[Maestro]

to add to the conversation

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101473210?__s...od&par=xfinity

They point out what I have been saying, grant it they did it better than me, but this is your job to understand this stuff.

[upstatedoc]

http://stks.co/h0QOt

[Maestro]

IRS to Bitcoin Holders: Pay Up That means you kmarei

After less than three months consideration, the IRS has issued its statement clarifying th etax treatment of Bitcoins (and other virtual currencies) before the April 15th Deadline. The finding, summarized, is that Vitual currencies will be treated as property (not as a currency) which, as WSJ notes, means an investor who buys bitcoin would typically have a capital gain or loss when it’s sold, reports ZeroHedge.

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...rs-pay-up.html

Not good for people who are using bitcoins for transactions to buy stuff. Notice the IRS called it property not even an investment. Property transactions are treated like ordinary income, so it will be tax at your wage tax rate not at the lower of dividend or capital gains tax. Notice they did not have to create any laws around it and the IRS just declared it Property and it taxable anywhere in the world you are keeping that property.

So now people who transact purchases with bitcoins will have to account for each and every transaction, this going to be a nightmare, retailer will not want to deal with this, since the value uncertainty is too great with the add burned of the tax. This is the governments back door method of shutting down crytpo-currency.

Now if you are just buying and sell like an investments, it may not be too bad to deal with I do stock transactions all the time and have to account for them, but again stock sales are not treated like property sales so taxes at lower rate.

[MediaArtist]

Yeah, I would wait a "bit" before getting into BITCoin, they look like they are in the middle of a death spiral right now. Hit $450 last night (about $200 below the price in mid-November when this thread was started), back up to $460-470, but $1200 seems so far, far, away...

I haven't seen Kmarei lately, maybe he pawned his mining machine to cut his losses, or turned it into a kick butt gaming machine. Now that would be a worthy investment. The funny thing is I told Kmarei straight up in December, when BitCoin frenzy near its peak that this price crash was coming:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=43



... and he pointed out the bubble frenzy rise from the 6 months PREVIOUS to when he bought in, and actually tried to say the "trend is definitely going up" when I showed him the BT price graph from December 19th. Kmarei is what you call a "peak investor" in financial lingo, and he never realized it. I don't usually like to dog pile on people, especially fellow investors, but the way kmarei rudely conducted himself in this thread, when people were giving him pretty good advice about why BT might be a loser, sort of justifies this response.

As an aside, I'm up almost $30,000 since I bought Google last Fall (all documented in this thread of course), and with the upcoming stock split, I'd estimate that I'll double my initial investment when everything is said and done this year. So maybe I will cash everything out, and just buy a few M-Cars in celebration. Maybe an E92, E46, and E36? What do you think Kmarei?

[Maestro]

Well as the saying going those who are pigs get slaughtered....

In the markets no one has all the answers and its hard to get in and out at the bottoms and tops, I am just happen to get out and make more than single digits % profits.

On Google I find it interesting they said all along they would never split the stock, they were following Warren Buffets example. But since they diluted the stock Larry and Sergey have less controlling interest and splitting the stock will help them regain a higher % ownership.

If I would have guess they wall street would love google and it was just keep going up I probable would bought in, but it I tend to like stock which are lower in cost and go up and down lots so I can buy in and out and trade on the all the rumors.

[MediaArtist]

lol

BitCoin has drifted to around $360. Literally free falling $600 since early January.

Originally Posted by kmarei

Lets make this fun
I just bought 2 hardware miners for $4131
If you want, buy google stock for that amount
And let's talk after about 2 months
And see how much the $4131 is worth?
If you are so sure your google stock is a better investment, then this should be an easy win for you
If I turn out to be right, then you see the light

Kmarei where you at baby? You still seeing the light kmarei? After 6 months of work, you are what.... $4000 in the hole? Bet you wish you had your $8,200 back.

[pukicabuki]

As if it wasn't hard enough to bitcoins seriously as it is....

Now ICP has their own Juggalo coin. http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te...osse_fans.html

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Kmarei where you at baby? You still seeing the light kmarei? After 6 months of work, you are what.... $4000 in the hole? Bet you wish you had your $8,200 back.

I was gonna holla at him too..
Stop wasting electricity man!

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

lol

BitCoin has drifted to around $360. Literally free falling $600 since early January.




Kmarei where you at baby? You still seeing the light kmarei? After 6 months of work, you are what.... $4000 in the hole? Bet you wish you had your $8,200 back.

