[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

This has been BMW design for decades. Memories are short around here.

Point taken. Thing is, the competition is much larger, more numerous, and more distinctive than it was, say, in the Exx years. Most of BMW's competitors differentiate between models better in both the styling department and the materials department -- including M-B and Audi -- and that has slowly worn down the BMW brand in this day and age of individualist statements (multiple meanings to that term as it relates to consumer vehicles).

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

BTW... Germans are notorious for copying each other.

Point also taken. But the greatest successes each major German brand has had -- ones that would define the direction of each maker for years -- have been with a new model that no one else was really making. Examples:

Original 3 Series
VW Rabbit/GTi
Audi 5000 (until unintended acceleration)
Audi TT
Porsche Boxster
Porsche Panamera
BMW Z3
M-B W201 (Remember the 190E?) and C-Class W202
M-B M-Class (the original mass-produced (i.e., no Gelandewagen) German luxury SUV)

Beyond the Gran Coupe thang (which I personally feel is hogwash because it's marketed so badly), what has BMW truly innovated with since the Z3 -- which, I might add, is a huuuuge stretch to even cite since it was the third of the three German luxury roadster entries to make it to market?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Point taken. Thing is, the competition is much larger, more numerous, and more distinctive than it was, say, in the Exx years. Most of BMW's competitors differentiate between models better in both the styling department and the materials department -- including M-B and Audi -- and that has slowly worn down the BMW brand in this day and age of individualist statements (multiple meanings to that term as it relates to consumer vehicles).

Point also taken. But the greatest successes each major German brand has had -- ones that would define the direction of each maker for years -- have been with a new model that no one else was really making. Examples:

Original 3 Series
VW Rabbit/GTi
Audi 5000 (until unintended acceleration)
Audi TT
Porsche Boxster
Porsche Panamera
BMW Z3
M-B W201 (Remember the 190E?) and C-Class W202
M-B M-Class (the original mass-produced (i.e., no Gelandewagen) German luxury SUV)

Beyond the Gran Coupe thang (which I personally feel is hogwash), what has BMW truly innovated with since the Z3 -- which, I might add, is a huuuuge stretch to even cite since it was the third of the three German luxury roadster entries to make it to market?

IMO the Z4 and "flame surfacing" was innovative. I also believe one doesn't have to like a design for it to be innovative.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by polly

I get the feeling that there is a lot of racism in between the words on this thread.
I bet that if the designers last name was smith this thread would have took a different direction. imagine saying bangle was a better designer, what a joke.
it's such a shame to have so much racist coming from a country they think is first world, now that's a shame.

You, sir, should be banned for insinuating such a thing.

Congratulations on making something that has nothing to do with what you state have everything to do with what you state.

Bottom line: you're the racist because you see things most others don't -- because they aren't there.

[DL3]

Originally Posted by BMWPWR

Lame builds? Wasn't he in charge of the M2?

Every once and awhile a blind squirrel finds a nut, yes the 2 series in general is the star of the show, as 4 the rest of the lineup?? Not enough time.

[basiluf]

I can't tell the difference between the new C and E Klasse without looking at the badge. Same from the rear of the S Klasse. I'm not sure what everyone is complaining about the current BMW design. I like it, except for the new 7 is kind of weak.

[DL3]

Originally Posted by mPlasticDesign

I agree. But then you'll have the Bangle cry babies who can't handle innovative design.

Novel idea, bring back Chris Bangle.

[DL3]

Bring back the E46 M3, passed one the other day...Still spot on, no frivolous crap.

[440xiGCMsport]

I think karim did a good job fixing the ugly Bangle designs. The hoodlines I can do without and the copy and past are boring but everyone is doing it, but overall he did well. The interior needs some refreshing but may not be his fault that BMW doesn't seem like they want to spend the money on an interior probably because it had to go to tech improvements which are vast.

[JonnyM3]

Originally Posted by c63er

Wow. Can't say I am shocked.

Reading Scott's hardcore right winger / afd type posts as of late it seems the culture at bmw might be a hostile one to someone with his last name.

Pure conjecture but wouldn't be surprised if he was either pushed out for that reason or left of his own accord because of something like that. If it is true then the bmw m2 designer is on his way out next.

Originally Posted by polly

I get the feeling that there is a lot of racism in between the words on this thread.
I bet that if the designers last name was smith this thread would have took a different direction. imagine saying bangle was a better designer, what a joke.
it's such a shame to have so much racist coming from a country they think is first world, now that's a shame.

So because everyone didn't like his designs, while you do, that automatically makes people racists? I haven't seen anyone on here mention his last name, or presumed Muslim background. Just lol at the amount of pathetic you both portrayed in your insinuations when nothing indicates that he was even fired, or left on his own; as he's apparently done before. All I know is BMW hasn't had any revolutionary designs, not to say his were bad, ugly or distasteful they also didn't inspire the way previous generations did (aside from M's). Can't really go backwards, unless the new designer bases all models on a horrible flagship design, which probably wouldn't be created anyways.

[raysspl]

His designs are controversial, as usual like past designers, but it's a step forward -- whether you like it or not -- in building better designed BMWs in the future. Karim definitely did his part.

