[Fundguy1]

Our military right now is the weakest it's been since preworld war 2. Less ships that preww1, least amount of planes it the history of the airforce, low troop counts, and on and on. Our military since korea was designed to be able to fight in 2 conflicts at once. This so if we did go to war we could still threaten another enemy with war if they got upidy. Now if we fight the rest of the world will see were vulnerable, weak, and can do what they want without retaliation. Bad idea. We need to gut the va, fix it for real get rid of the bureaucracy and start over. Those guys deserve way more and we spend way to much already for what they get.

[808@702]

Originally Posted by bimmette

I will respectfully disagree with this statement.
Although, you do have cheap gas and Hawaii.

Tara please come to Hawaii. I will be your personal tour guide and you can use my M3

[Z K]

Originally Posted by csu87

If you look at the richest and most successful people under 30/40, a majority are us born. You can say all the smarts come from overseas, but it is simply not the case.

And if they gave up on their dreams just because they were having issues getting a visa, they can talk too my gardner Jose, who was able to live out his dreams of being a landscaper despite not getting a visa

I guess you didn't read my post?

I said highly educated people who are here legally in the USA. They are forced to leave the country after they complete their PhDs, advanced engineering degrees etc. They want to stay and enrich America but we send them packing back to their country.

Maybe it's where you live. Here, all the guys with the big houses and driving around in exotics and such are not born here.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by Z K

I guess you didn't read my post?

I said highly educated people who are here legally in the USA. They are forced to leave the country after they complete their PhDs, advanced engineering degrees etc. They want to stay and enrich America but we send them packing back to their country.

Maybe it's where you live. Here, all the guys with the big houses and driving around in exotics and such are not born here.

You are 100% right. The fact that without marriage or sponsorship that these highly educated immigrants have to leave after getting a degree is a travesty. Those are the people we WANT here, especially those getting degrees in math, science, accounting, business, engineering, computer science, etc.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

OK if you want to go there. Yes Obamacare haso screwed up the Healthcare system royally. More people have lost Healthcare then gained it since it was introduced. Costs are increasing dramatically, deductibles and copay also. Doctors are leaving in droves. Repealing it would be the best thing possible. To fix it then clamp down on the rrivelous lawsuits that lawyers profit from. That would cut costs in half. We're the only country that doesn't but the lawyers back the Democrats who protect them. Allow interstate commerce of health insurance, require preexisting conditions to be covered, allow small businesses to do group plans. Problem solved.

The trillion dollar war was not useless until Obama made it so. We took out a dictator and made a friendly country in the heart of the middle east. We had a brand new billion dollar airbase there and we could have ended all middle east conflicts by staying there like we are in Germany or Japan still. I sis would be in Syria only. Yemen would be stable. On and on. He decided tor a quick election boost to take out our troops like we did in Afghanistan in the early 90s and allowed is is to rise. Now we need to do it all over again.

The economic mess is Obamas and the Democrats fault. The laws created that allowed the housing and subsequent banking crisis to happen were enacted under carter and Clinton. The economy would have rebounded like it always has except every single policy they passed was aimed at wealth distribution and retarded economic growth. Wed be at dow 35,000 right now if he hadoesn't done nothing and really at 4% unemployment not 12% which is the true number based on labor participation rate.

As for spending a trillion dollars who cares. Bush was $6 trillion in debt. Obama said that was unAmerican. Now we're at $19 trillion in debt. Who's inamerican now?

Finally the rich. The only people who have improved their economic condition under Obama is the rich. Never have we had a time where the rich got so much richer and the middle class and poor so much poorer. Again from his policies. If you're going to make your arguments, at least have a single correct fact and figure out what the definition of "is" is.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...e-bad-economy/

I care about the debt. I care that Bush's decisions took us from 6 trillion to 13 trillion in debt and contributed a massive amount to Obama's debt. I care that Clinton left Bush the best country we have ever had and by the time he left we had 10% unemployment, a dead economy, crashed housing, financial, and auto industries, no regulations, and two wars, one of which was started by illegally invading a sovereign country in the name of the war on terror. If you think the second great depression we had 7 years into Bush's tenure was caused by Carter, Clinton and Obama (retroactively I guess considering Obama's first budget didn't come into effect until 2010!) then we don't have anything else to talk about....