I love how you only come in here every time bitcoin goes down in value
But never when it goes back up
Since your last post it's up 17% since the $360

And your math skills leave a lot to be desired
I said I bought 2 miners for $4100
I didn't say each, it was $4100 combined, which is why in my statement there was no "each" following it

And no I am not in a hole
I mined enough bitcoins to covers my costs
I still have the value of the miners, roughly 2400
And I am not doing this for a quick gain
I still think the value of bitcoin will eventually go up
In spite of all the recent negative news, the value is still around $400
More and more stores are accepting it
Heck, even some politicians are accepting bitcoin donations
So I'm mining as many coins as I can
And will hold on to them

And as I said earlier, I'm not paying for electricity or cooling
Both are free in the office, part of our lease agreement

And to reiterate, I was never rude
You were the one that was rude, multiple times

And you've shown , still, your lack of understanding to bitcoin hardware when you said you can play games on them.
At least read a little before you talk shit about something

[michaelthepsycho]

Until it's dead, it's not dead.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by kmarei

I love how you only come in here every time bitcoin goes down in value
But never when it goes back up
Since your last post it's up 17% since the $360

Oh right. It's up 17% after hitting a low of $328, so now it's only down about $150 a coin since mid-november when this thread was started. Looks like you hit a home run and invested at exactly the right time. Kudos baby!

All I can see is that the highs and lows are getting lower and lower every month, a slowly diminishing trend that leads to a blackhole.

So curious, what is your "mercy" line? If it goes below $200 next time, are you going to throw in the towel or stick with it? Serious question.

Heck, even some politicians are accepting bitcoin donations

Yes, China is stomping out BitCoins and threatning to close down the exchanges, but a few politicians will take BitCoins for FREE. That surely proves BitCoin is gaining wide acceptance. Kmarei logic for the win.

And to reiterate, I was never rude
You were the one that was rude, multiple times

You're right, you weren't outright rude in the beginning, but you were dishonest (especially about the Mt.gox fiasco), and it rubbed me the wrong way. I extend the olive branch. Let's start over again and have a real conversation about BC.

So, why do you see it rising in value again?

Do you think the downward trend over the past 6-5 months will reverse? Why?

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Oh right. It's up 17% after hitting a low of $328, so now it's only down about $150 a coin since mid-november when this thread was started. Looks like you hit a home run and invested at exactly the right time. Kudos baby!

It's currently at $520 so you might want to redo those numbers

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

All I can see is that the highs and lows are getting lower and lower every month, a slowly diminishing trend that leads to a blackhole.

The over $1000 phase was not a true value
So yeah since then it's been between 400-600
In that range
That's not "lower and lower"

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

So curious, what is your "mercy" line? If it goes below $200 next time, are you going to throw in the towel or stick with it? Serious question.

I don't have a mercy line
I believe in the concept of bitcoin
It's not only an investment for me
It's much more
And I don't panic Everytime the price goes down
Because time and time again
The price has gone down when some item of bad news has come out
But Everytime it's gone back up now
That tells me there is some inherent value in the currency
Otherwise people would have moved on to something else

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Yes, China is stomping out BitCoins and threatning to close down the exchanges, but a few politicians will take BitCoins for FREE. That surely proves BitCoin is gaining wide acceptance. Kmarei logic for the win.

China is not the world market
How about overstock.com or tiger direct? One of the best online stores for computer stuff?
They both accept bitcoins now
How about the millions invested by VC firms in bitcoin startups?
All of them are wrong too?

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

You're right, you weren't outright rude in the beginning, but you were dishonest (especially about the Mt.gox fiasco), and it rubbed me the wrong way. I extend the olive branch. Let's start over again and have a real conversation about BC.

I was never dishonest
I simply stated what the document that was leaked said
I never used mtgox, and I had a bad feeling about it from day one when I tried to sign up

Let's be honest, you had an agenda from day one
You don't like/understand bitcoin, and you were trying to spin everything to validate your dislike of bitcoin. Hence why you post Everytime the value goes down with the " I bought google stock and I rock attitude" which rubbed me the wrong way since this thread wasn't really about investments In general.
And I'm probably the opposite
I see the bad news, just like everybody else
But I also see promising companies involved in bitcoin, and other bitcoin exchanges that seem to have a little more experience.
I'm using coinbase, and from everything I read about them, they seem to know what they are doing

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

So, why do you see it rising in value again?

Do you think the downward trend over the past 6-5 months will reverse? Why?

Because more and more companies are accepting it
And more and more people are understanding it
I think a lot of people only started reading a lot about it after the mt gox stories came out.

I think it's a fantastic currency
Just think of it
I could transfer money (bitcoins) to anyone , anywhere on the planet in a few seconds. He doesn't even have to be online
With no transfer fees, or exchange rates, or taxes
Or, and this for me is the killer, government intervention

I'm somewhat active in the bitcoin community forums
And I see a lot of very smart people
And I also see the people who just got in to make money
As long as I see the majority who believe in the concept
The more I think it will continue to prosper
Plus I think when the full 21 million bitcoins are mined (currently at 13 million I think) the value will rise, because you won't be able to mine your own anymore
So if you want bitcoins, you have no option but to buy them
Just imagine when the gold or diamond mines dry up
How do you think that will affect the value of gold and diamonds?

