[FernandoH]

Originally Posted by Azfer

This is the new trend but AC on screen can be a pain in the ass.

lol

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by Mach550

I was watching demuros i4 video and it blew my mind to see prev/next track buttons which are present on the steering wheel but no physical hvac buttons. The whole area down below could have been hvac like my G30.

I am also mind blowned to see a company like BMW a pionner in car infotainment/nav make such a step backwards.

I understand the cost savings but adding steps to simple tasks is basically regression.

[ChrisM4]

They are following the same path Cadillac went down. Many people much prefer actual buttons/dials for certain features. (Volume, tuning, favourites, climate control etc.)

Cadillac tried for 5 plus years and ended up reverting at great cost and lost sales. I'm not saying BMW will lose sales from this but it'll certainly irritate a large segment of customers.

Removing those physical controls is just bad UI design. I find the setup in my 2021 M4 is basically perfect.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by psuibmw

You better have one for calling the wife

Wife was kicked to the curb, can't have all the GF's programmed as it distracts from driving—need some time without the nagging.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

They are following the same path Cadillac went down. Many people much prefer actual buttons/dials for certain features. (Volume, tuning, favourites, climate control etc.)

Cadillac tried for 5 plus years and ended up reverting at great cost and lost sales. I'm not saying BMW will lose sales from this but it'll certainly irritate a large segment of customers.

Removing those physical controls is just bad UI design. I find the setup in my 2021 M4 is basically perfect.

I am totally with you, I found going from the 2018 M2 to the 2020 M340i a nice step up in terms of efficiency using the infotainment, except for the buttons vs dials for HVAC but it's a minor grip.

What do you actually gain with idrive8 other than bigger screen/better graphics ?
- Is the system easier to use and navigate ?
- Is it more efficient with shortcuts and a design that lowers your distraction time ?
- Is it more intuitive for a user who doesn't know it and jumps in the car or is new to iDrive ?

These are more the kinds of improvement I would qualify as a step forward, if there is none of those in a new system to me it's a failure...

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by Mach550

I was watching demuros i4 video and it blew my mind to see prev/next track buttons which are present on the steering wheel but no physical hvac buttons. The whole area down below could have been hvac like my G30.

It is much cheaper to bury the HVAC controls in iDrive than it is to manufacture and source a standalone physical HVAC control/display panel as it is offered in the G30 5-Series today.

[xlover]

Originally Posted by PLF69

I am totally with you, I found going from the 2018 M2 to the 2020 M340i a nice step up in terms of efficiency using the infotainment, except for the buttons vs dials for HVAC but it's a minor grip.

What do you actually gain with idrive8 other than bigger screen/better graphics ?
- Is the system easier to use and navigate ?
- Is it more efficient with shortcuts and a design that lowers your distraction time ?
- Is it more intuitive for a user who doesn't know it and jumps in the car or is new to iDrive ?

These are more the kinds of improvement I would qualify as a step forward, if there is none of those in a new system to me it's a failure...

I am not sold on idrive 8 just watching the videos but have not had any time with the system. That said, I am not sure I agree with the core of your analysis. It still may fail depending on execution, but i do not think just removing buttons alone will be the driver.

In my opinion point #3 can actually be in opposition to point #1 and #2.

Designing something that feels familiar at first glance often leads to only small incremental improvements because of the priority that no new skills be learned and no familiar skills be eliminated. Even if, when learned, a new skill will drive a much more dramatic increase in #1 and #2. We know tesla has had 0 trouble selling every car it can with a basic touchscreen and few additional interaction points (like complex voice or gesture)

In general, especially amongst traditionalists and loyalists learning new skills is strongly rejected on principle alone. If i had to paraphrase typical feedback: "i like the way it is, why cant they just make it the same... but also better"

By far the biggest problem i have had with the idrive 8 rollout (and communication is a general problem with the auto industry as they add technology) is the lack of acknowledgment of the skill change needed and materials reflecting "hey we made this big change and got rid of button X, here is how our UI team thinks it will be better) That information obviously exists.

What I see in idrive 8 is the result of UI/UX study around low interaction button groups (i assume climate for 99% of users is a set and forget with only periodic adjustments) and shortcuts were generally used for things that could easily be called up via voice control. Balancing that against adding bigger screens and cleaner interior design.

As an appendix: Consider the iphone/android vs blackberry debate... it was argued a keyboard with physical buttons was absolutely necessary to efficient typing and navigation of a smart device... apple and android killed them by filling the tactile gaps with software and made use of the new flexibility of a digital keyboard to build new skill patterns like instant switch of the keyboard space to emojis for example and now emojis are another standard for communicating (whatever your opinion of emojis, it is true)

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by xlover

By far the biggest problem i have had with the idrive 8 rollout (and communication is a general problem with the auto industry as they add technology) is the lack of acknowledgment of the skill change needed and materials reflecting "hey we made this big change and got rid of button X, here is how our UI team thinks it will be better) That information obviously exists.

What I see in idrive 8 is the result of UI/UX study around low interaction button groups (i assume climate for 99% of users is a set and forget with only periodic adjustments) and shortcuts were generally used for things that could easily be called up via voice control. Balancing that against adding bigger screens and cleaner interior design.

Adding to the record that (according to the owners manual) the 1-8 presets do exist in iDrive8. They're software now and accessible via an upward swipe from the bottom of the screen. 😉

[sandwi54]

I prefer iDrive 6.

[tracer bullet]

I'd be really curious to have the inside scoop on the different teams at BMW. I'd have to think they have an ergonomics group that was part of the new setup. But - did they love this, or hate it and get forced to go along? I'm sure we'll never know, but I'd be really interested.

[themnmd]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Adding to the record that (according to the owners manual) the 1-8 presets do exist in iDrive8. They're software now and accessible via an upward swipe from the bottom of the screen. 😉

Yes, it adds to the fingerprints

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by themnmd

Yes, it adds to the fingerprints

+ Additional steps and distraction..

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by themnmd

Yes, it adds to the fingerprints

Agreed. I'd rather they kept the 1-8 presets as hard buttons (among others), however I want to push back against the disinformation out there claiming this functionality went away. It has not… at least according to the manual. I haven't gotten my hands on iD8 yet.

[xlover]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Agreed. I'd rather they kept the 1-8 presets as hard buttons (among others), however I want to push back against the disinformation out there claiming this functionality went away. It has not… at least according to the manual. I haven't gotten my hands on iD8 yet.

as you noted only the hard buttons went away not the actual functionality.

My point was that the hard button access to the presets going away says something about how consumers were using them and what priority bmws analysis left the hard buttons at when deciding between a quick access menu in idrive and a hard button.

Consumer research likely told bmw the presets were:
1) a quick access item that is better or equally served with another path (voice, gesture, etc)
2)a very complex access that turning a 1 step process (old hard button) into a 2 step touch process(swipe/digital button) will still be meaningfully quicker than the full path for the action AND/OR the action is actually better served with another path (voice, etc)