[FogCityM3]

To all the military arguments that the US is in decline, ask another question. If we took an isolationist policy, whereby we would never intervene what would likely happen? North Korea and South Korea would go to war, China would invade Taiwan, China would go to war with Japan, India and Pakistan would nuke each other, Russia would invade Eastern Europe and the Ukraine, Israel would attack several middle east countries, Saudi Arabia and client states would go to war with Iran, just to name a few. Not to mention free shipping lanes and free movement of commerce would be pretty much over.

Think some in this thread need to start asking some critical questions!

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Our military right now is the weakest it's been since preworld war 2. Less ships that preww1, least amount of planes it the history of the airforce, low troop counts, and on and on. Our military since korea was designed to be able to fight in 2 conflicts at once. This so if we did go to war we could still threaten another enemy with war if they got upidy. Now if we fight the rest of the world will see were vulnerable, weak, and can do what they want without retaliation. Bad idea. We need to gut the va, fix it for real get rid of the bureaucracy and start over. Those guys deserve way more and we spend way to much already for what they get.

"Defense spending declined in the 1990s after the end of the Cold War and increased in the 2000s during the War on Terror. Defense spending stood at 6.8 percent of GDP at the height of the Reagan defense buildup. But, beginning even before the breakup of the Soviet Union it began a decline, reaching below 6 percent in 1990, below 4 percent in 1996 and bottoming out at 3.5 percent of GDP in 2001, about half the level of 1985.
But 9/11, the terrorist attack on iconic US buildings in 2001, changed that, and defense spending began a substantial increase in two stages. First, it increased to 4.6 percent by 2005 for the invasion of Iraq, and then to 5.0 percent in 2008 for the the “surge” in Iraq.
Spending increased further to 5.7 percent in 2011 with the stepped up effort in Afghanistan. Defense spending is expected to decline to 4.5 percent of GDP in 2015 and 3.8 percent GDP by 2020."

Perhaps if so much of our military budget since 2003 hadn't been dedicated to the Iraq war we'd have the battalion you want? Can't maintain 2 wars, survive a depression and grow the military all at once. Also keep in mind that advancing technology has mitigated some of the need for warships and planes. We can do amazing things with computers and drones and satalites now. Don't let facts get in the way of your obvious BO hatred though. Just keep reminding yourself that diplomacy bad, war good.

[LHR]

Originally Posted by Z K

America is losing ground as other countries become more powerful.

Like who?

[LHR]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Our military right now is the weakest it's been since preworld war 2.

Yet all the terrorists are dead and the ones that aren't may as well be.

[LHR]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

Those are the people we WANT here,

When you say "we" does that include the Native American?

[LHR]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Our military right now is the weakest it's been since preworld war 2. Less ships that preww1, least amount of planes it the history of the airforce, low troop counts, and on and on. Our military since korea was designed to be able to fight in 2 conflicts at once. This so if we did go to war we could still threaten another enemy with war if they got upidy. Now if we fight the rest of the world will see were vulnerable, weak, and can do what they want without retaliation. Bad idea. We need to gut the va, fix it for real get rid of the bureaucracy and start over. Those guys deserve way more and we spend way to much already for what they get.

Why is Peace never an option?

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...e-bad-economy/

I care about the debt. I care that Bush's decisions took us from 6 trillion to 13 trillion in debt and contributed a massive amount to Obama's debt. I care that Clinton left Bush the best country we have ever had and by the time he left we had 10% unemployment, a dead economy, crashed housing, financial, and auto industries, no regulations, and two wars, one of which was started by illegally invading a sovereign country in the name of the war on terror. If you think the second great depression we had 7 years into Bush's tenure was caused by Carter, Clinton and Obama (retroactively I guess considering Obama's first budget didn't come into effect until 2010!) then we don't have anything else to talk about....

Holy cow. You're beyond redemption. But for the record I'll set you straight.

