[Alan l.]

I don't think that is the case. I look at it BMW used the XM as test case platform for the new M5 power train which they know will sell a lot more than the XM.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

I don't think that is the case. I look at it BMW used the XM as test case platform for the new M5 power train which they know will sell a lot more than the XM.

dumb question...

why are the x5 and x7 m60i exempt from these so called regulations lol? both sell VASTLY more than the M5

they are mild hybrid versions of the m5 motor w less power... they forego the larger plug in battery and are as a result lighter suv's than the m5 is a performance sedan...

likely bmw didnt want to do the testing on a 700+ hp S68 w out any electric boost as they knew it wouldnt be used anywhere else... was easier to pop in the xm powertrain which was ready and sell it as a some bizzare ev benefit in a 700 hp 5400 lb performance car... yet u still get penalized w a gas guzzler tax becauze the efficiency still isnt good... must be all those londoners traveling to work in their m5's on the daily forcing these regulations lol

[zinner]

easy they are trucks and need the power to do business activities

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by ASAP

dumb question...

why are the x5 and x7 m60i exempt from these so called regulations lol? both sell VASTLY more than the M5

they are mild hybrid versions of the m5 motor w less power... they forego the larger plug in battery and are as a result lighter suv's than the m5 is a performance sedan...

likely bmw didnt want to do the testing on a 700+ hp S68 w out any electric boost as they knew it wouldnt be used anywhere else... was easier to pop in the xm powertrain which was ready and sell it as a some bizzare ev benefit in a 700 hp 5400 lb performance car... yet u still get penalized w a gas guzzler tax becauze the efficiency still isnt good... must be all those londoners traveling to work in their m5's on the daily forcing these regulations lol

You have such a massive hate boner for the G90 it's hilarious, resorted to calling them "so called emissions regulations".

You can know this wasn't done by choice purely because it's not financially beneficial to BMW, it's a more expensive powertrain/drivetrain to manufacture which cuts into their net profit due to there being a elasticity of demand wall, basically they're being squeezed from both sides: COGS goes up but they can't raise the prices to offset it because demand drops off too hard on the topside if they do.

Also this kind of full bore hybrid setup makes a big difference vs the mild hybrid pseudo stuff. There's markets where this G90 is significantly cheaper then a optioned out M3 because of the way those governments have setup their regs and incentives.

And finally the next gen of the X5/6 loses the V8 entirely, it's smaller engines or EV. This hybrid setup should be what the M versions get if we're lucky. Not sure about the X7 but it's probably getting the same treatment.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

You have such a massive hate boner for the G90 it's hilarious, resorted to calling them "so called emissions regulations".

You can know this wasn't done by choice purely because it's not financially beneficial to BMW, it's a more expensive powertrain/drivetrain to manufacture which cuts into their net profit due to there being a elasticity of demand wall, basically they're being squeezed from both sides: COGS goes up but they can't raise the prices to offset it because demand drops off too hard on the topside if they do.

Also this kind of full bore hybrid setup makes a big difference vs the mild hybrid pseudo stuff. There's markets where this G90 is significantly cheaper then a optioned out M3 because of the way those governments have setup their regs and incentives.

And finally the next gen of the X5/6 loses the V8 entirely, it's smaller engines or EV. This hybrid setup should be what the M versions get if we're lucky. Not sure about the X7 but it's probably getting the same treatment.

i get you're passionate on the subject... and yet you still didnt answer why the M5 needed a powerplant like this when Euro 7 emission targes are fleetwide... so again, why this powerplant and neuter a top tier performance car? this car is fractions of a percent of the total BMW fleet...

and again... how big are these markets where the tiny volume of this car remotely matters? are you the guy going to London city center in your 700 hp car with cameras watching you everywhere and 25 mph speed limits? well its a good thing you can use your ev only mode there lol and still end up w a paltry 17 mpg

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i get you're passionate on the subject... and yet you still didnt answer why the M5 needed a powerplant like this when Euro 7 emission targes are fleetwide... so again, why this powerplant and neuter a top tier performance car? this car is fractions of a percent of the total BMW fleet...

and again... how big are these markets where the tiny volume of this car remotely matters? are you the guy going to London city center in your 700 hp car with cameras watching you everywhere and 25 mph speed limits? well its a good thing you can use your ev only mode there lol and still end up w a paltry 17 mpg

because CAFE standards (50mpg average by 2031) + others demand it. There's no way to meet the fleet requirements without converting a ton of said fleet to PHEV and EV, particularly the low mpg parts of said fleet. And EV demand hasn't matched expectations so there's even more pressure to at least get PHEV into as much of the fleet as possible.


and upon further research it looks like BMWUSA won a little battle with HQ to get the V8 in the X5 for next gen in the U.S, but it won't be in most other markets. So we got a little lifeline but this is the way the market is going purely due to regulations, instead of lashing out just accept it and enjoy the V8s while you still can.

