[GinTonic]

Originally Posted by Calamari

I live in Europe. Basically everything you wrote in this post is factually incorrect.

Demand for new EVs in EU is very low compared to ICEs and PHEVs.

I can attest to this. Speaking solely of Poland, I last visited family in July 2022. Rather than renting a car, I rented a 1250 GS and covered roughly 2000 miles over the 10 days I was there. You would think I saw at least 20 charging stations, right? Zero! ZERO charging stations that I came across, and that included major cities like Warszawa, Lodz, Wroclaw, Krakow, Zakopane, Rzeszow.

I can't even imagine a town like Karpacz or Zakopane to be completely electrified with no ICE vehicles. In the summer time you can't even drive a car through those towns or you're stuck in hours of traffic. Charging an electric car the the dead of summer in one of those towns Good luck!

[GinTonic]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

You’re not illiterate or stupid; but cynical, and toxic… Which is way worst.

Whats wrong with cynical? You must be one of those who believes everything the government tells you? So how many WMDs did the U.S. find in Iraq & Afghanistan? Water is under the bridge already and we all know Cheney used media to crystalize public opinion with regard to going to War in Iraq. I'll never forget the days of Wolf Blizter shoving shit down every Americans throat of possible new locations of WMDs. Let me ask you why mass media and the general public ever need such information/intel, unless they were playing you. You are one naive guy.

I really recommended you pick up some books written by Edward Bernays to really grasp how the government and media go hand in hand with one another. Maybe you'll see through the veil. Perhaps its the banks made poor investments (trillion dollar ones) on this EV/green agenda, and the government is it so that those investments don't flounder causing ruckus in markets.

[Car-Addicted]

BMW Says Its Combustion Engine Car Sales Have Peaked
BMW established a sales record in 2023 when it delivered 2,253,835 cars. It was an all-time high for the Bavarian brand, with the growth largely fueled by stronger demand for purely electric vehicles. EVs accounted for 15% of total shipments. In 2024, the German luxury marque expects zero-emission cars to represent 20% of volume, before increasing to 25% in 2025. By 2030, more than half of BMW’s annual sales will be EVs.
With that in mind, the following statement made by chief financial officer Walter Mertl might not come as a shock: “The tipping point for the combustion engine is already there.” He believes sales of BMWs with gasoline/diesel engines peaked in 2023, adding the current sales level will continue before beginning to fall.
In other words, BMW reckons that the ICE’s best days are effectively behind it, suggesting it’s all downhill from here.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/01/15/b...-sales-peaked/

I reckon that BMW's best days are effectively behind it, suggesting it’s all downhill from here.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by GinTonic

Whats wrong with cynical? You must be one of those who believes everything the government tells you? So how many WMDs did the U.S. find in Iraq & Afghanistan? Water is under the bridge already and we all know Cheney used media to crystalize public opinion with regard to going to War in Iraq. I'll never forget the days of Wolf Blizter shoving shit down every Americans throat of possible new locations of WMDs. Let me ask you why mass media and the general public ever need such information/intel, unless they were playing you. You are one naive guy.

I really recommended you pick up some books written by Edward Bernays to really grasp how the government and media go hand in hand with one another. Maybe you'll see through the veil. Perhaps its the banks made poor investments (trillion dollar ones) on this EV/green agenda, and the government is it so that those investments don't flounder causing ruckus in markets.

It’s really not worth it to argue with people like him. He gets backed into corners and makes personal attacks when he experiences dissonance.


I could give a fly fuck if 99% of the cars are EV. Just let me drive what I want.

[georgebmwM3]

Originally Posted by georgebmwM3

One guarantee, this will not go as planned. EV’s and the infrastructure required, is no where near ready as it stands today. The more EVs come out, the more I read and hear from colleagues who own them the burdens. In fact, when I was in Germany last week, I was offered a loaner BMW i3 but when they asked how far I was driving, they quickly recommended a diesel. The service rep said that to find an EV load point is difficult in Munich and the time required would be prohibitive for my journey. Stories of waiting 3 hours to charge, incomplete charges, fights who was in line, etc…. The unassuming public is about to find out what awaits.

