[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by c1pher

A GTS 4.0 is the sweet spot Porsche sports car. For a little bit more I was able to find a very nicely optioned 991.2 GTS that I truly love and hope to keep until I’m no longer able to drive. But if I didn’t have that, I’d have the GTS 4.0.

Yeah the 911 sort of died for me with the mandatory turbo. Also decided slowly over time that the 991 and 992 chassis is too refined.

Dunno what the new rear engined Porsche cars are but they're not really 911s in my eyes. Lovely cars but they don't drive the same anymore. Muddy argument I know you could make the cutoff anywhere.

Cayman 4.0 is FANTASTIC.

[ctelimad]

Originally Posted by c1pher

A GTS 4.0 is the sweet spot Porsche sports car. For a little bit more I was able to find a very nicely optioned 991.2 GTS that I truly love and hope to keep until I’m no longer able to drive. But if I didn’t have that, I’d have the GTS 4.0.

I have a 718 4.0 boxter with oap and open valves and sounds like a baby gt3 when you push it and it is the best engine for the money not considering the gt3 engine
I still have a fomo for the spyder rs that i will most likely get one within a year or 2 trading the 4.0 for it

[BroDoze]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DI6hH..._web_copy_link

Oooooof

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Except an older 911. Porsche has tuned the 911 experience out of the 911. Haven't had the privilege to drive a S/T so maybe that's where it's at, but I digress.

In modern Porsche world the Cayman/Box is where it's at.

Only 2 seats though...

Amen. To me, the true essence of the 911 died with the 991. The 997 generation was the last of the great 911s. Everything after that has become way too refined, unnecessary, excessive, big, heavy, etc. They are really nice cars, but the essence and engagement are largely gone.

[Alfisti]

I am heavily biased because I own a 997 but I had a screaming deal on a beautiful 991 cab, dog dick red on black, highly optioned, one owner etc. I negotiated, came to a deal annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd I couldn't do it.

I was open to 997 or 991 but when it came to dropping the coin my pit of stomach said no, has to be 997.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I am heavily biased because I own a 997 but I had a screaming deal on a beautiful 991 cab, dog dick red on black, highly optioned, one owner etc. I negotiated, came to a deal annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd I couldn't do it.

I was open to 997 or 991 but when it came to dropping the coin my pit of stomach said no, has to be 997.

Love my 991.2 GTS but also realize it’s more like an M8 than a GTS4.0. It’s still relatively small, has plenty of power, handles like nothing else and the sport response is a lot of fun when I need it.

[Alfisti]

Go easy, a M8 is some 1,000 lbs heavier.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Go easy, a M8 is some 1,000 lbs heavier.

its also like 150% as powerful. Back in the day we used to say 100 pounds was roughly equal to 10hp, and the M8 has like, 200hp more? So really, it's like it's 1000lbs lighter than the 911, lol.

Yes I realize it's not really like that, but I tell you what, here in FL without any twisty mountain roads I can't think of a damn thing a 911 does better than an M8 other than "have a manual" and "depreciate less". Which are two very big selling points, don't get me wrong. On the flip side, the M8 has an engine and exhaust that sounds GOOD, not just an acquired taste like the flat 6.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

its also like 150% as powerful..

Doesn't matter unless you're going in a straight line. The whole ethos is different, the M8 is a GT car with muscle car elements, the 991 is still a sportscar with some GT elements.

[flybigjet]

Ok-- I'm just not seeing this.

I stopped by the local Lotus dealer to look at a 2022 C4S with ~2500 miles on it. Since my wife got her 981 S, she's sort of on a "You could replace the M2C with a 911 and we'd match" kick.

The dealer wants $160k for it.

The original sticker from two years ago that they sent me has it at $136k.

It's not a particularly special version and doesn't have a lot of add-on's.

Is the market really that crazy? There's no universe where I'm paying a $25k markup for a three year old USED car that's nothing particularly special.

R.

[bosstones]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

Is the market really that crazy? There's no universe where I'm paying a $25k markup for a three year old USED car that's nothing particularly special.

R.

Nothing special?! Clearly not apprectiating the badge! /s

In a word, though, yes.

[Alfisti]

No it makes no sense, however if one person is willing to pay that amount then i'm afraid that is the market rate. Truth be told the price against MSRP is not really relevant, what is though, is price vs new, what would that spec be new?

I am seeing a LOT of very highly priced 911's from 997 through 992, some sit for an awful long time though. A bloke here just listed a 997 Targa, 30K miles, nothing special about it for some $122,000CAD, that is properly insane.

