[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

They will learn. Just like Mercedes did with its 4cyl C63. It is too expensive too complicated and not what buyers wanted in general. One thing though. Performance was there. I really hope BMW will not sell too many of those and will be back to basics.

Yep. Porsche did too, so much so, that they now offer the Hybrid and non Hybrid versions in pretty much all trims and models.

BMW will learn from the flop. People don't want the halfbaked, full of compromises solution. Either go full EV or don't go there at all.

[hb]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

I know. Exactly my thought. Although Chris loved M2 despite the weight since he said he couldn’t feel it. But that was 1700kg. M5 is whole different ballgame. I accept this car for fast grand tourer and very quic all-arounder cool daily for those craving for the newest tech geeks and such. But M5 as we all knew and loved is no more. It’s great that there are many other options on the market. I currently own 4 BMWs. This will be changing though.

On track, you will feel the weight of the G90. Especially when braking late with an M4 CS in front of you. I learned that the braking points have to come at least 15-20 yards before.

[BMWCAT]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Now the fun thing is that everybody hates new C63 with 4 cyl yet it is quicker than the old C in every measureble aspect. This one is slower heavier and I honestly doubt it’ll do sport part of sport sedan better than outgoing model. When F90 came out it was praised for its dynamics and handling aspect over it’s predecessor. This one is huge disappointment from the get go but hey. You can play video game on its huge screen

Well the C63S E Performance sales so far is pretty horrible with little initial interests at the dealerships in Germany. And if this powertrain combo is so great why would BMW already be axing the XM in the new internal reports?

[M3JetPilot]

The weight is insane but I’m so glad the styling is more traditional BMW. How could anyone prefer the G80 styling to this?

[Donnie1490]

So sad I feel nothing for this car. I actually prefer the i5 m60. Crazy

[x622]

Originally Posted by Schn3ll

Wut? Tell me you’ve never driven these cars without telling me you’ve never driven these cars.

You're pretty funny, I've driven all of them and have a bad habit of buying stuff I like. The Merc was the worst. Felt like a heavy slow boat that couldn't turn to save it's life. The Porsche at least turned, but had terrible throttle tuning just like the Cayenne Turbo-S Hybrid.

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by jackaleyess

Exactly, my nxt M would be just M3/M4. Sadly they have discontinued the beautiful M8.

BMW really needs a reform in their design and engineering department. It seems like it has been infiltrated by ppl of diversity without the love for driving machines.

Agreed. Many businesses are being hurt in the spirit of DEI. I’m all for it. As long as experience, skills, competence and merit come first.

[AHall]

Originally Posted by dezzracer

Agreed. Many businesses are being hurt in the spirit of DEI. I’m all for it. As long as experience, skills, competence and merit come first.

So you know who designed the G90? I am trying to understand what you two are saying? The person or team responsible are not German, not men or what?

[Defragster]

Originally Posted by Boss~

Anybody can explain to me what do you mean by no real shifters? 🧐

On m3 / m4 you can move the shifter to the right after being in drive, and you can change the gears by moving the shifter up/down, 100% same as in Porsche 992 gt3.

Same on m2 and m8. In m5 they removed the knob in the middle at all, so you are left with just paddle shifters behind wheel.

[EthanEJC]

Originally Posted by Rossocorsa

They should have made it either all electric or hybrid like the new Porsche 911 to meet emissions. This is horrible

Porsche have said the hybrid system in the 911 does nothing for emissions it’s purely their for performance…

[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

They will learn. Just like Mercedes did with its 4cyl C63. It is too expensive too complicated and not what buyers wanted in general. One thing though. Performance was there. I really hope BMW will not sell too many of those and will be back to basics.

Get ready to be disappointed!

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by BMWCAT

Well the C63S E Performance sales so far is pretty horrible with little initial interests at the dealerships in Germany. And if this powertrain combo is so great why would BMW already be axing the XM in the new internal reports?

I honestly believe that this is because of slow sales numbers. Much slower than they anticipated. discounts of $25k or more are not unheard of. Those corporations are ran by number guys. Why would you discount product ? Definitely not cause it sells great. My opinion is that XM is I. Such price bracket that gives customers many other options to choose from. It’s just my guess though.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by wesleyan92

Get ready to be disappointed!