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by ///BYU

I think he'd be great as the head of BMW ///M or even BMW AG, but I'm guessing he'd readily admit to not being a good candidate for head of BMW design since he's not a designer, but an engineer.

Also, I was thinking about whether I'd want Andreas Preuninger to join BMW. I love BMW, but I'm first and foremost an all-automobiles-not-just-BMW-enthusiast and I think I love him right where he is doing amazing things for Porsche. I think he's my favorite guy in the car industry right now.

-------------

As for Karim Habib, I really like the current designs coming out of BMW, so I wish him the very best and hope BMW finds an excellent replacement.

I also think it's hard (for me, at least) to really judge a designer's legacy until 10+ years from now, when we can look back to see whether his or her designs achieve "timeless" status. People might like or dislike his designs (a matter of personal preference), but I think it's too early to write the final chapter on Karim Habib's overall impact and contribution to BMW and automotive design.

basically they need someone to put the ballz back into the b on bmw, reduce bmw's quest for luxobarging even the M cars. shits been getting out of hand recently...

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by DL3

Bring back the E46 M3, passed one the other day...Still spot on, no frivolous crap.

This

If folks want the "Ultimate Driving Machine" then the cars design should be focused on the experience of DRIVING the damn car and the vehicle should be optioned as such

I want a performance automobile not a rolling farking living room

I dont begrudge anyone who desires those options but list them as OPTIONS off of the base "Ultimate Driving Machine"

I believe the M240 does a reasonable job of this and the only thing I would complain about is lack of camber adjustment in the front end and lack of basic instrumentation.

Backup cameras and the rest of the fluff is all optional

[DL3]

Originally Posted by jpnh

This

If folks want the "Ultimate Driving Machine" then the cars design should be focused on the experience of DRIVING the damn car and the vehicle should be optioned as such

I want a performance automobile not a rolling farking living room

I dont begrudge anyone who desires those options but list them as OPTIONS off of the base "Ultimate Driving Machine"

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, we've become a minority.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by tc328

Time to get some flare fenders back like the old days!

Check out the BMW 4er Coupe against the Mercedes C-Klasse Coupe or even the new E-Coupe if you think BMWs don't have fender flare.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Any coincidence that Mercedes have upped their game in exterior design since he left them, and BMW have gone backwards?

Resize on the photo-copier is upping their design?

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by c63er

Wow. Can't say I am shocked.

Reading Scott's hardcore right winger / afd type posts as of late it seems the culture at bmw might be a hostile one to someone with his last name.

Pure conjecture but wouldn't be surprised if he was either pushed out for that reason or left of his own accord because of something like that. If it is true then the bmw m2 designer is on his way out next.

Bmws of late, while conservative are some of its best designs yet and their major saving grace (in the face of large cars with numb steering). I'm a little worried that their designs are now going to go south the same as every other aspect of the cars that were "bmw". Every other aspect of bmw seems to be Toyota now, so I'm guessing we are going to get more Toyota like styling now?

He saved mercedes design for a while (especially with the compact sports coupe) and if he goes back that would be bad for us (since they are currently in the pits with the e class vs 5 series).

We lost Bierman (who's blood pumped ///m) and got a downgrade with van meel (awd and electric ///m). Question is who is our downgrade in design going to be now ?

Not only did you jump the Shark with this response...you have back flipped over a school of whales.

[lawgone]

Originally Posted by bimmer_335

he was still 10x better than chris bangle... anyone remember him and what he did to 7er.

I loved Bangle. He brought BMW into modern and innovative design. My Bangle era BMW was sexy. My F30 is just OK. I'll never understand those that are so against him.

[lawgone]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMsport

none of the cars bangle designed can be included in any conversation about great BMW designs but many can be included in ugly AF designs.
You are delusional if you think any of his designs was good looking.
Call me a cry baby all you like but I call it good taste.

That's your opinion, but many - myself included - love Bangle's designs. Prior to Bangle I would hear people talk about how BMW's drove and that's it. When Bangle's designs came out I heard people talking about how cool the cars looked. That's when I knew I wanted one. Now we have hood lines, boomerangs, wheels with no depth and low rent interiors with lots of hard plastic and equally hard leather (unless you get individual) that are nothing special.

[lawgone]

Originally Posted by jpnh

This

If folks want the "Ultimate Driving Machine" then the cars design should be focused on the experience of DRIVING the damn car and the vehicle should be optioned as such

I want a performance automobile not a rolling farking living room

I dont begrudge anyone who desires those options but list them as OPTIONS off of the base "Ultimate Driving Machine"

I believe the M240 does a reasonable job of this and the only thing I would complain about is lack of camber adjustment in the front end and lack of basic instrumentation.

Backup cameras and the rest of the fluff is all optional

I want a performance automobile AND a farking luxurious high-tech interior. That's what a BMW is supposed to be.

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by lawgone

I loved Bangle. He brought BMW into modern and innovative design. My Bangle era BMW was sexy. My F30 is just OK. I'll never understand those that are so against him.

I liked everything about Bangle except the way he designed car.

[ORIGIN M.]

I will bet 10 to 1 he is going to work for an Electric Car Company.

Complete class act, he will do well regardless of where he goes.

[lawgone]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

I liked everything about Bangle except the way he designed car.

It's ok. You're allowed to like bland if that's your thing