So I check cars.com, mate the cheapest manual C4s (2002 or 2023) in the USA is listed at $157,000. Your dealer has it right. A base Carrera PDK can be had for $35K less.

[BlkGS]

Porsche has been jacking up the MSRP YoY, and they're largely bought by guys drunk on big portfolio gains. They see them as appreciating assets like a stock.

Eventually they'll put themselves into a death spiral, when people stop paying more for used cars than they were new and the whole house of cards will fall apart. Then Porsche will have to stop gouging people for new ones.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

Ok-- I'm just not seeing this.

I stopped by the local Lotus dealer to look at a 2022 C4S with ~2500 miles on it. Since my wife got her 981 S, she's sort of on a "You could replace the M2C with a 911 and we'd match" kick.

The dealer wants $160k for it.

The original sticker from two years ago that they sent me has it at $136k.

It's not a particularly special version and doesn't have a lot of add-on's.

Is the market really that crazy? There's no universe where I'm paying a $25k markup for a three year old USED car that's nothing particularly special.

R.

No, that’s not the market. They are just retarded. Here’s a manual one with 14k miles with $144k MSRP that sold for $122k plus fees and clean carfax:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...a-4s-coupe-15/

And here’s a manual GTS selling for less with lower miles:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-gts-coupe-10/

[baege]

Originally Posted by ctelimad

I have a 718 4.0 boxter with oap and open valves and sounds like a baby gt3 when you push it and it is the best engine for the money not considering the gt3 engine
I still have a fomo for the spyder rs that i will most likely get one within a year or 2 trading the 4.0 for it

that 4.0 definitely has a ferocity to it

would have a 718 4.0 over any 991 or 992 outside of a GT3

the 718 is just the right size and with that 4.0 and a manual, its a killer combo

[Efthreeoh]

Based on recent videos released to the internet... the target demographic is Arborists.

[vbb]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

Ok— I'm just not seeing this.

I stopped by the local Lotus dealer to look at a 2022 C4S with ~2500 miles on it. Since my wife got her 981 S, she's sort of on a "You could replace the M2C with a 911 and we'd match" kick.

The dealer wants $160k for it.

The original sticker from two years ago that they sent me has it at $136k.

It's not a particularly special version and doesn't have a lot of add-on's.

Is the market really that crazy? There's no universe where I'm paying a $25k markup for a three year old USED car that's nothing particularly special.

R.

$25k markups on a 3 year old used car...and not anything exotic. It's literally the one they sell the most.
Yeah, it certainly isn't THAT good of a car.

[x622]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Porsche has been jacking up the MSRP YoY, and they're largely bought by guys drunk on big portfolio gains. They see them as appreciating assets like a stock.

Eventually they'll put themselves into a death spiral, when people stop paying more for used cars than they were new and the whole house of cards will fall apart. Then Porsche will have to stop gouging people for new ones.

I just want to see them crash and burn. It's because of VAG and we all know it. They shit up Lambo, they shit up Ferrari and of course they shit up Porsche. I don't give a damn if anyone in here points to the increasing margins they're posting as "progress" or doing well, the cars and product are suffering because of it.

[c1pher]

VAG doesn’t own Ferrari as far as I am aware. Ferrari is doing a great job of screwing itself over on its own.

[x622]

Originally Posted by c1pher

VAG doesn’t own Ferrari as far as I am aware. Ferrari is doing a great job of screwing itself over on its own.

Derp brainfart, Ferrari is retarded because of the circlejerk, I meant Bentleys.

Saddest part is I'd still have a Bentley over an Aston, at least the Bentley will drive for a bit...

[slilley]

They might have jacked up the prices of all their cars due to the impending threat of tariffs, which is totally going to undermine Porsche's new car sales if it ends up happening. I certainly wouldn't pay higher than sticker price for a used non-GT 911 - even with that few of miles. OK, if they add a CPO warranty onto the factory warranty, that might be worth another couple grand....but certainly not what they are asking now. Check around at some other dealers in the same state and see if they are all jacking up prices, or it was just the one.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by slilley

They might have jacked up the prices of all their cars due to the impending threat of tariffs, which is totally going to undermine Porsche's new car sales if it ends up happening. I certainly wouldn't pay higher than sticker price for a used non-GT 911 - even with that few of miles. OK, if they add a CPO warranty onto the factory warranty, that might be worth another couple grand....but certainly not what they are asking now. Check around at some other dealers in the same state and see if they are all jacking up prices, or it was just the one.

This has been going on for like 10 years, nothing to do with tariffs. It really got supercharged by the last brain fart we had around. He managed to give his rich buddies big gains in their investment values while crashing the buying power of all the the top like less than 1%.