I couldn’t care any less honestly. Many people with way too much disposable income on this planet that could prove me wrong though 🤣
Edit:
Sorry. No such thing as “too much income” 🤣🤣🤣

[Jason]

[Rossocorsa]

Originally Posted by EthanEJC

Porsche have said the hybrid system in the 911 does nothing for emissions it’s purely their for performance…

The e-turbo tech lets the new 992.2 911 always run the engine at the optimum fuel/air mixture for the catalytic converter, especially at high RPMs. It’s an EU regulation. It is why the G90’s V8 is detuned. At high RPMs, you can’t just throw more fuel in to burn inefficiently for more hp. Lamda=1. Watch here:

[TigahRouge]

It’s an “M” car!! The M5 will be a fantastic driver’s car. This is why we love the BMW brand!!

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Rossocorsa

The e-turbo tech lets the new 992.2 911 always run the engine at the optimum fuel/air mixture for the catalytic converter, especially at high RPMs. It’s an EU regulation. It is why the G90’s V8 is detuned. At high RPMs, you can’t just throw more fuel in to burn inefficiently for more hp. Lamda=1. Watch here:

This is fantastic. Really goes to show the E-Turbo setup can in fact help reduce emissions, especially to meet EU7. I never thought how you can actually recover exhaust gases and use it for the electric motor. Genius!

Makes me wonder though, if people would have been pleased with a new G90 M5 that used a Performance Hybrid setup like the Porsche system, but the engine only made 20 more hp than the F90M5 Competition, but yet at the same time the G90 only gained less than 100lbs of weight, and again at the same time was more fuel efficient and reduced emissions to meet EU7 standards? Would people still want an M5 that only made 20hp more than the last generation?

What a great video!

[gblansten]

Think of how much better the new M5 could have been if they added even another 1000 pounds for a curb weight of 6368 pounds.

[M3JetPilot]

Originally Posted by AHall

So you know who designed the G90? I am trying to understand what you two are saying? The person or team responsible are not German, not men or what?

Not to speak for the posters above but I would say this has more to do with design ideas than anything else. BMW is just throwing everything at the wall design wise to see what will stick. They have no overriding design principles anymore. Use the DEI example of someone saying you can be healthy at any weight, which isn’t true, but many accept that idea. In regards to cars it’s like saying any design can be BMW or Porsche. That also isn’t true but BMW leadership has made statements that seem to indicate that’s the direction they’re going. All designs are valid, no matter how outlandish, and if BMW enthusiasts don’t like them then they’re close minded. I think many BMW enthusiasts are tired of this mentality.

[subterFUSE]

Originally Posted by BMWCAT

And if this powertrain combo is so great why would BMW already be axing the XM in the new internal reports?

The XM has been the 2nd worst selling model for BMW in the USA, the worst selling being the Z4.

Although, I think BMW probably went past the point of no-return on the M5 powertrain before they officially made the decision to kill the XM. I expect this generation of the M5 to be a relative flop. I think there will be cars sitting in dealerships for long periods of time until they eventually slash prices to move them.

[Rossocorsa]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Makes me wonder though, if people would have been pleased with a new G90 M5 that used a Performance Hybrid setup like the Porsche system, but the engine only made 20 more hp than the F90M5 Competition, but yet at the same time the G90 only gained less than 100lbs of weight, and again at the same time was more fuel efficient and reduced emissions to meet EU7 standards? Would people still want an M5 that only made 20hp more than the last generation?

What a great video!

Don't forget, the 992.2 adds something like 60hp and 40nm of torque due to the added small electric motor in the gearbox. Along with the small updates, the hp and torque curve are much wider. You get more instant torque in the low end with the e-motor, you get more power at higher RPMs with the single larger e-turbo, you pass new EU regulations. Sell the new G90 for $130-140k and release a comp version with bucket seats that is the same weight as the outgoing M5C. Skim 5-10s off the nurburgring time. Keep the V8.

Porsche is always evolution rather than revolution. The 620hp in the M5C is plenty, I honestly don't need much more. What I want is a dynamic car. Add 200lb, give us more hp and torque and most people would have been very happy.

[KevinM]

While M5s ceased to have relevance to me after the E39 (full disclosure, that was my first M car and I still have it), BMW is doing what it needs to to meet regulatory guidelines, emissions requirements and changing consumer desires and expectations. Within those parameters, with a few misses, BMW M has usually managed to work its magic on whatever it is dealt with by each platform (2, 3/4, 5 series, etc.). I'm sure this M5 will still fit the bill as a large, luxurious, and fast sedan.