[JK479]

Originally Posted by WWM3

Then why didn’t they include them in the 2026 pricing guide? They aren’t coming IMO.

In March rolling changes sometimes appear. You’re probably right but I know they do release changes in the middle of the model year by sneaking them in for March

Back in 2005 I had a 06 on order and because it was a 5- I had a two month wait. Ordered last day of the year 05… it took three months and rolling changes in March actually brought a “Start Button” where some 06’s had the crank.

I will agree lack of self closing seriously sucks. It’s such a nice option like vented seats or heated steering wheel.

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

And finally the next gen of the X5/6 loses the V8 entirely, it's smaller engines or EV. This hybrid setup should be what the M versions get if we're lucky. Not sure about the X7 but it's probably getting the same treatment.

I thought it's been confirmed the next gen X5/6 will keep the V8 M60i trim. I remember reading somewhere that BMWUSA was able to convince BMWAG to keep the V8.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by ASAP

dumb question...

why are the x5 and x7 m60i exempt from these so called regulations lol? both sell VASTLY more than the M5

they are mild hybrid versions of the m5 motor w less power... they forego the larger plug in battery and are as a result lighter suv's than the m5 is a performance sedan...

likely bmw didnt want to do the testing on a 700+ hp S68 w out any electric boost as they knew it wouldnt be used anywhere else... was easier to pop in the xm powertrain which was ready and sell it as a some bizzare ev benefit in a 700 hp 5400 lb performance car... yet u still get penalized w a gas guzzler tax becauze the efficiency still isnt good... must be all those londoners traveling to work in their m5's on the daily forcing these regulations lol

Not that they are exempted but there is nothing BMW could do about it given they are using the old chassis platform. You can't just go and change a car to phev at the tail end of its production cycle

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i get you're passionate on the subject... and yet you still didnt answer why the M5 needed a powerplant like this when Euro 7 emission targes are fleetwide... so again, why this powerplant and neuter a top tier performance car? this car is fractions of a percent of the total BMW fleet...

and again... how big are these markets where the tiny volume of this car remotely matters? are you the guy going to London city center in your 700 hp car with cameras watching you everywhere and 25 mph speed limits? well its a good thing you can use your ev only mode there lol and still end up w a paltry 17 mpg

You are leaving out the fact that there are people that welcome this EV aspect of the M5. Think how many folks rips their M5 around a track vs those that use it as a daily transportation percentage wise. Whatever. You are hell bent on this topic and continue to clutter every single thread here. Not even sure why you bother when there's a dedicated forum for the X3.

Alan

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

You are leaving out the fact that there are people that welcome this EV aspect of the M5. Think how many folks rips their M5 around a track vs those that use it as a daily transportation percentage wise. Whatever. You are hell bent on this topic and continue to clutter every single thread here. Not even sure why you bother when there's a dedicated forum for the X3.

Alan

I'm kinda looking forward to it actually, people are so negative nowadays only looking for flaws and downsides. I think it's really neat that I'll be able to go on close local errand runs without having to fire up the V8 and drive around on it cold just to park it again a few minutes later. The instant torque fill being the other positive, I'm gunna be doing pulls from like 1500rpm non-stop lol

Also I'll be doing my best impression of the current LMDH cars taking off from their pitboxes in electric then firing the engine, will need a exhaust though (yet another benefit, can run a loud exhaust and still move the car around silently when necessary)

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i get you're passionate on the subject... and yet you still didnt answer why the M5 needed a powerplant like this when Euro 7 emission targes are fleetwide... so again, why this powerplant and neuter a top tier performance car? this car is fractions of a percent of the total BMW fleet..

The Euro 6 and 7 regulations are not all fleet wide. Some rules apply to fleets as a whole, but many are model specific. Every time a manufacturer comes out with a new model for sale in the EU it must get “Type Approval” before it can be sold in the EU or any countries that follow EU standards (there are a lot).

Part of this Type Approval testing is to make sure the model (not the fleet) is in conformity with the current regulations. This is generally done once per model before the vehicle initially goes on sale. A manufacturer can continue selling an already approved vehicle as standards tighten, which is why there are also fleet limits.

The G07 X7 would have been type certified back in 2019, which is why it can still be sold as a non-PHEV. The G90 M5 just went through so the stricter tests applied.

Even if BMW as a whole meets every fleet average standard, they cannot sell a new model unless that model meets the current requirements (which are different from the fleet averages). They could build and sell F90 M5’s as long as they wanted as long as they meet the fleet averages, but customers would complain and want a new vehicle.

There are nuances too that have different rules, like when you are modifying an existing type (think LCI or adding a comp version) or getting a whole new type (F90 versus G90).