The debt is obamas. He trebled it on bs programs that created no jobs. Bush's decisions did nothing to the debt. It was BS shovel ready jobs, welfare increases, tax increases, etc that created the debt.

Obama started with 6% unemployment. He said he needed a trillion dollars to keep it under 8%. It's still at 12%. He spent $50 million for every $25,000 job created.

Economy would have recovered but Obama with Barney franks help killed it with regulations, we'd be at 4% real unemployment and Dow 35,000 now if he hadn't killed it with every wealth distribution and regulatory policy he enacted.

As for illegal war, when is war legal and when do or should we ever ask th UN or anybody for permission? Iraq was determined to have the makings of nuclear weapons by th US, German, Russian, Chinese, French, British, and Israeli intelligence agencies. All the democrats voted for it including Kerry and Hillary. They did have chemical weapons. We gave them to him to fight Iran. He used them in his own people. He also killed over a million of his own people. He was evil.

Obamas first budget didn't happen till 2010 because Harry Reid wouldn't pass it. Duhhhh

Instead he just went on the old one and pushed through extra money because he owned congress. That wasn't bush spending. It was his.

And finally Clinton did not give bush a great economy. He reduced the federal deficit but not the debt. He did this by pushing federal spending onto the states. This screwed us. It is paid for in bonds. Federal bonds pay low interest. Municipal bonds higher. He basically took his low interest car payment and transferred it to a high interest credit card. And we pay the extra interest in higher state taxes.

He also had the tech bubble burst and the economy was basically the same when Bush got it as it was when Obama did. But bush fixed it in a year with a tax cut. Then 9/11 happened, tanked it again and he fixed it again in short order. Then when Obama got it he tried to regulate and spend his way out which only aggravated the problem and created the economic mess the world still endures. This is a 2 year max to fix problem and he screwed it up.

Sorry, but you're deluded by left wing liberal college professors. I'm a 20 yr financial professional and your analysis is laughable.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by MindControl

Why is Peace never an option?

It is if that's what your enemy seeks. A good example is the Soviet Union. Our current enemy seeks to kill us. Period. Because his god told him so. You can't negotiate with that. It needs to be exterminated in the harshest way. Kill them or they kill you. Period. Peace is a joke for them and an insult to intelligence to even contemplate.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by MindControl

Yet all the terrorists are dead and the ones that aren't may as well be.

???? Isis controls a land mass the size of England, beheads gays, Christians, westerners, men, women, children, and is expanding rapidly. Terrorism is happening monthly now in the U.S. We had zero incidents and had finished the job in Iraq when Bush left office. Hellllo!

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by MindControl

Like who?

China, Russia, Isis to name 3.

[Diesel X5]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/cana...hows-1.3155500

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Holy cow. You're beyond redemption. But for the record I'll set you straight.

The debt is obamas. He trebled it on bs programs that created no jobs. Bush's decisions did nothing to the debt. It was BS shovel ready jobs, welfare increases, tax increases, etc that created the debt.

Obama started with 6% unemployment. He said he needed a trillion dollars to keep it under 8%. It's still at 12%. He spent $50 million for every $25,000 job created.

Economy would have recovered but Obama with Barney franks help killed it with regulations, we'd be at 4% real unemployment and Dow 35,000 now if he hadn't killed it with every wealth distribution and regulatory policy he enacted.

As for illegal war, when is war legal and when do or should we ever ask th UN or anybody for permission? Iraq was determined to have the makings of nuclear weapons by th US, German, Russian, Chinese, French, British, and Israeli intelligence agencies. All the democrats voted for it including Kerry and Hillary. They did have chemical weapons. We gave them to him to fight Iran. He used them in his own people. He also killed over a million of his own people. He was evil.

Obamas first budget didn't happen till 2010 because Harry Reid wouldn't pass it. Duhhhh

Instead he just went on the old one and pushed through extra money because he owned congress. That wasn't bush spending. It was his.

