[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Does the 2er still have the same terrible handling of the 1er?

You are in a very small minority if you think the 1er doesn't handle well.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

You are in a very small minority if you think the 1er doesn't handle well.

I owned one for four years. Awful. The 1M fixed it all, but that was just fixing all the things that they dumbed down from the 3er in the first place.

Stupidly harsh, way too stiff rebound control, no LSD, narrower track than it should have had, sway bar ratios were all sub optimal and the absurdly heavy steering. Even the six puck brakes didn't work properly and ate their seals under mild driving.

Every time we had an E9x loaner I realized what a mistake we'd made in picking that car. Worse, I drove my Z3 M Coupe every day. Kind of funny when a car with rear trailing arms and two piston sliding brakes works so much better.

This was with PSS non run flats. The stock RFTs went in a hurry, they just amplified the bad though, removing them helped, but certainly didn't fix anything.

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

You are in a very small minority if you think the 1er doesn't handle well.

Anyone who’s taken a stock 135 to the track or hit an on-ramp quicker then a SUV finds out pretty quick that they have a tendency to push. Even Randy here talks about its characteristics in stock form. Most owners can admit that they’re not fine handling sports coupes straight from the factory for many of the reasons Red has stated.
A tune quickly, cheaply removes his complaints about unsatisfying top end power and some suspension mods make the push issue almost disappear.

[Red Bread]

I didn't complain about the power. That N54 was a peach. Much better than our later N55 and I actually still like it more than the B58. Ours was JB4'ed, but even stock those are still great motors.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by N54Yankee

Anyone who’s taken a stock 135 to the track or hit an on-ramp quicker then a SUV finds out pretty quick that they have a tendency to push. Even Randy here talks about its characteristics in stock form. Most owners can admit that they’re not fine handling sports coupes straight from the factory for many of the reasons Red has stated.
A tune quickly, cheaply removes his complaints about unsatisfying top end power and some suspension mods make the push issue almost disappear.

I was just referring in general to the car's handling not specifically on track.

[N54Yankee]

I specifically mentioned on-ramps to demonstrate that the handling characteristics also apply for the street. I’ve been around this forum since 2010 before becoming a member when I bought my 135 and many here have complained about the cars street handling shortcomings and made efforts to successfully correct them, I wasn’t just referring to hot shoes on a track.

[Red Bread]

Like I said, just swapping the E9x parts back on helps immensely. I really don't understand why they handicapped the 1er so heavily. Hopefully they didn't do that again to the base 2er.

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by Fitz335

Throw a tune on the M240i and they're the same car. 3.8-3.9 second 0-60.

I'm talking st v stock.

No sunroof option for Supra? I'd be out too!

It should have been targa

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Does the 2er still have the same terrible handling of the 1er?

In BMW's own testing, the M235 on PSS tires and the optional LSD outran the 1M on the Ring. Overall, the M235/240 are better handlers than the 1 series for a multitude of reasons. In a Road Track comparison test, the M235 6MT/LSD was less than 0.5 seconds behind the M2 (N55) 6MT on a 2 mile road course with the same professional driver. The M235 is shod with narrower tires, smaller brakes, and less power than the M2. From the seat of the pants, the M2 feels more dialed in and focused than the M235/240, but the numbers don't show a huge difference. Simply adding 245 width front tires in place of the 225s makes a big difference. Lastly, most M235/240s are Xdrives with open diffs and narrow run flats. The handling would be pretty terrible by sports car standards.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I didn't complain about the power. That N54 was a peach. Much better than our later N55 and I actually still like it more than the B58. Ours was JB4'ed, but even stock those are still great motors.

I continue to scratch my head about this N54 "power". The 2014+ EWG N55 in the M235 makes around 310whp/330wtq stock and the M2 N55 makes around 330whp/370wtq (Dynojet numbers). Even better, the power peaks at 6200rpms and holds 90%+ of that power to 6700rpms. Show me a stock N54 that makes that sort of power or doesn't lose a ton power after 5500rpms. In tuned form (pump gas or ethanol) and assuming you don't swap out turbos, the EWG N55s tends to make a little more HP, more TQ, and it's power band is wider. In general, making for a quicker and faster car.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I continue to scratch my head about this N54 "power". The 2014+ EWG N55 in the M235 makes around 310whp/330wtq stock and the M2 N55 makes around 330whp/370wtq (Dynojet numbers). Even better, the power peaks at 6200rpms and holds 90%+ of that power to 6700rpms. Show me a stock N54 that makes that sort of power or doesn't lose a ton power after 5500rpms. In tuned form (pump gas or ethanol) and assuming you don't swap out turbos, the EWG N55s tends to make a little more HP, more TQ, and it's power band is wider. In general, making for a quicker and faster car.

