[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

THat's not what I am saying though. I'm saying folks borrow on a LOC against the house and at 2% they use it.

It still feels like there's too much debt and this is gonna end in tears one day.

That's just your speculation though.

Of course it is, we already a warning in 2008/9, but 10 years of good and everyone has forgotten. Add in subprime auto loans and that the government can't seem to print money fast enough.....

Shot guns, pit bulls, and a house in the country is next for us I think.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

Dope. Bring it with a manual and I’m sold

Will a DCT do? Some outlandish claims reported by BestCar via Google translate.

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/171830

Finally grabbed!! Supra GRMN appearance information capture! Demonstrate 520 horsepower with the M3 engine!!!

■M3/M4 in-line 6-cylinder 3L turbo installed will be decided!!!
　The Supra powertrain is made by BMW. Then, of course, it is "M" that emerges as a high performance version.

　Exactly as it is, it was decided that the Supra GRMN, which will be introduced in 2023 in a limited number of 200, will be equipped with an inline 6-cylinder 3L turbo that will be installed in the M3/M4.

The current M4CS shows 460ps/61.2kgm, but the performance has been further improved for the next M4, and the maximum output for the Supra GRMN is 520ps and the maximum torque is 62kgm.

　The transmission to be combined is a 7-speed M-DCT, and it was said that the BMW side initially showed difficulty in supplying this powertrain to Toyota, but Tetsuya Tada said that it was achieved with the efforts of CE.

Naturally, the GR development team is fully committed to tuning chassis related to the high power unit, and the knowledge gained at the Nur 24 Hours race will be utilized to the maximum.

　What is interesting is that there is no plan to install this M unit in the BMW Z4, which was developed in parallel.

　On the BMW side, it seems that the aim is to utilize this performance with the new closed-body M3/M4 instead of the open Z4.

　There is also information that Supra will complete its model life in 2025 and that there will be no next model.

　The Supra GRMN, which will appear at least in 2023, will be the final edition of the current Supra. Is the price about 12 million yen?

[Red Bread]

How would Toyota get a DCT for the S58 when BMW is using the ZF8? Seems fishy.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/34752/...O5E8_S4jKIprnw

https://www.motor1.com/news/433368/t...grmn-m3-rumor/

[Burrcold]

That would be a monster!

[chris719]

It also says it’ll have DCT. I doubt DCT works with S58 considering all other S58 cars are ZF autos.

[NickyC]

Only 200 cars though?

The 2021 seems like a nice compromise with the bumped up power, no doubt a tune could get it quite higher. If you can pick one up brand new for $50k or so that's actually a helluva deal in today's overpriced vehicle terms.

[supra93]

[eluded]

Fake news

[Housekeeping]

Should have had that engine from the start...

[yco]

can BMW make all, new, engine, ever, again, please?!??
1 engine in 20 different models already...

somebody should remind me that the same BMW was producing V10 engines only for sporty version of their saloon car back in the days.. feels like a century before..

[damnitBobby]

They need to put a manual transmission. Otherwise I will never buy one regardless what engine they slap in there

[Tacoma]

Not buying into this rumor.

On BMW M front, why would they further dilute the M brand by putting an M engine into a Toyota? And it would be super embarrassing for the M Division if the S58 equipped Supra GRMN can outrun the G8x. Money could be an explanation but the rumor says only 200 Supras will be so equipped which is immaterial money to BMW.

On Toyota's front, Gazzoo Racing (GRMN brand) supposedly sits at the top of the performance spectrum for Toyota to showcase their performance technology ingenuity, so how good would that ingenuity be if they have to borrow the key component - the engine - from another manufacturer? Like BMW M using an AMG engine, that would be brand kamikaze!

[Aaaaaaaaa]

I have to wait 3 years to try the S58? Oh wait, the X3M/X4M are out already. And the G80 is debuting in a month. Oh yea the next M2 will probably be out before 2023 too. And all of these can be had with good lease deals and no markup. Who are the idiots buying marked up “Supras”?

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

Not buying into this rumor.