And finally Clinton did not give bush a great economy. He reduced the federal deficit but not the debt. He did this by pushing federal spending onto the states. This screwed us. It is paid for in bonds. Federal bonds pay low interest. Municipal bonds higher. He basically took his low interest car payment and transferred it to a high interest credit card. And we pay the extra interest in higher state taxes.

He also had the tech bubble burst and the economy was basically the same when Bush got it as it was when Obama did. But bush fixed it in a year with a tax cut. Then 9/11 happened, tanked it again and he fixed it again in short order. Then when Obama got it he tried to regulate and spend his way out which only aggravated the problem and created the economic mess the world still endures. This is a 2 year max to fix problem and he screwed it up.

Sorry, but you're deluded by left wing liberal college professors. I'm a 20 yr financial professional and your analysis is laughable.

"Obamas first budget didn't happen till 2010 because Harry Reid wouldn't pass it. Duhhhh"

Sorry, wrong. The budget for any new president's first year is always set by the outgoing president. Duhhhh. I'd think you'd know that being a 20 year financial professional. Harry Reid wouldn't pass it because Bush (the guy who set it!) only funded the war until the day he left office.

I've owned and operated my own business for 22 years and have 45 employees currently, but yeah, my comments are laughable while you blaming fucking Carter and time-traveling Obama for everything that happened in 07/08 is right on point! I'd still like to know what Carter did in his brief stint 40 years ago that caused the 2nd great depression in 2007 and if it was that bad why didn't the almighty (by that I mean Reagan of course) fix it? Oh that's right, because Reagan and GHB started the whole deregulate wall street movement.

And please, continue to talk down to me like your job at H&R Block gives you qualifications that owning my own business for two decades doesn't.

From Useconomy.about.com

"The FY 2009 budget was unusual because it was not signed by the President that created it. President George W. Bush submitted it to Congress in February 2008, right on schedule, but Congress stated it was dead on arrival. Why?

A. It was the first budget to spend more than $3 trillion.

B. It underfunded the War on Terror

C. Its revenue projections completely ignored the warning signs of recession.

Bush's total spending was $3.5 trillion.

Of this, a record $505 billion was for the military's regular operations. However, it only included $70 billion in Overseas Contingency Funds for the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- just enough to fund until January 20th, when Bush left office. This was less than half of the Contingency funds budgeted for the year before, and the year after."

And that is why congress wouldn't pass it. But the greater point is, of course, that it was Bush's budget. Obama's first budget was fy 2010 and at the time it was enacted we were almost 13t in the hole. We had two wars waging, an economic stimulus package, a crushed economy on top of collapsing financing, housing and auto markets. Did the costs of the wars cease to exist when Obama took the oath? Hell no! Did the things we had to do to try and dig out of the hole cost us? Yes. So of course everything that happened under Bush affected the debt accrued under Obama. How in the hell could it not??? Could it have been done better? Possibly, I'm no BO fan (haven't voted since 04) and am not even a democrat, but the republicans have been playing obstructive politics since 2008 at the expense of the country just so they could point out what a failure Obama was. That pisses me off. The man never had a chance. The 113th congress passed less legislation than any other in history. Blocking Obama has been the soup du jour for the GOP since the day he took office.

[FogCityM3]

Lots of misinformation in this thread. If one had to point to two actions that caused massive greed, risk taking and subsequent multi-year bubble and financial crisis of 2008 it was the final repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999 which was promoted by Republicans and signed by Clinton. Efforts to repeal it touched all administrations since the 1960s but the allowing of the Citigroup/Travelers in 1998 put the most important pieces into motion. The second was a major relaxation of lending standards at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the late 90s promoted by the Clinton administration and perpetuated by the Bush admin. There were numerous warnings in the late 90s and in 2000s about the lending practices both in numerous publications and by notable investors such as Warren Buffett.

Sure useless wars don't help, but it pales in comparison to the level of wealth destruction (borne mostly by the private sector) caused by the two issues above. The US in comparison to Europe, Japan, China (which is unravelling) is currently a safe haven. For the money that is allowed to get out of China today, where do you think it's going?

