[EricVR4]

Originally Posted by Soterios

I think you're confusing his point like I was.

The type of person he's talking about owns the 2018 M3 and buys the 2020 because they upgraded to heated AND vented seats. He's saying that person isn't a car enthusiast. (His argument, not mine)

Ahhh, ok then yeah that's fair.

Originally Posted by Delta0311

That person is an idiot unless that person has so much money that buying a new M3 is like buying a microwave. But than again a person with cash flow like that is not buying M3s and probably had a full timr driver.

And yeah doing that is stupid but for a whole different reason. It's just dumping money down the drain haha

[jqsmooth]

If people have the money to burn and if it makes them happy, there's no better time to be alive than today. There are so many options out there to fill everyone's needs and desires from new to used car market. Personally, I'm gonna stick to what I know and have been proven. Sure, I'll make the leap one day to another car but for now, will hold on and take care of what I got. M4 CS deals had me thinking for a split second...

[P1]

"Greatest is when man/woman and machine form a bond and trust that allows the machine to become a part of a person's life."

That's deep, bro.

[Flacht3]

Originally Posted by 10"

... What I don't seem to understand though is what stops you from keeping the GT3? How much do you drive it? Daily? Monthly?...

Clearly you are someone into motor cars and I am certainly not doubting that for a minute; but does trading a great car like a GT3 for a next generation GT3 RS really result in happiness or is it just the adventure of "starting again" that is the pleasure here? Genuine question.

...You said you love the GT3 more than all the you've ever owned combined; so what stops you from keeping it? You took delivery of it with your father and spec'd it yourself—-is it "just a car"? To me it sounds more like an experience in itself and more of a companion.

Drive it weekly, usually a weekend toy then maybe one day of commuting. My GT3 (to me) is a whole other experience vs. a true commuter car like my X1 which I have about as much emotional connection to as I do to my blender or toothbrush.

But what stops me from keeping it (and this is all hypothetical, maybe I still keep it 5+ years down the road) is a combination of a few things and one of those that you can't discount is the thrill of the hunt.

Sure driving/owning a car is 90% of the fun but man that 10% of hunting one down, whether it be combing through used car classifieds or speccing one new and waiting for delivery is a blast in itself (to me).

Yea I have great memories of tracking down this GT3 allocation, taking delivery with my father etc. but they're memories...they won't leave when the car is gone. And I'll get a chance to make new memories. Just because you're hopping into a new car doesn't mean the history and love of the previous vehicle is erased.

Next up is the simple fact that we're living in a time where the automotive limits are pushed and re-defined every 5ish years. I mean look at the fricken C8, and we have soccer mom Teslas doing 0-60 in 2ish seconds. If the 992.2 RS still has a flat 6 revving to 9k, with hybrid assist, a carbon tub, active aero etc. then you better bet I'm going to want to want to experience that and make that my new companion for the next 5 years of memories. Will it be world-changing beyond a 991.2 GT3? Probably not. But will it be enough for me to want to move on...probably. But tell you what, if the 992 RS is electric and the days of a screaming flat 6 are gone then I'm holding onto my 991.2 for as long as I live but I still think we have 10 years before that will be our reality.

Now you have the ultimate factor and that's money. I would wholeheartedly keep my GT3 FOREVER if I lived free of financial constraints, but I don't. If I did, I'd have the GT3 in a 12 car garage with new cars rotating in every 2-5 years while holding onto some of them forever until the US bans combustion engines in totality, and then it'll become a museum and shrine to great memories had. But alas, that world doesn't exist for me, so I'll probably keep a 2-3 car garage with something new rotating in every few years which unfortunately means something else has to go.

Ideally, in a semi-realistic financial world, I would have a 3 car garage with a long-term keeper that is special in both the car itself and the memories (think 458, maybe your 1M, something you simply won't see again for whatever reason) then a high-performance weekend car that I can swap every 3-5 years to try the newest sensation (think GT3, latest lambo, McLaren, etc.) and then my daily driver that is essentially an appliance I beat into the ground, rinse and repeat.

