[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I agree with the math for someome like you or me. Howeverthe convenience part isn't there. I also find the styling hideous, performance monus 0-50 subpar, and abhor all the electronic bs in a tesla. I ordered my car without idrive and with a stick for a reason.

For the average person going 12-15k a year however, the numbers don't make sense at all, which is the problem.

If I get a Bolt it will strictly be for driving to work and it will pay for itself. However, say the power goes out overnight while I'm recharging, I'll have 4 other ICE vehicles to drive the next day, which points to the impracticality of EVs in certain situations.

None of my cars have idrive and all my BMWs are manuals.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Is your Telsa your only car? If so, what to you do for road trips or long drives that exceed range. Do you rent a car? Trying to justify a Telsa, but it just doesn't seem to fit my lifestyle.

Yes, it's the only car in the household, until Model 3 gets delivered
Supercharger network is more than enough to cover my needs
As stated above, i took some long trips (including NY to FL) using superchargers.
Next year i'm going to do cross country pulling a travel trailer
With 3 small kids, it was necessary to stop every 3-4 hours to eat, to stretch, and for kids to run around a bit.
I would not even consider ICE car for the trip
Autopilot and free "gas" made the trip more enjoyable

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

Yes, it's the only car in the household, until Model 3 gets delivered
Supercharger network is more than enough to cover my needs
As stated above, i took some long trips (including NY to FL) using superchargers.
Next year i'm going to do cross country pulling a travel trailer
With 3 small kids, it was necessary to stop every 3-4 hours to eat, to stretch, and for kids to run around a bit.
I would not even consider ICE car for the trip
Autopilot and free "gas" made the trip more enjoyable

Has it been revealed how much it will cost Telsa 3 owners to use supercharger stations? I know Musk mentioned it before, just not what the fee was.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by e90m305

It's sad that you bring politics into science. This is why we don't have enough progress on this threat.

Climate Change Denial:

It's not science. That's the whole point. Global warming is 100% political.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

It's not science. That's the whole point. Global warming is 100% political.

This is the point. Engineers and scientists use models for all sorts of predictive purposes. The problem with climate models are that it is not possible to validate them. Engineers use model simulation in almost every branch of engineering, but much time is spent validating the models they use. Using a model to predict future climates is useless without some independent validation of the models. This is were the politics enter discussion. The models are suspect and full of error, however Government's decide that near-field pollution must have some long term effect since the near-field environment appears bad, so they can fix the near-field environment, which leads to the idea they can fix the long term (far-field) problem. The models are used to define the problem and socio-economic plans are put in place to make the models predict a better environment when no one really knows it will be bad.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Has it been revealed how much it will cost Telsa 3 owners to use supercharger stations? I know Musk mentioned it before, just not what the fee was.

Most likely the cost is going to be 2000 to 2500 just like they did for model S 60
However, when they merge with solar city they may not care about the cost as much, since it would be all powered by solar panel

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Oooh, opposing view. Must not let it be expressed. You're as bad as my university professors and cnn. It's obvious actually the opposite that you haven't done your research.

Global warming research blah blah blah blah

Hmmm

http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature...e-caps-melting

Here, let me break it down for you.

You made this claim:

Are the polar caps vanishing? No. There's more south pole ice than ever.

This, more than anything, shows you can't think critically or logically. Polar ice caps is plural, in there are two, usually referring to the North and the South. Just like I started with, you are using arguments like z=y to prove that a=b, in other words, totally unrelated things. Even if the antarctic ice cap has more ice than in recent past, it doesn't prove that the polar ice caps are not vanishing, it's a, not enough data, and b, contradicted by the overall mass of ice decreasing, as I showed you in the article.

Then, you used an article which basically cherry-picked the part about the antarctic sea ice reaching a maximum level, from the one I shared with you, except if you read on further in the article I posted, you realize that the overall level of sea ice has decreased and that "record" was more than offset by the polar cap decrease. But, your "sciency" guy in his article built his entire argument around this one facet, which doesn't show the big picture. He's probably laughed at by real scientists. In the face of overwhelming evidence, you, like the guy in the article you posted, latch on to something you believe disproves the overwhelming evidence (like the flat earth society), but it does not follow. It does not logically make sense.

This is why no one can argue with you, no amount of evidence could ever persuade you, no evidence will ever be "good enough" for you, because you have irrationally decided and can never change. It's similar to your irrational hate of the Tesla cars and company. Enjoy your 300 mile commute in the flat lands.

You might do well to listen to your university professors. The entire world is not out to get you.

[Fundguy1]

Um, whatever. Good try at twisting facts. North pole ice is going away. South pole is increasing. Fact. Undisputed.
Temps have changed almost zero in over 100 yrs on average. Fact. Undisputed.
Ozone layer is healing. Fact. Undisputed.

All 3 of these facts refute global warming. Global warming scientists can't explain any of these facts. That's why it was changed from global warming to climate change. Because there was no warming. Fact. Undisputed.

So now, any abnormal event, such as a heat wave, hurricane, flood, etc is blamed on climate change. There is however no demonstratable way to show there has been any reason that these events were caused, worsened, etc by carbon emmissions. This makes the argument unprovable and irrefutable so it's just a theory at best. I see no evidence showing that these events are more frequent or violent than previous events.

So instead of twisting, stretching, massaging, and making up stuff to prove a point, I'd say looking at plain facts is a better way to critically think about something and draw a conclusion.

Your argument of it looks like crap, smells like crap, feels like crap, tastes like crap, must be a candy bar, doesn't hold water.