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Lots of misinformation in this thread. If one had to point to two actions that caused massive greed, risk taking and subsequent multi-year bubble and financial crisis of 2008 it was the final repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999 which was promoted by Republicans and signed by Clinton. Efforts to repeal it touched all administrations since the 1960s but the allowing of the Citigroup/Travelers in 1998 put the most important pieces into motion. The second was a major relaxation of lending standards at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the late 90s promoted by the Clinton administration and perpetuated by the Bush admin. There were numerous warnings in the late 90s and in 2000s about the lending practices both in numerous publications and by notable investors such as Warren Buffett.

Sure useless wars don't help, but it pales in comparison to the level of wealth destruction (borne mostly by the private sector) caused by the two issues above. The US in comparison to Europe, Japan, China (which is unravelling) is currently a safe haven. For the money that is allowed to get out of China today, where do you think it's going?

I still think the G-S repeal was Clinton kissing as much republican ass as possible to try to avoid impeachment. He was a swarmy bastard.

[FL335]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...e-bad-economy/

I care about the debt. I care that Bush's decisions took us from 6 trillion to 13 trillion in debt and contributed a massive amount to Obama's debt. I care that Clinton left Bush the best country we have ever had and by the time he left we had 10% unemployment, a dead economy, crashed housing, financial, and auto industries, no regulations, and two wars, one of which was started by illegally invading a sovereign country in the name of the war on terror. If you think the second great depression we had 7 years into Bush's tenure was caused by Carter, Clinton and Obama (retroactively I guess considering Obama's first budget didn't come into effect until 2010!) then we don't have anything else to talk about....

Seriously, you need to take an Economics class.

First off economies go in 6-8 year cycles on average from peak to trough. Sometimes as short as 4 or as long as 9 or 10.

Second there is "good" debt and "bad" debt. Regardless of what you think about W going into Iraq and increasing the debt by going to "war", at least that money gets into the economic system, creates jobs and improves the economy.

Obama has increased the Gross National debt from 10.7 T to 18 T (as of 12/14) since he took office. Check your facts...that is a 70% increase in 6 years!

So where did that debt go towards? "bad" debt....unproductive debt...giving hand outs to people who don't want to work, contribute to the economy and who don't pay taxes. BUT these people get to vote. Wow!

Regarding taxes: it's simple...more money in one's pocket is better. If you could earned $10 and could keep $8.50, wouldn't you prefer this over say $6.50? What would you do with that extra money? Buy things, bank it where it can be loaned, etc...it helps the economy.

There is no logical argument against this. If you think you should pay more in taxes because you feel bad for people, by all means, stoke a check. Not me. I "earn" for a living. Novel idea....

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by FL335

Seriously, you need to take an Economics class.

First off economies go in 6-8 year cycles on average from peak to trough. Sometimes as short as 4 or as long as 9 or 10.

Second there is "good" debt and "bad" debt. Regardless of what you think about W going into Iraq and increasing the debt by going to "war", at least that money gets into the economic system, creates jobs and improves the economy.

Obama has increased the Gross National debt from 10.7 T to 18 T (as of 12/14) since he took office. Check your facts...that is a 70% increase in 6 years!

So where did that debt go towards? "bad" debt....unproductive debt...giving hand outs to people who don't want to work, contribute to the economy and who don't pay taxes. BUT these people get to vote. Wow!

Regarding taxes: it's simple...more money in one's pocket is better. If you could earned $10 and could keep $8.50, wouldn't you prefer this over say $6.50? What would you do with that extra money? Buy things, bank it where it can be loaned, etc...it helps the economy.

There is no logical argument against this. If you think you should pay more in taxes because you feel bad for people, by all means, stoke a check. Not me. I "earn" for a living. Novel idea....

Yup!!! I get my ass into work early every morning.. I don't feel like I should help support some lazy fuck who wants to sleep till noon and feels that work is beneath him.

[FL335]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Yup!!! I get my ass into work early every morning.. I don't feel like I should help support some lazy fuck who wants to sleep till noon and feels that work is beneath him.

At this time in our country, there hare more "have nots" than "haves"...who do you think the "have nots" vote for?