[ragingclue]

He will go out and do this again, because I'm sure his parents will forgive his recklessness. Hopefully, he won't kill anyone else.

To argue for canyon carving at this level is absurd. If you have the money for a car like that, and you wan't to push it that hard, there are tracks, and I'm sure they have the dough for it.

No matter what happens to the kid, even if he dies in the future as the result of a stunt like this, he's basically accepting that as a calculated risk. So, no, I wouldn't feel bad about it.

[NewSong]

I think this guy's parents should get him an old Russian Mig. That would be the ultimate need for speed gift!

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by NewSong

I think this guy's parents should get him an old Russian Mig. That would be the ultimate need for speed gift!

Well, they're sitting all over the middle of the desert in Iraq.... When Saddam had determined it was inevitable that we were coming (the second time), he randomly dispersed his MiG's into the middle of the desert, I guess somehow thinking we would bomb the airfields and not the planes. What they weren't thinking about was the fact that, although they are built to take off from hastily prepared airfields, there wasn't going to be any using them without major delay and effort. It made me wonder how we weren't able to just off the guy if they were that horribly incompetent. But, I shit you not, if the kid wants a MiG, there are plenty of them just sitting around in the Iraqi deserts.

[nlakind]

Originally Posted by methodtim

It's safer to do drive at night on a twisty road fast than it is in the middle of the day? Really? I am seriously at a loss for words at the bill of goods you're trying to sell me.

to me, canyon running is safer at night: you can see on-coming head lights from quite a distance, there is far less traffic on the road, if any, & there typically aren't any bicyclists..obviously, if it was a question of canyon running during the day or night if the canyon was closed to the public, for example, of course, i would agree with you! but in terms of putting others at risk, it's safer to canyon run at night..

Originally Posted by methodtim

Your logic is falling completely flat on its face here. First, I have already stipulated that when stuff happens to someone that's out of their control, it's tragic and (by implication) I am sympathetic. What you're describing here are random acts that might happen to anyone at any time.

i'm sorry i didn't make my point clear, i wasn't talking about random acts to a normal everyday driver. my point was in regard to this kid! & if he was driving the way he was in that video during the day it would've been far more dangerous to others.

Originally Posted by methodtim

I agree that at night you can see oncoming headlights. But you're still conveniently leaving out the excessive speed component. As the video clearly showed, the GT-R didn't crash into an oncoming car, but into a wall that was not illuminated. The things that led to his crash were:

1) Excessive speed (it's obvious he couldn't control the car at that speed)
2) Driver error (see number 1)
3) Darkness (I challenge you to tell me that he would have taken the corner that fast if that wall was lit up and he saw it)

Look, I'm all for a good debate (some might say I go out of my way to hunt one down), but any way you slice it, your dog just won't hunt. The kid was driving recklessly, he crashed, there's video proof of this. There's no way that driving at that speed in the dark is safer than driving at speed in the daytime. Again, I challenge you to disprove this. Please be sure to show your work.

1. i wasn't arguing excessive speed, that would be the point of a canyon run
2. obviously
3. thanks to the invention of head lights, he knew there was a wall there..i'm sorry, but i've driven the canyons at night many many many times & seeing the next curve isn't hard at whatever speed due to the fact that there's always some kind of huge yellow warning sign of a sharp turn ahead not to mention he has HID head lights that make a canyon pretty visible..

Originally Posted by methodtim

I did a lot of stupid things when I was younger. A LOT. Yes, I'm being harsh on the kid. But here's my logic. First and foremost, if anyone were to wish ill of me for all the stupid things that I've done, I wouldn't begrudge them one bit. The way I see it, I'm really lucky to have gotten through my 20's unscathed. (Un)fortunately (depending on how you look at it), I've always been a tough love kind of guy. If you do dumb shit, you deserve anything that comes your way. It's apparent that we have different philosophies regarding this so I don't expect you to agree with me one bit.

So does the kid in the video deserve to die? I don't know and, frankly, I don't care. All I know is that he was doing something really, really dumb and if it wasn't for the fortunate placement of that wall, he'd be in a world of hurt. My initial reaction was that I wished the wall wasn't there. Thinking back, I still think the wall shouldn't have been there. Like I said, Darwin.

& in regards to "deserving to die" - we definitely have different philosophies on this because i don't believe that anybody deserves to die, well, nobody deserves to die for being stupid & being a kid!
obviously, serial killers, rapists & child molesters can all get shot in the face, i could give a shit less but saying that somebody deserves what he has coming for being immature is ignorance.