I hope this helps explain why there are no NEW v8 sedans being introduced in Europe without PHEV. The only one that I can think of is the new Panamera GTS, but it’s V8 makes over 100 fewer horsepower than the F90. The new S63, RS7, Panamera Turbo, m5 are all PHEV since they just went through their type approval.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

because CAFE standards (50mpg average by 2031) + others demand it. There's no way to meet the fleet requirements without converting a ton of said fleet to PHEV and EV, particularly the low mpg parts of said fleet. And EV demand hasn't matched expectations so there's even more pressure to at least get PHEV into as much of the fleet as possible.


and upon further research it looks like BMWUSA won a little battle with HQ to get the V8 in the X5 for next gen in the U.S, but it won't be in most other markets. So we got a little lifeline but this is the way the market is going purely due to regulations, instead of lashing out just accept it and enjoy the V8s while you still can.

Don’t forget that 2025 is not the only model year you can enjoy V8. There will be plenty of people enjoying older cars more often than not. New tech is vastly responsible for watering down driving experience for many. Electric power steering exist only because
1 it gives marginally better mpg
2 it allowed for nannies like active steering assist and lane departure intervention that would otherwise not be possible. Auto start stop is only there because in one of homolagation test there’s an instance in which car is stationary for 20% of the time or so. It has marginal impact on mpg in real life. If newer models were all that pricing for E46 M3 and E39 M5 and many other cars wouldn’t ever be where they currentoy are. I’ve been BMW owner for over 20 years now. I’ve never seen such debates. Both sides of the arguments are right in their own way. Fact is this car would never existed if not for people with power finding problems where there aren’t any.

[TargaM2]

For those interested in high performance cars the fact that BMW wont allow it to be tested on track tells you everything you need to know about this car.

[Alan l.]

It’s a press car loaner. Could be several reasons why BMW didn’t want him on a track. Maybe they didn’t want him to destroy the tires before the next journalist?

It would be foolish to think BMW didn’t expect any M5’s tested on the track. It’s only a matter of time.

Alan

[ctelimad]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

For those interested in high performance cars the fact that BMW wont allow it to be tested on track tells you everything you need to know about this car.

This car was initially released and people were invited to be tested on the track
Do no what people are talking about
I remember when this car was released it was only on track

[zinner]

Originally Posted by ctelimad

This car was initially released and people were invited to be tested on the track
Do no what people are talking about
I remember when this car was released it was only on track

I was looking at videos and all I could find was some journalists on the PCD track BMW owns right?. Do you have any links to actual track video's vs OEM staged events?

I get it limited amount of press vehicles and unlimited youtube/legacy media necessitates such things just want to see a real track video if one exists.

[A_]

If we assume that the new M5 has 585 ps of internal combustion engine power then the performance is very good and the vehicle is fast, but if we say that this vehicle has more than 720 ps then it is not fast and the performance is very poor...

BMW has always been testing and introducing new turbo engine powertrains in M models introducing them first in the X5/X6 SUV models starting with the E70/E71 in 2008. And at that time only naturally aspirated engines without turbo were on offer in the M3/M5/M6. Now it's exactly the same. First the XM, and then they introduced this in the M5 G90.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by zinner

I was looking at videos and all I could find was some journalists on the PCD track BMW owns right?. Do you have any links to actual track video's vs OEM staged events?

I get it limited amount of press vehicles and unlimited youtube/legacy media necessitates such things just want to see a real track video if one exists.

the only one that I've seen is the BMWBLOG one and there isn't that much said here about dynamics... honestly, i'd be far more curious if someone took an M5 Comp F90 vs the new G90 and just did a back to back drive around canyons or some curvy roads to tell us which one is more involving, dynamic and more fun to drive... not which one is a better daily driver or can go into London City center without congestion charges or which EU country is saving the planet with this limited run car

[SFT33]

I have every version of the M5 (except an E39 - someday) in my garage. I’ve spent a ton of time in each of them. They are all different and have their pluses and minuses. They are all special in their own way.

I also have a 21 E63s wagon. My third AMG wagon.

I will bet the hate for this car goes away over time. I’m not thrilled about the weight or the fact that it is a hybrid. It’s the world we live in. AMG abandoned the E63 V8 and after owning several Audi Avants - I wouldn’t go back. Quality isn’t there IMHO. Options are limited in this class.

I plan to wait for the LCI. They will undoubtedly address some of the issues people are complaining about and the press will drool over it.

This is probably the end of the V8. Enjoy it while you can.

[masd79]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

Exactanundo. If you want a smaller, nimbler, 4 Door Sedan, the M3 is clearly the better choice.

M3 is a forced sedan imo, Jetta sized car

[Logical]

Originally Posted by ctelimad

Totally agree
It is just a new driving experience
I also drove mine 800 miles so far and can say the same
Again I would have paid for all the whistle and bells if they gave me the options and I think most of m5 owners would have done so
The question is why they did not offer those extras as options?!

1) Because it add more weight To a vehicle that’s already 1000 pounds heavier than it’s supposed predecessor.

2) because they will make consumer pay for it with the next release in some form of add on “package”