[C5driver]

Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz

At least they got some good evidence.....hopefully this doesn't get turned into jihadi propaganda.....these people love that sh!?

Relax...the GoPro report may be false.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by C5driver

Yeah, I said that.

The other stuff you posted is just a fundamental difference between sides and no amount of bandwidth will change either side.

I type slow. lol Saw you covered our gun violence free southern neighbors after the post.

The rest of the post wasn't directed towards you. I know you know whats up.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I type slow. lol Saw you covered our gun violence free southern neighbors after the post.

Yeah...a couple rounds of .22LR will get you and me prison time, but hey, let's fucking behead people and give them an acid bath

Simplistic, I know...but we're girls...wait...one guy, one girl

[Axius]

I thought you were a girl....

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by Axius

I thought you were a girl....

I am...you misread the edit. How come you're bird dogging my posts?

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

I'm looking from the US perspective. We have plenty of homeless (especially Vets) who can use a hand up but Obama would rather import more mouths to feed then to help his own people.

Now let's look at France. The Muslims terrorist there where all European born. So they had free healthcare and all that good stuff yet they still decided to go for the "40 virgins" options. A dog will not bite the hand that feeds him but a human will rip your fucking head off if it fits his narrative, no matter how well you provide for him.

Also why is it that none of the rich Arab countries are willing to take their own brothers and sisters in? Makes you think...

Oh boy.

Europe has fucked up royally for hundreds of years. I shall offer my favorite examples as usual.

Finland has taken a ton of refugees. A great thing but we've done shit to make the people feel like they belong there. Our language alone makes it a rough transition and Finns suck as people too. We've recently started to realize we need our new citizens as workforce and also that multicultural world is upon us. There is a chance one day we will have non blonde Finns, who see themselves as Finns. I'm extremely ashamed that this has taken us decades to do. The same goes to all Europe. We fucking suck at multicultural stuff, and we are very, very good at making people feel left out.

The current culture of me, myself and I bring the best out in us. When the dear parents teach the kids that they should have everything and they deserve everything, it is quite a bitch slap when we have to accept the virgins are not knocking on our door for free. People get bitter since they are missing out on the things they should have. The idea of blaming the other cultures is not that new, Jews have done it, Christians are really good at it, and now Muslim extremists are just copying old ideas.

I don't see Saudi Arabia spreading their wealth to anyone, mainly because they don't even share it with their own folks. That country is so fucked up there are no words for it. Funny how little bad press it gets though.

I agree on the veterans. I feed a couple daily, and to watch what has become of the young men that were sent to war is heartbreaking. I have friends here who have served/ are in service and the reality of war has become clear to me.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Well your government is more than happy to let a horde of muslim refugees in. Don't worry it will be all "chitty chitty bang bang" up in Canada soon to.

I am Australian, living in Canada BTW. I disagree, the influx will not see a rise in crime, i would prefer they slow down the influx but it's been done before with little impact.

[Needbmwpartzz]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

I'm exaggerating.. Slightly

Here is the year to date for Chicago


Year To Date
Shot & Killed: 412
Shot & Wounded: 2352
Total Shot: 2764
Total Homicides: 466

That's quite shocking numbers.....here in (gta)Toronto if 50 are killed per and that's a bad year .....not sure on the other stats.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Dude your country just opened its gate to a flood of muslim refugees. The background checks on them are a joke so have fun with that.

I don't think you understand what a refugee is or how they come into a country

But, yes, my country will accept refugees fleeing ISIS just like accepted refugees fleeing Ho Chi Minh and soviet armies in the past.

And I will double Lups bet.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

I'm exaggerating.. Slightly

Here is the year to date for Chicago


Year To Date
Shot & Killed: 412
Shot & Wounded: 2352
Total Shot: 2764
Total Homicides: 466

Jesus fucking christ! That's insane, Toronto is not much smaller than Chicago at all and I think the numbers are at about 20 in terms of shooting deaths with total homicides at 40 odd. THE FUCK.

Even back home, total homicides for the entire 23 million population is half the total for Chicago alone. Will say it again, y'all fucked up down there.

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by Lups

Oh boy.

Europe has fucked up royally for hundreds of years. I shall offer my favorite examples as usual.

Finland has taken a ton of refugees. A great thing but we've done shit to make the people feel like they belong there. Our language alone makes it a rough transition and Finns suck as people too. We've recently started to realize we need our new citizens as workforce and also that multicultural world is upon us. There is a chance one day we will have non blonde Finns, who see themselves as Finns. I'm extremely ashamed that this has taken us decades to do. The same goes to all Europe. We fucking suck at multicultural stuff, and we are very, very good at making people feel left out.

The current culture of me, myself and I bring the best out in us. When the dear parents teach the kids that they should have everything and they deserve everything, it is quite a bitch slap when we have to accept the virgins are not knocking on our door for free. People get bitter since they are missing out on the things they should have. The idea of blaming the other cultures is not that new, Jews have done it, Christians are really good at it, and now Muslim extremists are just copying old ideas.

I don't see Saudi Arabia spreading their wealth to anyone, mainly because they don't even share it with their own folks. That country is so fucked up there are no words for it. Funny how little bad press it gets though.

