[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

Maybe people now overestimate their abilities, qualifications and value, before earning those traits?

I manage a team of programmers. I asked them (as part of a department-wide survey) to rank their skills. A few of the younger folks, with less than 2 years of experience, ranked their skills as "expert". Sorry, bud, you ain't an expert. Not even close.

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

... it is a multi-layered problem. . . . If you truly work hard and are motivated people WILL want to hire you.

Very true, given the skillset. Even so, I was watching some PBS show, and they had a thing on there about job training for veterans. One of the employers they interviewed said, "I can train anyone to do the job. What I need is someone to show up." Apparently having people show up, repeatedly, on time, is now one of the bigger issues.

I'll throw in that before Covid, I had hired a mid-level programmer. He was with us for a month and left for another position that paid him $25K/year more than we were paying. A lot of it is just timing, having the desired skills at the right time.

And then there's this article that I just found, which goes into some of the mis-match that was referenced earlier in the thread.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

This is absolutely true, but it is a multi-layered problem. Even though I work for a university, I think they are a large part of the problem, convincing students that meaningless degrees will allow you to immediately secure a job as a middle manager in basket weaving making $150k a year. Part of my job involves managing a student IT helpdesk. We hire students, they usually work with our department for 4 years then when they graduate we assist them with finding jobs. Some of the job postings they send back to us are mind-blowing. The hiring managers have either lost their minds or are completely disconnected from reality. Many "entry-level" positions require 5 years of experience and a degree, which immediately disqualifies most fresh college grads unless they worked a part time job in that field.

Like it or not, $100k is the new $50k in many areas due to inflation and wages not keeping up. Some of the postings I've seen for companies in my area advertise starting "entry-level" wages of $37k for jobs requiring a degree amongst other things. In my area at least, $37k a year with student loan debt means you'll be living in mom's basement and riding a bike to work. These are not small mom and pop businesses either, these are large well known companies. One of my previous student workers interviewed for a job with an HR firm. The hiring manager and director both told their story of how long they had been at the company, and their humble beginnings of starting out without a college degree even, yet one of the disqualifying qualities of the candidate was not having a degree specifically in HR for the level 1 position they were hiring for.

I believe both arguments have merit and the solution lies somewhere in the middle. I was recently on a committee hiring a position that did not have many good applicants. We decided to add a small qualification or two and up the salary, and we instead received a pool of candidates that were 3-4x better than any of the previous applicants even though they were not being paid 3-4x more.

For the OP: networking is key. Attend job fairs, go out and meet people, reach out to hiring managers. Applying to jobs is a lot like dating in a way. Sending resumes to online postings can be like swiping on dating apps, employers are flooded with a lot of mediocre candidates they really have no interest in pursuing. Reach out to the companies, build connections, and make yourself stand out. If you truly work hard and are motivated people WILL want to hire you.

I agree with everything you said. As an environmental consulting/engineering firm, we do need folks with degrees. However, I could not give two farts about where you went to school or your GPA. I have many colleagues that get caught up in that and I think it's stupid. Maybe because I've worked with enough people with expensive degrees and impressive college GPAs to know that it does not automatically amount to a great worker/colleague. To me, I'm more interested in your personality, body language, how you answer questions, how personable you are, flat out tell me you don't know the answer, but then speculate on how you might figure it out, your goals and passions, and the like.

Here in Kansas City, we're typically starting out our entry level staff at $55K-70K depending on the job requirements and that's competitive to other firms in the area. Our East/West Coast entry level staff tend to come in a bit higher because of the cost of living.

I too also agree that folks need to understand the job market for the degree they're interested in. Many degrees are worthless.