[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast

They still make that thing?

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Ha, that was exactly what I thought.

Haha, that they do. Nissan seems to be milking the 370Z, Frontier, and GTR for as long as they can.

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/s...70z-coupe.html

[TXSTYLE]

I've seen a couple of different colors in my area. Definitely unique little car.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Haha, that they do. Nissan seems to be milking the 370Z, Frontier, and GTR for as long as they can.

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/s...70z-coupe.html

Nissan is where you pay today's prices for last decades vehicles. I have no idea why anyone would even bother to set foot in a Nissan dealership given the options available today.

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Nissan is where you pay today's prices for last decades vehicles. I have no idea why anyone would even bother to set foot in a Nissan dealership given the options available today.

Believe it or not, the Frontier sells quite well. A little over 70,000 units in the US for 2019, and almost 80,000 in 2018. The GTR on the other hand, sold 331 in 2019, and the 370z sold a little over 2300. Clearly the latter 2 are not being well received. It'll be cool to see how the new Z will fair tho with the VR38 and all.

[Alfisti]

Nissan are in all sorts of trouble, posting small profits but warning signs are there of a massive collapse.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Nissan is where you pay today's prices for last decades vehicles. I have no idea why anyone would even bother to set foot in a Nissan dealership given the options available today.

I mean is that REALLLLYY different than Toyota lol?

Toyota just cornered the market better but god damn their cars are dated, the trucks are riding on like 15 year old chassis using the same old NA V6 and V8s... they don't even have a single turbo car.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I mean is that REALLLLYY different than Toyota lol?

Toyota just cornered the market better but god damn their cars are dated, the trucks are riding on like 15 year old chassis using the same old NA V6 and V8s... they don't even have a single turbo car.

Uh, check thread title. I mean, sure it's a BMW, but...

[FitzMLife]

Originally Posted by duder13

I don't necessarily agree with that, even with early N55s, unless you're looking for power over 400whp, and even that is started to get negated when adding aftermarket turbos, the later N55 forged crank, etc. Outside of the obvious reliability advantage, the N55 feels better and sounds better than the N54, but I only have mine tuned to around 360 whp. Also, the N55 had better cooling in the block.

N55 does not sound better than an N54.

Also the n54 had forged internals from the beginning so BMW actually took a step back with the original n55s.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I mean is that REALLLLYY different than Toyota lol?

Toyota just cornered the market better but god damn their cars are dated, the trucks are riding on like 15 year old chassis using the same old NA V6 and V8s... they don't even have a single turbo car.

At least not in the US. Toyota produces a 1.2L turbo 4 for the overseas markets. Nothing to right home about but it is a turbo. There are other power plants Toyota has for overseas markets which don't show up here.

From what I've seen, Toyota is a conservative company which doesn't want to change what has made them successful. Building reliable cars. And their customer base focuses on this aspect rather than wanting exciting and new. Although this is starting to change with their sales numbers from competitors offering enough for people to look else where.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I mean is that REALLLLYY different than Toyota lol?

Toyota just cornered the market better but god damn their cars are dated, the trucks are riding on like 15 year old chassis using the same old NA V6 and V8s... they don't even have a single turbo car.

Toyota isn't a lot better but they have their reputation for reliability (which is largely due to re-using old tech) to fall back on and their new interiors at least look last gen as opposed to Nissans that look last decade. The latest Corolla and Camry aren't too shabby for entry level transportation and at least Toyota hasn't gone CVT crazy like Nissan, Subaru, Honda. The Japanese have all largely gone conservative over the last few decades as they have been last to jump on turbocharging, direct injection, advanced automatic gearboxes, etc. It's why I'm driving German cars almost exclusively as I don't care for domestics and most Japanese offerings are dated drivetrains and tech. They have totally left the door open for the Koreans who keep chipping away at their market shares.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Fitz335

N55 does not sound better than an N54.

Most would disagree with you. It's hard to get past the raspy sound of the split exhaust manifold and two turbos (the S55 sounds even worse). The N55 and B58 sound like amped up naturally aspirated I6s because of the six exhaust ports discharging through one single turbo.

Also the n54 had forged internals from the beginning so BMW actually took a step back with the original n55s.