I agree on the veterans. I feed a couple daily, and to watch what has become of the young men that were sent to war is heartbreaking. I have friends here who have served/ are in service and the reality of war has become clear to me.

I can understand the have and have nots argument but these jihadists are not about that. They are glued to the Koran the way a 15 year old kid gets glued to internet porn when his parents leave the house; and they take all the shit written in there as absolute fact. There end game is not so much as to own a fleet of M3, as it is to bring forth the Apocalypse.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Jesus fucking christ! That's insane, Toronto is not much smaller than Chicago at all and I think the numbers are at about 20 in terms of shooting deaths with total homicides at 40 odd. THE FUCK.

Even back home, total homicides for the entire 23 million population is half the total for Chicago alone. Will say it again, y'all fucked up down there.

Calm down.

Never mind that 90% of those homicides are drug and or gang related, some even justifiable police shootings.

Details tell the whole story.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by C5driver

Like Mexico? The US has actually quite a number of laws pertaining to gun control, but like most things in life, it's not a direct one to one correlation.

And one of the casualties of this incident will once again be reason and rational thought. Whatever decision is made at a regional or national level will be politically expedient, given the upcoming elections.

Same goes for drunk driving, influenza immunizations, and swimming pools. Life is dangerous and as much as we'd like, baby proofing the world is impossible.

I'd agree that most of us prefer what we know. Such is life.

Sure. Mexico and the USA have similar rates of deaths by guns. Mexico is a developing country. It also has near open war in certain areas with drug gangs.

If it were me, I would want my country (if it were one of the wealthiest and most developed) to have a much better rate of gun deaths than a country like Mexico.

As for political decisions in the USA, there will be none. No tragedy it seems will create the will to do the only things that will limit gun deaths (gun control with teeth). Democrats might talk about it but they won't do anything. Republicans won't even talk about it.

So nothing will happen, which is my point: by choosing this environment and situation Americans are, in effect, choosing the status quo which means more deaths by guns. Is it 'nanny state' to bring that level down to the level of other developed democracies? I guess that is the question.

The rest of the developed world seems to get along fine with more robust gun control. You choose to not have that and, as a result, many more of you will be killed.

My point is you should own that decision rather than expressing surprise when these shootings happen. Because, unless you change your laws, it will just keep happening to you and your citizens. If you don't like that my thought would be you should change that.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Sure. Mexico and the USA have similar rates of deaths by guns. Mexico is a developing country. It also has near open war in certain areas with drug gangs.

If it were me, I would want my country (if it were one of the wealthiest and most developed) to have a much better rate of gun deaths than a country like Mexico.

As for political decisions in the USA, there will be none. No tragedy it seems will create the will to do the only things that will limit gun deaths (gun control with teeth). Democrats might talk about it but they won't do anything. Republicans won't even talk about it.

So nothing will happen, which is my point: by choosing this environment and situation Americans are, in effect, choosing the status quo which means more deaths by guns. Is it 'nanny state' to bring that level down to the level of other developed democracies? I guess that is the question.

The rest of the developed world seems to get along fine with more robust gun control. You choose to not have that and, as a result, many more of you will be killed.

My point is you should own that decision rather than expressing surprise when these shootings happen. Because, unless you change your laws, it will just keep happening to you and your citizens. If you don't like that my thought would be you should change that.

There's no point man, especially on this board with a bunch of hard righties, there's just no point discussing it. All you can do is say "shame that" when the latest massacre happens and get on with your day.

Freedom yo, freedom.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Sure. Mexico and the USA have similar rates of deaths by guns. Mexico is a developing country. It also has near open war in certain areas with drug gangs.

I thought we were talking about restrictive laws.

Originally Posted by myzmak

If it were me, I would want my country (if it were one of the wealthiest and most developed) to have a much better rate of gun deaths than a country like Mexico.

Guns, cars, sharp objects, bacteria...a death is a death. See previous comments.

Originally Posted by myzmak

As for political decisions in the USA, there will be none. No tragedy it seems will create the will to do the only things that will limit gun deaths (gun control with teeth). Democrats might talk about it but they won't do anything. Republicans won't even talk about it.

I'm not so sure. After Stockton, CA, there was a major assault weapon legislation in CA (Roberti-Roos). Same with the late 90's (SB23).

Originally Posted by myzmak

Is it 'nanny state' to bring that level down to the level of other developed democracies? I guess that is the question.

And this is one of the core questions that a civilized society must address, independent of other "developed democracies", given the inherent differences between each democracy.

Originally Posted by myzmak

My point is you should own that decision rather than expressing surprise when these shootings happen. Because, unless you change your laws, it will just keep happening to you and your citizens. If you don't like that my thought would be you should change that.

Are you addressing me, because I'm not surprised in the least bit.

This husband and wife had evil in their hearts and no amount of legislation could have changed their course of action.

I'm being drawn into a discussion I thought I wouldn't be drawn into. You have your opinions and I respect that. I have mine. Let's leave it at that.

Cheers and peace.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Sure. Mexico and the USA have similar rates of deaths by guns. Mexico is a developing country. It also has near open war in certain areas with drug gangs.