On BMW M front, why would they further dilute the M brand by putting an M engine into a Toyota? And it would be super embarrassing for the M Division if the S58 equipped Supra GRMN can outrun the G8x. Money could be an explanation but the rumor says only 200 Supras will be so equipped which is immaterial money to BMW.

On Toyota's front, Gazzoo Racing (GRMN brand) supposedly sits at the top of the performance spectrum for Toyota to showcase their performance technology ingenuity, so how good would that ingenuity be if they have to borrow the key component - the engine - from another manufacturer? Like BMW M using an AMG engine, that would be brand kamikaze!

Very simple - BMW is bleeding money and Toyota has plenty of cash.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Only 200 cars though?

That could just be for the Japanese market.

[supra93]

More of the same rehash info.

https://www.motoring.com.au/toyota-s...-power-125150/

Senior Toyota exec confirms GRNM to not only get BMW M donk, but its dual-clutch transmission too

Toyota has confirmed that its high-performance GRNM version of its fast Toyota Supra coupe will come equipped with a powertrain lifted from the next-gen BMW M4.

Until now, it was thought that engineers were going to turn up the boost on the regular car’s B58 twin-scroll turbocharged 3.0-litre inline six-cylinder but now Japan’s Best Car has revealed those plans have been scrapped.

Instead, the Supra GRNM will harness the power of BMW M division’s next-gen S58 twin-turbocharged 3.0-litre inline six that will produce up to 390kW and 608Nm of torque.

That is a huge power bump over the standard Supra, that even after its 2021 revisions, still only produces 285kW and 500Nm of torque.

To keep up with the new more frenetic S58 engine that will be used in both the next BMW M3 and M4 Toyota’s chief engineer, Tetsuya Tada who broke the news to Best car, said the Supra GRNM ditches the standard eight-speed automatic for M4’s seven-speed M-DCT dual-clutch transmission.

According to Tada, BMW was initially very reluctant to let go of its quick-shifting dual-clutch, especially since there are no plans to drop the BMW M4 powertrain into the closely-related Z4.

To cope with the big bump in power, Toyota GR engineers will completely retune the Supra chassis and, possibly, enter a Supra GRNM prototype in the Nurburgring N24 endurance race as part of its development.

The bad news is there will be a bit of a wait now until the Toyota Supra GRNM arrives in 2023. Worse still, when it lands on the performance car landscape, Best Japan says Toyota plans to make just 200 Supra GRNMs, with each priced around 12m yen ($A160,000.)

[clee1982]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

The 2JZ is up there. Internals so strong many running at 800hp+ without any issues. Can't say BMW have achieved that level often. Why they would opt for a BMW engine beats me.

Come on compare to 2JZ is not fair, 2JZ doesn't have to deal with modern environmental and fuel requirement (and pass your local smog test is not the same thing as meeting environmental requirement for modern car). I mean otherwise Toyota can just take 2JZ and stick into it...

[Grip Addict]

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

On BMW M front, why would they further dilute the M brand by putting an M engine into a Toyota?

I can easily envision scenarios where BMW would be all-too happy to put a previous-gen S motor in a Toyota. Maybe the compensation is more than money... Maybe Toyota is also helping BMW with hybrid technologies.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

I can easily envision scenarios where BMW would be all-too happy to put a previous-gen S motor in a Toyota. Maybe the compensation is more than money... Maybe Toyota is also helping BMW with hybrid technologies.

Toyota is 100% helping BMW with hybrid tech along with hydrogen tech. With how behind BMW is with pushing hybrids, Toyota has great leverage in this scenario. It may dilute the M brand, but that is a small price to pay for keeping up with tightening emissions regulations.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

On Toyota's front, Gazzoo Racing (GRMN brand) supposedly sits at the top of the performance spectrum for Toyota to showcase their performance technology ingenuity, so how good would that ingenuity be if they have to borrow the key component - the engine - from another manufacturer? Like BMW M using an AMG engine, that would be brand kamikaze!

Toyota’s decision here truly baffles me. It’s one thing to use another company’s motor and platform, but to launch a performance line with another company’s motor and platform is ridiculous and makes them look like a joke. Just like TRD, no one will take GRMN seriously if they use another company’s motor