[herbz]

Originally Posted by nlakind

he shouldn't have been there is debatable, we've all gone canyon running, i've been driving canyons since the day i got my license!

more appropriately, he shouldn't be on GMR w/ a 100k car if he's not experienced & has no idea how to control his car, if he can afford the GT-R(parents, wtvr) i'm sure he can find a way to pay a few hundred bucks for a performance driving class at willow..something like that.

i grew up in beverly hills, my mom has money, almost every "kid" i know has cars that most ppl dream about, i don't think it should be held against him that he was dealt a different hand of cards than others..nobody here knows him personally so you don't know the circumstances, he might appreciate that car more than anything & maybe he does work for it..

yes, he made a mistake by driving it on GMR when he clearly isn't experienced but again, we've all made mistakes..he should learn from it & be more cautious

why exactly do you put the word "kid" in quotations? that's exactly what they are. and we use the word "kid" to signify a few things: inexperience, ignorance, naiveness, cockyness, arrogance, etc.

no one holds it against him. i think more people hold it against the parents who create these degenerative idiots. everyone is born on an even slate, but from then on, who you are is shaped by your parents. and i'm sorry, but if your parents are dumb enough to buy you one of the best performance cars on the planet while you're still a teenager, then chances are, you're going to end up a fucking idiot as well.

second of all, enough of this "maybe he works for it" bullshit. tell me, what type of job can a 20 year old have that would allow him to buy a 110k luxury item? investment banker for Goldman Sachs? founder of a company like Microsoft? seriously, enough of the bullshit, 99.9999999% of pre-college grads can not pay for that sort of lifestyle independently. period. that way of thinking is what gets us into the economic mess that we are currently in, and if this shallow line of vision does not change, we're looking at a repeat of the same situation in a few years.

most of these KIDS have their lives handed to them on a silver platter by parents who have no desire or intention to teach values or standards. people like this is why this country is royally fucked up. i smile every day i see the stock market in the red, because i know another shmuck that buys his 18 year old KID a ferrari just went broke again.

no sympathy. none whatsoever. i don't hope he died, i just hope he broke a few bones in his legs and his back, and has to sit in a cast for a few months. and i hope his father goes broke after his imaginary Bernard Madoff real estate investments tanked and he ends up working for $7.50 an hour at Mickey D's.

[nlakind]

Originally Posted by herbz

why exactly do you put the word "kid" in quotations? that's exactly what they are. and we use the word "kid" to signify a few things: inexperience, ignorance, naiveness, cockyness, arrogance, etc.

no one holds it against him. i think more people hold it against the parents who create these degenerative idiots. everyone is born on an even slate, but from then on, who you are is shaped by your parents. and i'm sorry, but if your parents are dumb enough to buy you one of the best performance cars on the planet while you're still a teenager, then chances are, you're going to end up a fucking idiot as well.

second of all, enough of this "maybe he works for it" bullshit. tell me, what type of job can a 20 year old have that would allow him to buy a 110k luxury item? investment banker for Goldman Sachs? founder of a company like Microsoft? seriously, enough of the bullshit, 99.9999999% of pre-college grads can not pay for that sort of lifestyle independently. period. that way of thinking is what gets us into the economic mess that we are currently in, and if this shallow line of vision does not change, we're looking at a repeat of the same situation in a few years.

most of these KIDS have their lives handed to them on a silver platter by parents who have no desire or intention to teach values or standards. people like this is why this country is royally fucked up. i smile every day i see the stock market in the red, because i know another shmuck that buys his 18 year old KID a ferrari just went broke again.

no sympathy. none whatsoever. i don't hope he died, i just hope he broke a few bones in his legs and his back, and has to sit in a cast for a few months. and i hope his father goes broke after his imaginary Bernard Madoff real estate investments tanked and he ends up working for $7.50 an hour at Mickey D's.

LOL, i don't where to begin..

basically, all you just said was that 1. you didn't grow up with money
2. you're angry about ppl who are born into money & don't make the same life decisions you do 3. your judging which, again, is complete ignorance. 4. i resent everything you just said because i was born into a decent amount of money, my dad was in a successful band in the 70's/80's & early 90's until he passed away..i grew in beverly hills, went to beverly hills high & i have had to work for everything i have! & almost every person with money i know works very hard to keep what they have, it's not his fault he was born into money, but it doens't mean you have the right to judge his entire life based on a fucking car accident!!! that is ridiculous!!!