A fully forged N54 is all speculation and something that has been proclaimed since the time of the N54, but never once proven with documentation that it actually equipped with all forged internals. Some earlier N54s have forged cranks, they all have forged rods (like most every other BMW), and they all have non-forged Hypereutectic pistons just like the N55 and B58. The N54 and N55 have open deck alum blocks, which are nearly identical except for some improved oil distribution jackets. The B58 is a closed deck alum block as it shares its block with the turbo diesel I6. The N54, N55, and B58 have alum heads.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Nissan are in all sorts of trouble, posting small profits but warning signs are there of a massive collapse.

Nissan is the next Mitsubishi. The 370Z is what, 12 years old at this point?

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Nissan is the next Mitsubishi. The 370Z is what, 12 years old at this point?

Almost 20 years old now
Nissan FM chassis debuted in 2001 in the JDM V35 Skyline ie infiniti G35
The only difference in the 370z is the VQ37 vs VQ35 on the 350z

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

The only difference in the 370z is the VQ37 vs VQ35 on the 350z

But also, every single body panel, every single piece of the interior, the wheelbase and the track width.

It's a bit like the Fox body Mustang going to the SN195 Mustang of the mid-90's. They ride on a modified version of the same chassis.

[See5]

The 2021 3.0 is going to be a seriously quick car. Should be a heads up race with a Mustang GT/Camaro SS auto.

Reminds me of a budget Mercedes GT and not much slower than a base one at that.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Toyota isn't a lot better but they have their reputation for reliability (which is largely due to re-using old tech) to fall back on and their new interiors at least look last gen as opposed to Nissans that look last decade. The latest Corolla and Camry aren't too shabby for entry level transportation and at least Toyota hasn't gone CVT crazy like Nissan, Subaru, Honda. The Japanese have all largely gone conservative over the last few decades as they have been last to jump on turbocharging, direct injection, advanced automatic gearboxes, etc. It's why I'm driving German cars almost exclusively as I don't care for domestics and most Japanese offerings are dated drivetrains and tech. They have totally left the door open for the Koreans who keep chipping away at their market shares.

I don't really think Toyota is targeting enthusiasts. It's an appliance to get from a to b. Most people just want it to be cheap, reliable and get decent gas mileage. They don't know or care about turbos or CVT vs DCT.

I actually got a 2020 Corolla as a rental in CA for like 2 weeks. I liked the little car so much ended up buying one when I got home. Wanted another car as the girlfriend doesn't like to drive the F350 or the C7 and honestly I don't like driving the F350 around town either and I only take out the C7 on nice days. Was looking at Accords also but just ended up getting a 2020 Corolla, whatever the basic package is, only has wheels and keyless entry.

Honestly for like 18k new I think it's a great little car if you're not an enthusiast. I mean it has more features than I would have expected in a basic Corolla. Apple carplay, adaptive cruise, bsm, lane keep assist, led headlights (freaking most brands still put halogen lights on their entry level cars). Has enough power for the average person and gets 30+ mpg with no turbos or anything like that to worry about. I also find the new interior to actually look pretty good, I actually like it more than the Camry interior.

Saw like 3 supras at the track this weekend, I think the design is growing on me. I think I would take the supra over the Z4.

[duder13]

Originally Posted by Fitz335

N55 does not sound better than an N54.

Also the n54 had forged internals from the beginning so BMW actually took a step back with the original n55s.

XuTV already said it, but the N55 is widely known to sound better than the N54 and S55 for the reasons he mentioned.

As far as the forged crank, it only matters if you’re making crazy horsepower through mods, and you can always swap one in from a newer N55. The only reason to really pick an N54 over an N55 is if you’re doing some kind of bonkers 800hp build, although nowadays even that isn’t certain. The oil distribution of the N55 is better.

As far as the Supra is concerned, I’ve now seen 5 of them, and I just think it’s overwrought. It’s like they threw in a million creases, folds and (fake) vents in order to confuse the mind enough not to focus on a single bad element. I’d still rather buy a used Cayman, since we’re not even getting a real Toyota’s reliability.

[JasonCSU]

I was at one of the local Toyota dealers this weekend having my Tacoma serviced, and I counted 10 Supras on the lot. This particular dealer was insanely busy with service appoints and shoppers that day, but even with that much showroom traffic, I didn't notice a single person interested in any of the Supras other than myself.