[Humdizzle]

Finally got to see a .2 gt3 up close in person at cars and coffee. Had some seat time in a .1 on track, but it didn't have the carbon buckets and of course, no manual. This guy had his spec on point. ceramics, carbon buckets, 6mt. I've put my 458 up for sale (had it 3 years) and i think i'll be moving into a 6 speed gt3 in the next few months

The GT3 is more reliable, better built, newer tech. I still get an NA motor with a 9000 rpm redline. And i can get a 6 speed. I'd say it would probably be cheaper to maintain than a 10 year old ferrari as well. Plus my dealer will be 1.5 hours away rather than 6 hours.

Overall i'll be getting a newer car, won't really lose any money (used 458 is about the same price as a new gt3), so i really see no downsides to the upgrade

I'll still probably miss the exotic ferrari looks and just how low/wide it is.

I did see an RS later on that day too (maybe a sign??)

[10"]

Originally Posted by Flacht3

Next up is the simple fact that we're living in a time where the automotive limits are pushed and re-defined every 5ish years. I mean look at the fricken C8, and we have soccer mom Teslas doing 0-60 in 2ish seconds. If the 992.2 RS still has a flat 6 revving to 9k, with hybrid assist, a carbon tub, active aero etc. then you better bet I'm going to want to want to experience that and make that my new companion for the next 5 years of memories. Will it be world-changing beyond a 991.2 GT3? Probably not. But will it be enough for me to want to move on...probably.

I had to pull this paragraph out of your well thought out reply because I think it describes the essence of "latest and greatest". I don't think I understand the essence of this statement. For the past 25 years or more I feel cars have consistently become more and more DISconnected rather than connected. The primary advancements are electronic and technical rather than tactile. Seeing the direction things are heading in I definitely don't see the "limits" being pushed; instead I see the buffer between driver and machine getting enlarged. It used to be that the driver was a key component of the driving experience and now with electronic everything, massive driver assistance technology, and a push towards imaginary Nurburgring lap times that 98% never do—-the technical statistics have become the priority.

I'd argue the "greatest" cars are behind us. Perhaps the difference here is whether one is an optimist or a pessimist in regards to the state of the motor car. I have planted myself firm in the pessimist camp. If I hear someone say 997GT3 my ears perk up—-if I hear them say 2023 GT3 I think of an inferior car in terms of enjoyment.

[FuriouslyFast]

I just sold my 3rd Vette (600+ WHP) to finally scratch my itch for a classic car (60s muscle hopefully) However, if the C7Z prices come way down, I might have to go that route. Hell, I might even get another Miata. I want too many cars...

[Flacht3]

Originally Posted by 10"

I had to pull this paragraph out of your well thought out reply because I think it describes the essence of "latest and greatest". I don't think I understand the essence of this statement. For the past 25 years or more I feel cars have consistently become more and more DISconnected rather than connected. The primary advancements are electronic and technical rather than tactile. Seeing the direction things are heading in I definitely don't see the "limits" being pushed; instead I see the buffer between driver and machine getting enlarged. It used to be that the driver was a key component of the driving experience and now with electronic everything, massive driver assistance technology, and a push towards imaginary Nurburgring lap times that 98% never do—-the technical statistics have become the priority.

I'd argue the "greatest" cars are behind us. Perhaps the difference here is whether one is an optimist or a pessimist in regards to the state of the motor car. I have planted myself firm in the pessimist camp. If I hear someone say 997GT3 my ears perk up—-if I hear them say 2023 GT3 I think of an inferior car in terms of enjoyment.

So based on this argument, if I traded it in for a Singer 911 that would be fine since I'm moving towards a more raw car but If I trade in for a 918 that's not fine since it's a more computer driven car?

IMO "chasing the latest and greatest" doesn't mean you're chasing the latest version or the newest features, it just means you want something new. The average person is ready to switch things up every few years. But the guy (putting my flame suit on) who's trading in his F8X every year because he wants a new headlight design that 90% of the population can't notice isn't my cup of tea either...but it's their money and to each their own...whatever makes you happy.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I also marvel at the feats of engineering auto makers can pull off. Just because that 918 is very much a giant computer doesn't mean I can't appreciate the steps it took in design and engineering to get there, and then also enjoy the ride it provides.