If it were me, I would want my country (if it were one of the wealthiest and most developed) to have a much better rate of gun deaths than a country like Mexico.

As for political decisions in the USA, there will be none. No tragedy it seems will create the will to do the only things that will limit gun deaths (gun control with teeth). Democrats might talk about it but they won't do anything. Republicans won't even talk about it.

So nothing will happen, which is my point: by choosing this environment and situation Americans are, in effect, choosing the status quo which means more deaths by guns. Is it 'nanny state' to bring that level down to the level of other developed democracies? I guess that is the question.

The rest of the developed world seems to get along fine with more robust gun control. You choose to not have that and, as a result, many more of you will be killed.

My point is you should own that decision rather than expressing surprise when these shootings happen. Because, unless you change your laws, it will just keep happening to you and your citizens. If you don't like that my thought would be you should change that.

If you remove all the shootings that are drug and gang related in this county, the US is on par with all other developed countries in terms of homicides. IF you removed all the drug and gang related shootings and violent crimes, the US would have a lower violent crime rate than many other developed countries.

Our government is for the people, by the people. While that seems to be losing popularity, for the time being, nothing has changed because the majority don't want it changed.

The rest of the developed world is free to do what they want. Or are they?

It is a decision i own. I'll take freedom over a nanny state false sense of security any day of the week and twice on Sunday. If you could magically make all guns and gun knowledge disappear from the earth, sure, i'll gladly give up my guns. But i'm pretty sure the people who perpetrate drug and gang violence will just resort knives, clubs, fists and feet. Which by the way, kill more people annually in the US than guns. Or maybe we'll just experience more random bombings like other european countries.

As C5driver stated, get to the root cause. In the mean time, some legislation that might actually make a difference in the over all statistics (which is what all the foreigners look at) would be harsh mandatory sentencing for crimes committed with a firearm, this may get criminals thinking twice about using a gun in a crime. Or in the places that already have mandatory sentencing, make some new legislation that removes the ability for prosecutors to waive mandatory sentencing. There is a lot to the violence problem in the US, it's much more complex than anyone gives it credit for. There are a lot of angles to attack it from. But limiting the rights of law abiding citizen isn't one of them. If the quantity of guns is the problem, everyone is the US would be dead. But the fact remains that every night in the US, 350,000,000 guns don't kill anyone.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

I can understand the have and have nots argument but these jihadists are not about that. They are glued to the Koran the way a 15 year old kid gets glued to internet porn when his parents leave the house; and they take all the shit written in there as absolute fact. There end game is not so much as to own a fleet of M3, as it is to bring forth the Apocalypse.

Well that's the thing, those people who are behind this would've used something else than Koran as their reason eventually.

People suck. Ive seen what kind of destruction one bitter bat can do in my own life.i can easily see how that influence could've been turned into something far worse.

[Dalko43]

I don't understand what the end goal is of a "gun-control" advocate. Can someone explain?

You ban 30-rnd magazines, and the next attacker uses multiple 10-rnd magazines.
You ban semi-automatic rifles, and the next attacker uses a hunting style bolt-action rifle or pump action shotgun.
You ban all firearms (which would realistically ban all legal access without really cutting off criminal access) and the next attacker uses a suicide best, or a knife, or a car, or a plane...

What is this magic piece of legislation that will prevent another mass killing from happening?

Certain people want to ban the tools used in these mass killings. Banning those tools restricts the law-abiding citizen, while at best causing a slight inconvenience for the criminal. But for the sake of argument, let's say that a legislative action keeps one kind of tool/weapon out of criminal hands....what will the response be when the criminals transition to using another tool to kill? What is the end goal of this protectionist mentality if the criminals will simply use other means to kill?

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

I don't understand what the end goal is of a "gun-control" advocate. Can someone explain?

You ban 30-rnd magazines, and the next attacker uses multiple 10-rnd magazines.
You ban semi-automatic rifles, and the next attacker uses a hunting style bolt-action rifle or pump action shotgun.
You ban all firearms (which would realistically ban all legal access without really cutting off criminal access) and the next attacker uses a suicide best, or a knife, or a car, or a plane...

What is this magic piece of legislation that will prevent another mass killing from happening?

Certain people want to ban the tools used in these mass killings. Banning those tools restricts the law-abiding citizen, while at best causing a slight inconvenience for the criminal. But for the sake of argument, let's say that a legislative action keeps one kind of tool/weapon out of criminal hands....what will the response be when the criminals transition to using another tool to kill? What is the end goal of this protectionist mentality if the criminals will simply use other means to kill?

Surrender your knife | Save a Life

http://surrenderyourknife.co.uk

[Mr Tonka]

Oh, one other thing.

Gun crime and violent crime have been on the decline in the US since the early 1990's and continues to decline.

Despite what the media want's us to believe.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Surrender your knife | Save a Life

When knives are banned, only criminals will eat steak. FML

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by C5driver

When knives are banned, only criminals will eat steak. FML

There's always the fork on the end of your arm and the knife under your nose!

I use them all the time camping. Even the gal's get into the practice after the first couple of days. I believe they find it quite liberating.