[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Well, I don't believe there are even any 2021's for sale yet. They haven't started arriving at the dealerships.

It's just too bad. The dealerships are going to kill this car. If it makes 4 years of production I'll be surprised.

AutoTrader shows pretty much every dealer in my area listing 2021s at sticker... in advance of their arrival. Not sure why you'd be so pessimistic about the future of a car that so popular that dealers are marking them up. Do you hold the same pessimism about Porsche GT cars? They're marked up and not exactly readily available for test drives either.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

AutoTrader shows pretty much every dealer in my area listing 2021s at sticker... in advance of their arrival. Not sure why you'd be so pessimistic about the future of a car that so popular that dealers are marking them up. Do you hold the same pessimism about Porsche GT cars? They're marked up and not exactly readily available for test drives either.

The thing is that they aren’t as popular as dealers are making them out to be as evidence by the massive incentives Toyota is putting on these cars. Toyota USA is trying to move units but certain dealers are treating them like gold by not letting people drive them and not honoring Toyota’s incentives. This is not like P GT cars by any means

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by super51fan

The thing is that they aren't as popular as dealers are making them out to be as evidence by the massive incentives Toyota is putting on these cars. Toyota USA is trying to move units but certain dealers are treating them like gold by not letting people drive them and not honoring Toyota's incentives. This is not like P GT cars by any means

My perception is Toyota is pushing the 2020 models because anyone in the know realizes the 2021 models are much more desirable.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

My perception is Toyota is pushing the 2020 models because anyone in the know realizes the 2021 models are much more desirable.

Right, but there are many dealers who still won’t let go of their 2020 stock and are still marking them up

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

AutoTrader shows pretty much every dealer in my area listing 2021s at sticker... in advance of their arrival. Not sure why you'd be so pessimistic about the future of a car that so popular that dealers are marking them up. Do you hold the same pessimism about Porsche GT cars? They're marked up and not exactly readily available for test drives either.

Are you actually comparing the Supra market to Porsche GT cars??? Lol
Why stop there - lets compare to getting new Ferrari hypercar market.

Porsche has loyal following that outstrips supply as GT cars are limited runs.
Supra has prospective clients like myself that are being turned off by actions of dealers and will go elsewhere.

I don’t blame Toyota as they are even doing 0% financing but the dealers are sabotaging the Supra.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by R N M

Are you actually comparing the Supra market to Porsche GT cars??? Lol
Why stop there - lets compare to getting new Ferrari hypercar market.

Porsche has loyal following that outstrips supply as GT cars are limited runs.
Supra has prospective clients like myself that are being turned off by actions of dealers and will go elsewhere.

I don't blame Toyota as they are even doing 0% financing but the dealers are sabotaging the Supra.

I'm responding to the idea that dealer markups and lack of available test drives equates to killing a vehicle. That is simply idiotic regardless of the brand.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

I'm responding to the idea that dealer markups and lack of available test drives equates to killing a vehicle. That is simply idiotic regardless of the brand.

For 911 or M3 - i agree.

For Supra that has no existing client base - it’s vital to its success because you need to convert those potential buyers from their current brand.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

I'm responding to the idea that dealer markups and lack of available test drives equates to killing a vehicle. That is simply idiotic regardless of the brand.

You're being obtuse and not listening to what is actually happening. I do agree that markups and lack of test drives do not equate to killing a vehicle, but that is not the entire story here.

Toyota wants these 2020 models sold asap since they will be worth even less when 2021s hit showrooms, but dealers aren't honoring these incentives and are treating a $50,000 car like an exclusive $200,000 car. I can test drive a $85,000 Land Cruiser no questions asked but not a Supra that has been sitting there for 6 months with advertised incentives from corporate.

This is so very different than P GT cars since Porsche HQ isn't actively trying to offload them and aren't offering incentives.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by R N M

For 911 or M3 - i agree.

For Supra that has no existing client base - it's vital to its success because you need to convert those potential buyers from their current brand.