[Jbravo33]

I have every intention on keeping my current manual GT3 and passing it down to my son who is currently 3 and absolutely loves it. I haven't felt this connection to a car since 2001 when I had an e46 M3. At 19 I wasn't appreciative as I am now (37) I wish I never sold that M3. Probably will be buying another one in the future but i wish I had kept mine for the simple fact of all the after market parts I had that made it a one off. AC Schnitzer from top to bottom. From wheels to lip, diffuser, silver cf interior, roll cage etc. Literally everything. I've started modding GT3 only cuz I plan to keep it. For me 500hp manual car that weighs 3000lbs is more than enough. I don't need anything faster. If so then might as well build a track car. For weekend driving, road trips this car fills a void I have had for over a decade.

I'd say it's all relative to where you are in life and timing. Nothing wrong with leasing an M every few years. Literally what I was about to do. Canceled my 2020 f83 order day after I got confirmation of all the individual options I had wanted got approved. Said to myself I'm gonna spend 50k (plus mods) over the next 3 years and have nothing to show for it after 36months. Most likely would be a year into lease and probably want something else. So I bit the bullet and went this route. Something long term that can stay in the family and have a story behind it.

[10"]

Originally Posted by Jbravo33

I have every intention on keeping my current manual GT3 and passing it down to my son who is currently 3 and absolutely loves it. I haven't felt this connection to a car since 2001 when I had an e46 M3. At 19 I wasn't appreciative as I am now (37) I wish I never sold that M3. Probably will be buying another one in the future but i wish I had kept mine for the simple fact of all the after market parts I had that made it a one off. AC Schnitzer from top to bottom. From wheels to lip, diffuser, silver cf interior, roll cage etc. Literally everything. I've started modding GT3 only cuz I plan to keep it. For me 500hp manual car that weighs 3000lbs is more than enough. I don't need anything faster. If so then might as well build a track car. For weekend driving, road trips this car fills a void I have had for over a decade.

I'd say it's all relative to where you are in life and timing. Nothing wrong with leasing an M every few years. Literally what I was about to do. Canceled my 2020 f83 order day after I got confirmation of all the individual options I had wanted got approved. Said to myself I'm gonna spend 50k (plus mods) over the next 3 years and have nothing to show for it after 36months. Most likely would be a year into lease and probably want something else. So I bit the bullet and went this route. Something long term that can stay in the family and have a story behind it.

Fantastic!!! What a beauty.

These are the kind of stories I enjoy. My son is 4 and loves our 1M. I have always told him "I'm giving this to you so it's your car too" and he even helps me clean it!!

Love the interior on your GT3

[Jbravo33]

Originally Posted by 10"

Fantastic!!! What a beauty.

These are the kind of stories I enjoy. My son is 4 and loves our 1M. I have always told him "I'm giving this to you so it's your car too" and he even helps me clean it!!

Love the interior on your GT3

Thanks! That's so awesome. Such a fun age right now. Minds are such sponges. First thing he says on our first ride "daddy what's that" as he's pointing to the shifter. I said "buddy that's a manual shifter, when I was a kid race cars had 3 pedals" lol.

His first car will undoubtedly be a manual. Just not this one. 😬

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Flacht3

So based on this argument, if I traded it in for a Singer 911 that would be fine since I'm moving towards a more raw car but If I trade in for a 918 that's not fine since it's a more computer driven car?

IMO "chasing the latest and greatest" doesn't mean you're chasing the latest version or the newest features, it just means you want something new. The average person is ready to switch things up every few years. But the guy (putting my flame suit on) who's trading in his F8X every year because he wants a new headlight design that 90% of the population can't notice isn't my cup of tea either...but it's their money and to each their own...whatever makes you happy.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I also marvel at the feats of engineering auto makers can pull off. Just because that 918 is very much a giant computer doesn't mean I can't appreciate the steps it took in design and engineering to get there, and then also enjoy the ride it provides.

Exactly, if you can afford it and that's what you want.................why is that my concern?

Granted it's on a way different monetary scale, but it's no different than, "My current cell phone works perfectly and does everything else I want, but I still want the new hotness."

That's why I still have an old Pixel 2 phone. It works, does what I need it to, the back is cracked, but the screen isn't and doing excellent. If I want to drop $1000 on a phone, why should anyone else care?

If that's how people choose to spend their money instead of making sure they won't be eating Alpo in a crummy, retirement home. Why should I care?

I can't imagine being so concerned with what other people do with their money.