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by kmarei

It's currently at $520 so you might want to redo those numbers

Nice run, still about $40-50 below mid-November. You're almost back to where you started Kmarei. I'm sure it'll get there.

The over $1000 phase was not a true value
So yeah since then it's been between 400-600
In that range
That's not "lower and lower"

It's not?

Also it's actually been below $400 (hit $328). What happens when it goes below $300? Is that going to be the new range?



Remember that "dishonesty" thing I was talking about? You're doing it again.

How about the millions invested by VC firms in bitcoin startups?
All of them are wrong too?

Right, because VC firms never get it wrong.

Let's be honest, you had an agenda from day one

Yes I did, and so did you. I wanted to show the difference between investing and pure speculating. You wanted to hype up BitCoin. Nothing wrong with agendas, let's not make it a dark and murky thing. The world is run by people who have agendas. It's only a bad thing when that agenda makes you act dishonest.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Nice run, still about $40-50 below mid-November. You're almost back to where you started Kmarei. I'm sure it'll get there.




It's not?

Also it's actually been below $400 (hit $328). What happens when it goes below $300? Is that going to be the new range?



Remember that "dishonesty" thing I was talking about? You're doing it again.



Right, because VC firms never get it wrong.



Yes I did, and so did you. I wanted to show the difference between investing and pure speculating. You wanted to hype up BitCoin. Nothing wrong with agendas, let's not make it a dark and murky thing. The world is run by people who have agendas. It's only a bad thing when that agenda makes you act dishonest.

you know what?
you're not really worth my time to respond to this anymore
bravo on the google stock purchase, good job!
this is getting childish

[MediaArtist]

Aww Kmarei, no fun!

Can you at least address this?

[Maestro]

I have come to this conclusion about cyprocurrency. It kind of like using a loan shark as your bank and you have confidence he will be around tomorrow and the government will not shut him down and put him in jail.

Anyone who is investing is praying on people being naive and thinks what the loan shark is doing is all above board.


Just to add to what MediaArtist said about VC,

A VC investment is not a validation of a good idea or good investments. Most VC only make money on 1 in 10 investments, luckily for them the 1 good one usually covers the 9 other bad ones by 2x. Look at the VC company who invested in Whatapp, they put in $60M and Facebook paid $19B you know the VC firm got most of the $19B so all their mistakes were paid for.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Just to add to what MediaArtist said about VC,

A VC investment is not a validation of a good idea or good investments. Most VC only make money on 1 in 10 investments, luckily for them the 1 good one usually covers the 9 other bad ones by 2x. Look at the VC company who invested in Whatapp, they put in $60M and Facebook paid $19B you know the VC firm got most of the $19B so all their mistakes were paid for.

I've heard the average is more like 1 in 15, 1 in 20 in terms of actual profitable investments. But yes, the one that actually hits has historically covered the losses. Our local Angel Fund invested in 37 firms in 2012 (tech coast angels), and I believe maybe 2 of the firms are even profitable today.

[upstatedoc]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Aww Kmarei, no fun!

Can you at least address this?

A zipline from the top of Mt. Everest to the bottom?

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

A zipline from the top of Mt. Everest to the bottom?

This is what I don't get about kmarei.

Me: "over the past 6 months, the highs and lows keep getting lower. See?"


Kmarei: "No they don't! Actually the $1,000 value was not a REAL value, the real value is actually between 400-600."

Me: "But it hit $328 last week?"

Kmarei: "Argh. You're not worth my time! I'm outta here."

No attempt to explain a nearly 6 month decline in value, just outright anger and gruff. I don't understand how a guy who is seemingly fairly intelligent can act so unintelligent about one topic.

[Maestro]

It is called denial, I have been through this with investment, and not wanting to admit I made a bad decision and keep hanging in there hoping something would change.

In 2008 I got smart and go out of everything I knew was not coming back fast and put it into new things which I knew were going to be first to recover and I am far better off today then if I stayed the course.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

A zipline from the top of Mt. Everest to the bottom?

It like the guy who is about to jump off Mt Everest in a squirrel suit, You hope he does not die on the way down.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

This is what I don't get about kmarei.

Me: "over the past 6 months, the highs and lows keep getting lower. See?"


Kmarei: "No they don't! Actually the $1,000 value was not a REAL value, the real value is actually between 400-600."

Me: "But it hit $328 last week?"

Kmarei: "Argh. You're not worth my time! I'm outta here."

No attempt to explain a nearly 6 month decline in value, just outright anger and gruff. I don't understand how a guy who is seemingly fairly intelligent can act so unintelligent about one topic.

Methinks you actually understand very well...