that wouldn't sell over 30K units in a cycle and lose money. BMW probably was thinking in a similar fashion.

At a time when profit margins are tightening and companies are having to dump billions into EV, sportscars make no sense especially not without platform sharing.

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

To be fair, the LT2 in the new 'Vette isn't using an entirely new engine. It's just an evolution of the LT1.

For example, look how much the Mercury Marine SB4 (yes, it was designed as an automotive engine) costs. It's an LS7 with DOHC heads and 8k redline. They built it on an existing block architecture, but developed new heads/cams/intake, etc.

That engine alone is $33k dollars with a 12-month warranty. Not a 5/60k like most powertrain warranties, nor the added expense of the emissions systems, certification with the Feds and on and on and on.

To be fair, Toyota jacked a BMW engine...

[Z K]

Originally Posted by supra93

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/08/05/...ne-litchfield/

Considering the same engine in the M340i puts out 380hp, it's pretty normal for a tune to add 50hp.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast

To be fair, Toyota jacked a BMW engine...

facepalm.png

I forget that many "enthusiasts" don't understand how for-profit companies have to operate.

Sounds like the people in the stands at a football game that don't understand the game, "FIRE THE COACH! Why didn't he just throw for a touchdown there? God, he's so stupid."

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

facepalm.png

I forget that many "enthusiasts" don't understand how for-profit companies have to operate.

Sounds like the people in the stands at a football game that don't understand the game, "FIRE THE COACH! Why didn't he just throw for a touchdown there? God, he's so stupid."

You are capt assumption today. Is that what people do when there is no real rebuttal? Good day

[Humdizzle]

of course Toyota jacked a BMW engine. Just like they jacked a Subaru engine for the FRS.

What do you expect them to do... build a new engine like Nissan did for the GTR ? Build a new engine like they did for the vette? Or how about like BMW did with the S65 and S85.

The Nissan VR motor and Vette LT are built of existing designs... but Toyota could have built something off the LFA or LC 500 motor. They were just lazy.

[supra93]

^The 2UR is old as dirt and is most likely to be phashed out in the near future. As to why Toyota didn't just use their new V35A TT-V6, guess you can thank all the people they interviewed that said a new Supra must have a straight six.



New vid

[See5]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

of course Toyota jacked a BMW engine. Just like they jacked a Subaru engine for the FRS.

What do you expect them to do... build a new engine like Nissan did for the GTR ? Build a new engine like they did for the vette? Or how about like BMW did with the S65 and S85.

The Nissan VR motor and Vette LT are built of existing designs... but Toyota could have built something off the LFA or LC 500 motor. They were just lazy.

A V8 Supra would've caused an uproar. LFA engine way too expensive.

[MisterF80M3]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

And they have already stated in multiple interviews, had they developed their own engine and platform, the car would have been north of $100k.

Sure, I realize there are quite a few here that can afford a $100k, or multiple used expensive cars, but Toyota is in the business of making money.

$50-55k is a lot more attainable on an upper-middle class salary than $100k+

Ricer excuses by Toyota

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by See5

A V8 Supra would've caused an uproar. LFA engine way too expensive.

And because Toyota doesn’t need a third 2UR V8 coupe

[avantegardestyle]

Ive tried my best to like this car but i cannot
this is an absolute screw up by Toyota and BMW.

Toyota should have kept key elements of the old Supra.
this car will not age well

Also deal breaker for me that they made this a two seater. was uncomfortable but 4 seat in original Supra was more desirable.

#THUMBSDOWN!