This is another example of why I believe our infrastructure is a long way off.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

^ although likely to be true. its so fucking sick how extremist and echo chamber the news is and how algorithms enforce our black and white thinking. shit is sooo fucked up. like most car batteries struggle in the cold, to the news above, it kind of sucks when the whole car is the battery and their performance is significantly affected by outside temperature. so it is a reality of owning an EV, but damn people are soo virtuous of both sides and refuse to meet in the middle.

at any rate, the article above will seal 90% of seal simple simon fuckers to either belive "dead robots over there" or it will get pro-EV peoples panties in a bunch.

shit is fucking sick

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by georgebmwM3

This is another example of why I believe our infrastructure is a long way off.

this happened right by me

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by georgebmwM3

This is another example of why I believe our infrastructure is a long way off.

Surely there is more to the story. Tesla cars are very popular in Norway and their winters are a lot colder than Chicago. If it were simply “EVs die when cold” they shouldn’t be the #1 sellers in Nordic countries.

[georgebmwM3]

What concerns me about EV is that these problems occur at times that are dangerous to people. If an EV car is stuck in a traffic jam and runs out of power, I can’t call to get a can of gas. Unless and until there is remote or portable power stations, your stuck. Now, it’s freezing temperatures and imagine an infant in the car, it’s life threatening. I don’t appreciate that these issues are not resolved before these vehicles are foisted on the public.

[B58-M340iX]

Originally Posted by georgebmwM3

What concerns me about EV is that these problems occur at times that are dangerous to people. If an EV car is stuck in a traffic jam and runs out of power, I can’t call to get a can of gas. Unless and until there is remote or portable power stations, your stuck. Now, it’s freezing temperatures and imagine an infant in the car, it’s life threatening. I don’t appreciate that these issues are not resolved before these vehicles are foisted on the public.

I hear your concerns, but we also need to take self-accountability into the conversation. An EV can call for a quick charge just like an ICE vehicle, and I would hope that someone wouldn't run down below zero (there's always some mileage leftover for those who run their tanks/batteries down to 0%) while having an infant in the car. I understand situations happen that one may not be able to account for, but hopefully one could get over to the shoulder and call for a charge and be on their way. You'd be in the same "call for help no heat" situation with ICE as an EV.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by georgebmwM3

This is another example of why I believe our infrastructure is a long way off.

Just as a point of clarity. Reporters can get so many details wrong. Overall the story was on point, but as the reporter was telling about the man at the airport coming back to a dead battery in his Tesla the man in question was standing next to his Audi Q4 or 8 e-tron (couldn’t tell the size for sure) on the back of the flatbed.

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

Surely there is more to the story. Tesla cars are very popular in Norway and their winters are a lot colder than Chicago. If it were simply “EVs die when cold” they shouldn’t be the #1 sellers in Nordic countries.

Multiple stations here in Chicago reported on this at multiple Tesla charging stations here in Chicagoland. I think it was a pretty straightforward mess.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Just as a point of clarity. Reporters can get so many details wrong.

Shocked that the media would double down on bad information.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Multiple stations here in Chicago reported on this at multiple Tesla charging stations here in Chicagoland. I think it was a pretty straightforward mess.

So as I understand it if you plug in most EV's in cold or hot weather it will begin to condition the battery compartment. This is not dependent on having a charge in the battery as the charger is the power source? When the battery is in the operational range the battery will start charging?
Since this happened all over Chicago maybe there is another source of the problem?

Start looking up managed electric vehicle charging
Why Managed Charging?
EV electricity demand without managed charging is unpredictable because customers charge their vehicles at their convenience. As shown below, EV aggregate demand may fluctuate significantly, requiring investments in additional energy generation and transmission and/or distribution system upgrades.
https://sepapower.org/knowledge/ev-m...rogram-design/

It is very possible that the super chargers were throttled due to the cold snap and this was not a Tesla super charger issue at all but an electric utility issue?

Think charging at home gets you around "managed electric vehicle charging" Keep reading.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by GinTonic

I can attest to this. Speaking solely of Poland, I last visited family in July 2022. Rather than renting a car, I rented a 1250 GS and covered roughly 2000 miles over the 10 days I was there. You would think I saw at least 20 charging stations, right? Zero! ZERO charging stations that I came across, and that included major cities like Warszawa, Lodz, Wroclaw, Krakow, Zakopane, Rzeszow.

I can't even imagine a town like Karpacz or Zakopane to be completely electrified with no ICE vehicles. In the summer time you can't even drive a car through those towns or you're stuck in hours of traffic. Charging an electric car the the dead of summer in one of those towns Good luck!