[10"]

Originally Posted by Jbravo33

Thanks! That's so awesome. Such a fun age right now. Minds are such sponges. First thing he says on our first ride "daddy what's that" as he's pointing to the shifter. I said "buddy that's a manual shifter, when I was a kid race cars had 3 pedals" lol.

His first car will undoubtedly be a manual. Just not this one. 😬

Totally agree man!! Love it. These days I put him in my lap while we reverse into our garage spot in the parking garage. He loves it. Glad to see there is SOME hope for the next generation with kids like yours and mine!

[10"]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Exactly, if you can afford it and that's what you want.................why is that my concern?

Granted it's on a way different monetary scale, but it's no different than, "My current cell phone works perfectly and does everything else I want, but I still want the new hotness."

That's why I still have an old Pixel 2 phone. It works, does what I need it to, the back is cracked, but the screen isn't and doing excellent. If I want to drop $1000 on a phone, why should anyone else care?

If that's how people choose to spend their money instead of making sure they won't be eating Alpo in a crummy, retirement home. Why should I care?

I can't imagine being so concerned with what other people do with their money.

So using your somewhat flat argument; why do you care if I care what other people do with their money? You obviously cared enough to post about how much you care about not caring!

This is a forum. A forum is for discussion. I'm not blocking anyone's line of credit; just a motoring enthusiast raising a topic.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by 10"

So using your somewhat flat argument; why do you care if I care what other people do with their money? You obviously cared enough to post about how much you care about not caring!

This is a forum. A forum is for discussion. I'm not blocking anyone's line of credit; just a motoring enthusiast raising a topic.

Yeah, I saw that retort coming from a mile away. This is like basic 7th grade debate in here.

[10"]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Yeah, I saw that retort coming from a mile away. This is like basic 7th grade debate in here.

2nd grade if you saw the reply coming still felt the need to get involved

Fortunately there have been plenty of others who have had great replies and conversation.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by 10"

The frequent vehicle swapping behavior of 'modern' car enthusiasts is very unbecoming. Whatever happened to traditional car ownership where people saved up for the car they really wanted, bought it, and then maintained it, drove it endlessly, repaired it, drove it more, passed it down to their kid, etc.? What happened to the enthusiasts who weren't swayed by marketing and hype? What happened to the ones who knew what they wanted and knew that a car is just an object that serves as a companion to their lives? These days, I see people ordering custom paints and options, even European deliveries, and then watch them trade their car in 20 months later for sometimes a lightly face-lifted counterpart. Or, even worse, they switch to an 'upgraded' model that has a 'Ring time that is six seconds faster.

What caused this fleeting attention deficit to happen? My guess is some of this has been caused by the rising popularity of leasing but i don't think that's the primary reason. I think people are far more naive to marketing and online publicity these days than ever. They're also pushed by the shallow pursuit of social media introductions and exhibitionism. And people are attracted to 'tech' more than ever, so the constant addition of new tech has been like a fishing hook attracting everybody's money.

I'd like to propose that people think about being more old school. Before I bought the 1M, I used to daydream about buying other cars and play that 'imaginary' car shopping game with myself on eBay all the time. It felt toxic and empty and shallow, to be honest. I ended up buying my modern 'dream car' and in my 5 years of ownership I have never wanted anything else. It has 90k miles on it, and I am looking forward to the next 90k miles and then handing it down to my kid afterwards.

Yes, it's ok to own cars out of warranty. No, it's not more expensive than buying a new car every 50k miles. Yes, it's actually more satisfying to learn and bond with a car over many miles and years. No, a new car smell is not more satisfying than a distinctive older car smell! Latest is not greatest. It's just the latest. Greatest is when man/woman and machine form a bond and trust that allows the machine to become a part of a person's life. I know there are BMW and other car owners on here who have owned the same cars for a long, long time. To all of them I salute you! In my opinion, you are true motoring enthusiasts! Feel free to share your story!

Mods are relatively cheap compared to repairs. Many "enthusiasts" don't have the $$, the desire, the space and/or equipment to repair/maintain an out of warranty vehicle nor the luxury of having it sit idle waiting on parts.

[10"]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Mods are relatively cheap compared to repairs. Many "enthusiasts" don't have the $$, the desire, the space and/or equipment to repair/maintain an out of warranty vehicle nor the luxury of having it sit idle waiting on parts.