[methodtim]

Originally Posted by nlakind

& in regards to "deserving to die" - we definitely have different philosophies on this because i don't believe that anybody deserves to die, well, nobody deserves to die for being stupid & being a kid!
obviously, serial killers, rapists & child molesters can all get shot in the face, i could give a shit less but saying that somebody deserves what he has coming for being immature is ignorance.

How old are you, Nlakind?

I ask because you are really quick to label what others say as ignorant (or other condescending terms like that). I already said that we have different philosophies on things and I took great pains not to demean or paint your opinion on things in a unnecessarily negative light. It's a bit annoying to have you throwing around these types of terms when I'm certain that I'm nowhere near as ignorant as you'd like to think.

[ragingclue]

I hate spoiled children. They really screw up a good forum.

[nlakind]

Originally Posted by methodtim

How old are you, Nlakind?

I ask because you are really quick to label what others say as ignorant (or other condescending terms like that). I already said that we have different philosophies on things and I took great pains not to demean or paint your opinion on things in a unnecessarily negative light. It's a bit annoying to have you throwing around these types of terms when I'm certain that I'm nowhere near as ignorant as you'd like to think.

i'm 23, however, that doesn't reflect the comment i made in terms of being ignorant for the comment you made...let me back track, i apologize, ignorant probably wasn't the right word to use..in terms of my "condescending comments", i wasn't trying to be patronizing in what i was saying, i was trying to make a point that we've all done stupid things at one time or another, it doesn't mean that he, or anybody(within reason) deserves to die. & i don't find you to be stupid by any sense of the definition but a comment along the lines of "he deserved to die for doing something so foolish" is an asinine comment for somebody to make, especially w/ your level of intelligence..

[methodtim]

So I'm not ignorant, I'm just a jackass. I guess that's better.

Look man, all I'm trying to get across is that I don't care if the kid died or not. Period. The end. I know we're going to disagree on that, for all the reasons that have been beaten to death (pardon the pun).

Some of us were born kinder than others, I guess.

[nlakind]

Originally Posted by methodtim

So I'm not ignorant, I'm just a jackass. I guess that's better.

Look man, all I'm trying to get across is that I don't care if the kid died or not. Period. The end. I know we're going to disagree on that, for all the reasons that have been beaten to death (pardon the pun).

Some of us were born kinder than others, I guess.

it's been fun

i'll see you on the next post, lol

[methodtim]

Originally Posted by Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

I'm down for the debate...

I refuse. It's going to take too much effort to parse your reply and compose something resembling a proper reply. Next time, use quotes properly and we'll tussle.

[methodtim]

Originally Posted by nlakind

it's been fun

i'll see you on the next post, lol

Of course, I ain't going anywhere.

[lib]

Originally Posted by nlakind

in the dark at excessive speed - & this right here proves you don't know what you're talking about, i'm sorry but it is truly safer to canyon run at night than it is during the day!

Here's a better idea. Keep it on the !@#$%@# track.

In CA you can find a track day nearly every weekend and they are fairly cheap, especially if you can afford a GTR.

If you keep it on the track you'll go a lot faster, learn a lot more and do so in a much safer environment. If you do it on a canyon run - day or night - you risk killing yourself and innocent bystanders.

When someone takes the proper precautions and does it so they don't risk others then they will always get my sympathy if something goes wrong. When someone knowingly risks others due to their lack of self control I just hope they off themselves before they take someone else with them.

[Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX]

Originally Posted by methodtim

I refuse. It's going to take too much effort to parse your reply and compose something resembling a proper reply. Next time, use quotes properly and we'll tussle.

That was easy...

[methodtim]

Originally Posted by Aaron'z 2.5RS/WRX

That was easy...

Yes, you win via poor formatting.

[exidisjon]

Dam thats sad... Sad thing is this kid probably got another 100k+ car..

[Mahhvinn]

Best Driver of the Year.

[DG.]

Saw this video somewhere on internet, sorry if its a repost.

Anw, thats a really good video, and im still wondering how could a Gt-R (being one of the best track cars ever) crash like this.

[footie]

If you barrel too fast into any corner and then lock the brakes no amount of trick awd system or suspension will save you. You simply can't defy the law of physics, especially if you aren't that great behind to wheel.

[ukthunderace]

Looked like the GT-R didn't know the road, overdrove his headlights at night and hit the wall....racing at night is not easy...even on a track.

[modbargains]

The owner of that GTR is just a kid, a friend of a friend of mine. I've seen him a couple of times. He understeered into that corner, pretty amusing actually. I frequent that cyn road a good amount, its not easy.