I subscribe to the theory of supply and demand, and that if supply becomes greater than demand the prices and test drive policies will become more favorable to the consumer. I believe what we're seeing is demand dictating dealer behavior; and it's just that consumers aren't expecting such from a Toyota dealership.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

AutoTrader shows pretty much every dealer in my area listing 2021s at sticker... in advance of their arrival. Not sure why you'd be so pessimistic about the future of a car that so popular that dealers are marking them up. Do you hold the same pessimism about Porsche GT cars? They're marked up and not exactly readily available for test drives either.

How far is Freehold, NJ from you?

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight


Now, I'm not an actuary, but my menial skills tell me this is nearly $9k off MSRP in your own state.


It's not my fault people on the coasts would prefer to pay $5k+ or more for the same car because they don't want to buy a one-way ticket and drive a car home.

I know of 3 different guys from SoCal, who flew to Oklahoma to buy GT350s and drove them back. Hell with some of the markup dealers are adding, it would be cheaper to buy the car out of state and have it shipped to you in a covered carrier so you wouldn't have to put the miles on it if you didn't want to.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

I subscribe to the theory of supply and demand, and that if supply becomes greater than demand the prices and test drive policies will become more favorable to the consumer. I believe what we're seeing is demand dictating dealer behavior; and it's just that consumers aren't expecting such from a Toyota dealership.

“In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”

If demand was so great, they wouldn't be knocking thousands off and adding 0% financing. Our points are, if they turn around and pull this same stuff on the '21's because now they have more power, they will stunt sales again.

Seriously $20k over MSRP? Who in hell pays $75k for the new Supra or more?

You can import a LHD drive A80 from Japan for less than half that, and isn't that what all fanbois crying about BMW's involvement want anyway?

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by super51fan

The DME for the X3 M/M4 M show the Supra in the image, S58 Supra coming?

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=12_2464

With the M4 engine specs unveiled yesterday, what are the chances of an S58 Supra?

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

How far is Freehold, NJ from you?

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...e=spotlightNow,

I'm not an actuary, but my menial skills tell me this is nearly $9k off MSRP in your own state.

Freehold is about an hour away, but that's nothing for me as I drive a lot for work. As for buying remotely, I have zero problem with that personally. I think you're projecting an argument on me that should be sent elsewhere.

I guess you missed the fact that I was talking about pricing of 2021 models. Of course the 2020 models are incentivized and discounted; it's common knowledge the 2021 model is improved.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."

If demand was so great, they wouldn't be knocking thousands off and adding 0% financing. Our points are, if they turn around and pull this same stuff on the '21's because now they have more power, they will stunt sales again.

Seriously $20k over MSRP? Who in hell pays $75k for the new Supra or more?

You can import a LHD drive A80 from Japan for less than half that, and isn't that what all fanbois crying about BMW's involvement want anyway?

I'm not sure why you think we disagree with each other because you're supporting my position that a car without demand, will fail to demand a high price.
I'm not sure where people are getting quotes of $20k (or anything for that matter) above sticker. As I mentioned earlier, I see 2021s listed at sticker on AutoTrader. Personally I'm skeptical of these stories.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

My perception is Toyota is pushing the 2020 models because anyone in the know realizes the 2021 models are much more desirable.

Yup. And sports car buyers, unlike your average Camry buyer, are most definitely “in the know” more often than not.

[NickyC]

Toyota dealer near me has two brand new 2020s for 10k off list. One has an advertised price of $47k. That's more like it, and probably a nice new car for that price.

LoL at the folks who paid like $80k+.

[thormessiah]

The dealership I went to told me they had some Poker player pay $90k plus another $5000 to wrap the vehicle from white to maroon. Solve people just have money to blow I guess

[supra93]

A quick look at Autotrader shows 522 / Cargurus has 459 new active listings. Supposedly the 2021s are going on sale in late July or early August.

[supra93]

Link below says 520ps or roughly 513hp.

https://twitter.com/kaminobestcar/st...965056/photo/1

[supra93]

Quarterly sales numbers are in.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2020-u...sales-figures/

Supra
April: 231
May: 512
June: 538

Z4
April: 149
May: 332
June: 349

Total US sales
Supra: 5,178
Z4: 4,396

[heavyD^2]

To put things into perspective the A80's best sales year ever was in 1994 totalling only 3405 cars sold.

[Alfisti]

How'd they sell more in June than April??? Where are people getting this money from? The car market astonishes me.