Not sure how these enthusiasts don't have money to repair but magically have the money to buy new cars.

Must the delusional power of leasing! lol

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by 10"

Not sure how these enthusiasts don't have money to repair but magically have the money to buy new cars.

Must the delusional power of leasing! lol

Well, it's easier to budget $X/mo on a lease (especially if it's a business expense) vs shelling out four figure chuncks a couple of times a year along with the associated downtime.

I guess in the end it's about how you define "enthusiast". Is it the self-employed serial leasee or the finance/cash buy-n-hold for a decade?

From my own anecdotal experience there are quite a few BMWCCA members who've owned ten more BMWs over a 20yr+ period.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by 10"

Not sure how these enthusiasts don't have money to repair but magically have the money to buy new cars.

Must the delusional power of leasing! lol

this is why many people lease. you get a new car every few years that's covered by warranty. They never have to even buy a toolkit. Just park the car in a cramped parking garage and never worry. take it to the dealer and get a loaner if something happens.

I have a house with plenty of space and cars. if one is down I don't need to worry. not everyone has that luxury. just some garage parking spots in Chicago are worth as much as a 330i.. and you still don't have much room to work on your car.

I don't think leasing and being an enthusiast are mutually exclusive. Neither is being able to work on a car or not... if you enjoy cars in any facet and like driving... you're an enthusiast in my book.

[eluded]

Originally Posted by Jbravo33

current manual GT3

Love the stick, seats and yellow calipers. Nice.

[GenXer]

Originally Posted by 10"

The frequent vehicle swapping behavior of 'modern' car enthusiasts is very unbecoming. Whatever happened to traditional car ownership where people saved up for the car they really wanted, bought it, and then maintained it, drove it endlessly, repaired it, drove it more, passed it down to their kid, etc.? What happened to the enthusiasts who weren't swayed by marketing and hype? What happened to the ones who knew what they wanted and knew that a car is just an object that serves as a companion to their lives? These days, I see people ordering custom paints and options, even European deliveries, and then watch them trade their car in 20 months later for sometimes a lightly face-lifted counterpart. Or, even worse, they switch to an 'upgraded' model that has a 'Ring time that is six seconds faster.



What caused this fleeting attention deficit to happen? My guess is some of this has been caused by the rising popularity of leasing but i don't think that's the primary reason. I think people are far more naive to marketing and online publicity these days than ever. They're also pushed by the shallow pursuit of social media introductions and exhibitionism. And people are attracted to 'tech' more than ever, so the constant addition of new tech has been like a fishing hook attracting everybody's money.

I'd like to propose that people think about being more old school. Before I bought the 1M, I used to daydream about buying other cars and play that 'imaginary' car shopping game with myself on eBay all the time. It felt toxic and empty and shallow, to be honest. I ended up buying my modern 'dream car' and in my 5 years of ownership I have never wanted anything else. It has 90k miles on it, and I am looking forward to the next 90k miles and then handing it down to my kid afterwards.

Yes, it's ok to own cars out of warranty. No, it's not more expensive than buying a new car every 50k miles. Yes, it's actually more satisfying to learn and bond with a car over many miles and years. No, a new car smell is not more satisfying than a distinctive older car smell! Latest is not greatest. It's just the latest. Greatest is when man/woman and machine form a bond and trust that allows the machine to become a part of a person's life. I know there are BMW and other car owners on here who have owned the same cars for a long, long time. To all of them I salute you! In my opinion, you are true motoring enthusiasts! Feel free to share your story!

I don't buy top of the line stuff but I do enjoy driving a new car/truck and I get bored easily. I'm a fool with my money and I've just seen 2 of my cousins -- one younger and one older than me died millionaires. So why not enjoy it when you can; especially if you're not bothering anyone? As a matter of fact, I bought 3 new cars this year.

I also grew up poor and watched my dad perpetually tinkering with old used cars that are always broken down before, during and after a trip. Trying to fix broken this and broken that in the cold of winter at our apartment parking lot. I'm tired of shining that flashlight and tired of a busted thumb or cuts and bruises.

Now, all of my cars are always under warranty, always under free service so when I have an issue or a problem I just call the dealer to come and take care of it.