Never seen a stock N55 hold power up high. This is base to base, you should see similar comparisons to the 1M vs M2 non comp curves too. The S55 and S58 clearly don't have these shortcomings.

[IMG]https://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/u...N54-vs-N55.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/u...ue-750x500.jpg[/IMG]

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I was just referring in general to the car's handling not specifically on track.

What is "handling" if it's not specifically on track? Track is the ultimate gauge in how a car "handles."

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by The HACK

What is "handling" if it's not specifically on track? Track is the ultimate gauge in how a car "handles."

Well yes a track may be the "ultimate gauge", but the majority of owners will likely never or rarely take their cars to the track and will end up daily driving them, so I meant handling as to how it is on backroads, and general road driving. Handling is a more general term, when most people discuss a car's handling, it isn't referring to how it does on track. the 1 and 2-series (non-M's) are road cars first, track second.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

Well yes a track may be the "ultimate gauge", but the majority of owners will likely never or rarely take their cars to the track and will end up daily driving them, so I meant handling as to how it is on backroads, and general road driving. Handling is a more general term, the 1 and 2-series (non-M's) are road cars first, track second.

That's GARBAGE. Only people who have zero clue as to what "handling" means would say that.

A car that handles well on the street should handle the track well, and vice versa. A car that can't "handle" track duties will drive like sh*t on the street, period. There's no magical car that handles great on the street, but can't handle a turn at speed on track.

This is the most asinine thing I've ever heard on here. Different standards for street and track handling? People who don't take their car on the track therefore HANDLING doesn't matter to them because it's only used for the streets?

Might as well all buy and drive Priuses.

[FitzMLife]

Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast

I'm talking st v stock.

No sunroof option for Supra? I'd be out too!

It should have been targa

I hope the Supra is a better car, it is 5k more.

But for 3500 I can put an LSD and Tune on the M240i, have a back seat, sunroof, manual, and have a better car.

If I wanted a pure track car I'd just buy a M2C.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by The HACK

That's GARBAGE. Only people who have zero clue as to what "handling" means would say that.

A car that handles well on the street should handle the track well, and vice versa. A car that can't "handle" track duties will drive like sh*t on the street, period. There's no magical car that handles great on the street, but can't handle a turn at speed on track.

This is the most asinine thing I've ever heard on here. Different standards for street and track handling? People who don't take their car on the track therefore HANDLING doesn't matter to them because it's only used for the streets?

Might as well all buy and drive Priuses.

You completely misinterpreted everything I said.

Nowhere did I compare street vs track driving, or say that a car that handles well on street doesn't handle well on track or vice versa, and no where did I say there are different standards for track vs street driving, or that people don't track their cars don't care about a car's handling.

All I said was that yes I agree with you that the track is an ultimate gauge of handling, however I also stated that most owners of cars like the 1,2, or 3-series don't take their cars to track or are buying them primarily for track, nor are these cars built with the track in mind as a priority. Now, that doesn't mean they won't handle well on track, because it still can, I'm just saying most people are not taking them to the track. Most want to have a car that handles well in general driving, thus they judge handling as to how well it drives in general circumstances whether that be on a curvy backroad or highway/general driving.

Handling is used as a general term to how a car feels when driving, when people describe a cars handling they may or may not be referring specifically to track driving. For example, I test drove the M340i and thought that the handling was decent after driving it on some curvy backroads. I did not drive it on a track yet I was able to assess the handling after driving it. Like I said, "handling" is pretty general of a term and can describe a wide variety of things. It can be used whether it be street, track, or both, etc. I advise you read my post clearly because no where does it say what you implicated.

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by Fitz335

I hope the Supra is a better car, it is 5k more.

But for 3500 I can put an LSD and Tune on the M240i, have a back seat, sunroof, manual, and have a better car.

If I wanted a pure track car I'd just buy a M2C.

Yea & I can make my Hellcat even faster with $3500 too. You are not getting the point

[Red Bread]

Looks like they're announcing a new version today, likely a 4 banger and possibly an available manual.

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Looks like they're announcing a new version today, likely a 4 banger and possibly an available manual.

They better announce much better pricing too. It's not a $50k car

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast

They netter announce much better pricing too. It's not a $50k car

I don't think they're going to take 50% of the cylinders out and then charge more.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I don't think they're going to take 50% of the cylinders out and then charge more.

This just in: Toyota, not the same company as Porsche.

[Alfisti]

So, would you take a brand spankers new Supra or a well kept 997.2 Carrera S with say 40,000 miles?

Food for thought.