As for my "sciency" guy, someone who has studied the weather for decades and is a leading authority in weather patterns and climate seems to me to be someone worth listening to. Your argument against him would be like saying Enzo Ferrari was a carish guy but not someone you should take seriously regarding automobiles.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Um, whatever. Good try at twisting facts. North pole ice is going away. South pole is increasing. Fact.

And north pole ice is decreasing faster than any ice is increasing in the south pole that happened during one season, so that the net effect is a decrease. Fact.


Sheesh, talk about "twisting facts". Were you even able to read the NASA article?

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

As for my "sciency" guy, someone who has studied the weather for decades and is a leading authority in weather patterns and climate seems to me to be someone worth listening to. Your argument against him would be like saying Enzo Ferrari was a carish guy but not someone you should take seriously regarding automobiles.

I read his article, it wasn't backed up with science or facts. Please point to the facts in the article that support the polar ice mass increasing and then point to the facts where that disproves climate change.

[Frozen]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

It's not science. That's the whole point. Global warming is 100% political.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

And north pole ice is decreasing faster than any ice is increasing in the south pole that happened during one season, so that the net effect is a decrease. Fact.


Sheesh, talk about "twisting facts". Were you even able to read the NASA article?

Nasa is producing information at the direction of their payroll masters. I thought Nasa was in the business of making rickets. Instead they come out with a report saying global warming is the number one threat to the US. How convenient. They also has anot her one saying world economic despairity was, i.e. we need wealth redistribution. I thought they were going to Mars.

https://w3.newsmax.com/General/RWL/LP/Dark-Winter-Book-and-DVD?dkt_nbr=6hiqkkoq

[Fundguy1]

Meanwhile they outsource heavy lifting and manned flight to Russia. JFK must be rolling over in his grave.

[DATM3]

You know that you just linked an infomercial sales pitch site that sells DVD's for his conspiracy theories as facts. He must be laughing to his bank account at people like you. LOL, I just went around the "newsmax" website and the articles are all click bait's for you to give your credit card to fund them. If that's your source of facts, I feel sorry for you.

[Fundguy1]

Just one I saw quickly. I'm tired of spending hours vetting links for people with closed minds spoon fed by the administration trying to dispute the obvious shams and questionable research they use to justify shifting trilions worldwide to 3rd world countries and like a big stick slamming corporations and businesses.

[DATM3]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Just one I saw quickly. I'm tired of spending hours vetting links for people with closed minds spoon fed by the administration trying to dispute the obvious shams and questionable research they use to justify shifting trilions worldwide to 3rd world countries and like a big stick slamming corporations and businesses.

This comment just proves you believe whatever anyone tells you without gathering the facts to back it up. The irony of your comment is astonishing ! I own my own business and don't feel any government slamming anything or taking anything from me. You should relax and possibly find a new career, the long distance driving is probably getting the best of you. Anyhow, I am done here.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Nasa is producing information at the direction of their payroll masters. I thought Nasa was in the business of making rickets. Instead they come out with a report saying global warming is the number one threat to the US. How convenient. They also has anot her one saying world economic despairity was, i.e. we need wealth redistribution. I thought they were going to Mars.

https://w3.newsmax.com/General/RWL/L...t_nbr=6hiqkkoq

translation:

"It doesn't agree with what I want to believe, so it must be false"

If there were some big conspiracy, surely we'd all be in on it? It's just downright laughable at times what people will believe for the sake of emotional comfort and to avoid reality. Reality is often boring and/or not what we want, but we can change that by just believing something else, right!?

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by DATM3

This comment just proves you believe whatever anyone tells you without gathering the facts to back it up. The irony of your comment is astonishing ! I own my own business and don't feel any government slamming anything or taking anything from me. You should relax and possibly find a new career, the long distance driving is probably getting the best of you. Anyhow, I am done here.

Smal business taxes, power bill, obamacare?

[DATM3]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Smal business taxes, power bill, obamacare?

I use public services. Therefore, I pay the taxes to help improve my community. I use power so I will pay my power bill. I don't offer Obamacare to employees yet because my business does not have over 50 employees. I will consider doing it sometime in the future to help my employees out. The problem you have is that everything is revolved around "you". I work hard for what I have and I don't bitch and complain. I am feel happy about myself when I can help those who are in need of help. I adapt to the changes that occur and figure out how to surpass those challenges. It just looks like to me that you haven't been able to succeed because you keep doing the same thing you have always done, which appears to be "bitching and complaining" about how the government is out to get you.

[Fundguy1]

Your tax rate is the highest in the world. No reason for that. Your power bill is about double what if should be. No reason for that. Obama care applies to businesses with overy 50 employees.

[DATM3]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Your tax rate is the highest in the world. No reason for that. Your power bill is about double what if should be. No reason for that. Obama care applies to businesses with overy 50 employees.

I am able to live comfortably with what I make after taxes. I am able to make enough profit even though the power bill is double (I am taking your word for that). The power bill is negligible to my business and is variably small in the grand scheme of things. Ah yes, I forgot about the gradual change from 100 to 50 recently came into affect. It does not affect me still as I have less than 50 as well. I think you put your concentrations on the wrong places. If you would focus on how to surpass those issues you might do better for yourself. You are nitpicking and show signs of greed in how you live your life. My advice to you is to put those efforts to good use on how you can adapt and overcome the problems.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

Most likely the cost is going to be 2000 to 2500 just like they did for model S 60
However, when they merge with solar city they may not care about the cost as much, since it would be all powered by solar panel

Just saw this recent article. Looks like Telsa might move to a supercharger credit system.

http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model...-mytesla-page/