[spiceyxi]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

I was at one of the local Toyota dealers this weekend having my Tacoma serviced, and I counted 10 Supras on the lot. This particular dealer was insanely busy with service appoints and shoppers that day, but even with that much showroom traffic, I didn't notice a single person interested in any of the Supras other than myself.

Are they still trying to get MSRP+? I can't wait to see how they handle the 385hp and 335hp versions sitting on the lot next to each other.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by spiceyxi

Are they still trying to get MSRP+? I can't wait to see how they handle the 385hp and 335hp versions sitting on the lot next to each other.

I'm already starting to see discounts of 5-7% here in the Bay area
The car I went to see in person only to realize how fast&furious the fake vents are was marked up $15k
The same white Supra premium is now $4500 off

[The HACK]

This is playing out almost exactly like BMW's own E86 Z4 M Coupe launch.

The mighty E86 Coupe was launched in March of 2006 to much fanfare. "OMG S54 in a 200 lbs lighter chassis than the E46 M3? With more than 2X the structural rigidity? Coupled with BMW's greatest steering rack ever from the E36 M3? Sign me the f**k up!" I remember walking in to my favorite BMW dealership to my favorite BMW General Sales Manager and said "I want one and I want it now." He smiled at me and asked how much over MSRP was I willing to pay for the one they had coming in 6 weeks.

I balked at the idea of paying mark-up, so I placed an order for one at MSRP. To this day still the ONLY car I have ever paid more than factory invoice for in more in more than 20 years of car buying and ownership experience. Deposit was accepted in March. Production date was slated for August...Because EVERY SINGLE ONE of their allocation has been spoke for until then, and they're the number 3 BMW dealership in the country so they actually had 2 coming in every month.

When I picked it up on first week of September, I have only ever seen one other Z4 M Coupe IRL outside of dealership lots. Up until the month of maybe early October, in a 100 mile radius in the highest BMW dealership density area in the world, there's maybe 2-3 available on all the lots combined. We're talking about 10-12 BMW dealership within a 50 mile radius. Every one of them demanded a $10,000 mark-up.

Spoke with the same General Sales Manager near the end of November, because I wanted to get an E92 for my wife to replace her E60 545i (because, you know, REPAIR BILLS). Took a walk through their lot and I counted 6 Z4 M Coupes on the floor. So I asked him about it, and grimly he told me that they couldn't give them away. In fact, there's a $5,000 trunk cash to move them (at the time. The trunk cash increased to $10,000 by next April), and that BMW may have totally mis-calculated the demand and started producing them at a much higher pace (there were total of 3xx built in 2006 for world wide consumption. They basically doubled the production volume for 2007 and 2008 to come to 4,xxx total made if memory serves). By late 2007 they were all being sold for invoice MINUS the $10,000 trunk cash, making them around $48K out the door for one that's minimally optioned. I paid $56K MSRP for mine plus nearly 10% tax.

By all means, the Zupra is a fantastic car. So was the Z4 M Coupe. It's just, really, the market for a 2 seater sport car is depressed and often over estimated. There really isn't that much room here for more than a few cars per segment, and you've got pressure from the lower end in the form of a Miata and the Toyobaru, and spend another $5 grand in features and you're in mid engine C8 Corvette range. In the same pricing category you've got far more practical solutions that are nearly as fast if not faster in Crapstangs and Mullet-maros, both have back seats and far more sensible if it's going to be your ONLY car.

Plus direct competition from BMW in the forms of the E46 M3 for the Z4 M Coupe (2 more seats, $8,000 less MSRP) and M2 Competition (2 more seats, marginally more expensive). Had they (BMW and Yota) priced both the Z4 M Coupe and the Supra about $10,000 less, I believe there's a legitimate market that exists that DO want a funky little sporty car like this.

But not big enough to support selling more than a few thousand copies a year, IMO.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by spiceyxi

Are they still trying to get MSRP+? I can't wait to see how they handle the 385hp and 335hp versions sitting on the lot next to each other.

I am guessing they are, but I also didn't ask. The place was so busy that I was never approached by any sales people while I was looking around. I was curious and wanted to ask the same question.