Out of all Countries in Europe you picked Poland? Respect

Poland is not high priority for any manufacturer. They will drive their totaled diesels as long as they can.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

So as I understand it if you plug in most EV's in cold or hot weather it will begin to condition the battery compartment. This is not dependent on having a charge in the battery as the charger is the power source? When the battery is in the operational range the battery will start charging?
Since this happened all over Chicago maybe there is another source of the problem?

Start looking up managed electric vehicle charging
Why Managed Charging?
EV electricity demand without managed charging is unpredictable because customers charge their vehicles at their convenience. As shown below, EV aggregate demand may fluctuate significantly, requiring investments in additional energy generation and transmission and/or distribution system upgrades.
https://sepapower.org/knowledge/ev-m...rogram-design/

It is very possible that the super chargers were throttled due to the cold snap and this was not a Tesla super charger issue at all but an electric utility issue?

Think charging at home gets you around "managed electric vehicle charging" Keep reading.

They interviewed some EV technical guy and he said in such cold weather it is a must that you “precondition” the battery so it will accept a charge. Also, though, in addition to a lot of cars apparently not accepting a charge, as has been discussed here, a lot of the chargers themselves were not functioning at all.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

They interviewed some EV technical guy and he said in such cold weather it is a must that you “precondition” the battery so it will accept a charge. Also, though, in addition to a lot of cars apparently not accepting a charge, as has been discussed here, a lot of the chargers themselves were not functioning at all.

Yes Tesla and other EV companies “precondition” prior to charging at temperature extremes but the “precondition” can derive it's power from the charger and not require the battery. The elephant in the room is being conveniently ignored here. Managed Electric Vehicle Charging

Electric Vehicle Grid Impact Analysis and Smart-Charge Management
Integrated EV smart charging can improve grid reliability by more effectively utilizing renewable energy, shaving peak electricity demand, and supporting and maintaining power quality while still meeting the needs of EV drivers.
Equitable Electric Vehicle Adoption

Using tools, such as the EV Infrastructure for Equity Model, helps develop smart-charge management algorithms that support more equitable and just EV adoption and infrastructure deployment.

https://www.nrel.gov/transportation/...-charging.html

Cold snap, high electric needs EV charging shut off.
I can't break it down any simpler but you folks have spent $50,000.00 plus to let the same folks that forced you to take a unproven medication to keep your job to control who, where, when and if you can drive your car.

[Bklyn]

Destructive political propaganda aimed at uneducated and/or intellectually deficient and/or people who are incapable of diversifying their news sources - is the biggest problem of our time and the biggest obstacle towards progress.[/QUOTE]

And being forced to do something in civilized society isn't good for anyone.
No one I know enjoys being told or forced to do anything. I've had almost 10 years of driving both EV's and my big Ram Hemi and thoroughly enjoy both.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by Krids1229

Its hard to hear the message over all the whimpering and whining in here.

Long time lurker, first time poster.

This happens every time BMW introduces a new generation of car. So much bemoaning that they always used to be better than what we have now, or what is coming in future generations.

Guess what. Change always happens, always will.

Don't like the future generations? Don't buy it

Think the last generation or two was better? Buy a used car.

Think you can do better? Start your own car company.


Go wring your hands, but the writing is on the wall. BEVs are here, and will continuing coming.

If you're so obsessed with your fossil fuels, propping up the oil industry, and dumping carbon into our shared planet, I'm sure you can buy a RAM truck and idle it somewhere.

Please go back to lurking. Thanks.

[SpaceSilver.X1]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

I could give a fly fuck if 99% of the cars are EV. Just let me drive what I want.

I'm with you on that one.

However, I don't know what I'll do when 100% of the new cars are all EV?

[G30M]

It's ok, I have the last 2 pure ICE in my garage

[SpaceSilver.X1]

Originally Posted by g21

It's ok, I have the last 2 pure ICE in my garage

I have 3 pure ICE. 2 in the garage and 1 in the driveway. (although only 1 is a BMW)

With premium gas so cheap these days, I'll keep them as long as I can. (only $2.89 at Costco yesterday)

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by SpaceSilver.X1

I'm with you on that one.

However, I don't know what I'll do when 100% of the new cars are all EV?

But older used cars. You’ll be able to buy ICE cars until you become fertilizer.

I am sure gas stations will be around a long time too.

[SpaceSilver.X1]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

But older used cars. You’ll be able to buy ICE cars until you become fertilizer.

I am sure gas stations will be around a long time too.

that reminds me... I've often wonder what will happen to the value of pure ICE cars 5 or 10 years after 100% of all new cars are required to be full EV(or zero emission via other means).