[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

They also haven't had to undercut their status or brand value to achieve their goals, nor have their stock tank while doing such "brilliant" moves. They have surely made their fair share of mistakes along the way. I'm just wondering why this brilliance isn't reflected in the stock price. Maybe it's just that investors are dumb.

Tesla stock is up 743% in last 5 years

BMW stock is down 0.65% last 5 years

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Tesla stock is up 743% in last 5 years

BMW stock is down 0.65% last 5 years

Was tesla stock price not 400 and now 180. That's a > 50% drop when compared to the highs. BMW stock is stable which is inkeeping with a mature business?

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Was tesla stock price not 400 and now 180. That's a > 50% drop when compared to the highs. BMW stock is stable which is inkeeping with a mature business?

Great points. Also, remind me how much the US government or individual states subsidized BMW?

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Tesla stock is up 743% in last 5 years

BMW stock is down 0.65% last 5 years

Tesla is in a growth phase, BMW is many generations old.

In the past Year:
BMW is +7.86 (27.53%)past year
Tesla is -172.40 (-51.27%)past year

That ties back to the point I was making, Tesla is trying to grow past the markets capacity/desire to ingest it's product, to the point it is willing to harm it's margins and alienate it's investors.

It will take time to see just how brilliant that decision is, but we have some data markers that are hinting (strongly) at the need for a change in strategy.

[XutvJet]

Any guesses on how long Tesla will keep the current line up going with little to no changes? The Tesla lineup is OLD and is rivaling what Toyota has done with the 4runner which originally debuted in 2010 and has received only minor updates for the LAST 14 YEARS! If Tesla was like other automakers and introduced truly new model updates every 3 to 5 years, they wouldn't exist. The recent Tesla model MSRP cost cutting is largely the result of a very stale model lineup and economies of scale of keeping things stale. It's also clear how much profit is built into the cars. Tesla isn't alone in this though. I'm looking at you domestic full size truck makers and the suckers that pay stupid money for simple and cheap to manufacture body on frame trucks.

Elon Musk is an amazing innovator and we need more people like him to say "Who says we can't do that?" and then wave a middle finger as he does it. I have thousands in Tesla stock to prove my support of the company.

Are EVs the automotive future? Nope. Are they part of the future? Yep. So is full ICE and hybrid using gasoline, diesel, and alternative fuels.

[AmuroRay]

No one wants electric cars, but automakers are making then because world governments are pushing them to do so. A paperweight disposal car in 5 years

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Was tesla stock price not 400 and now 180. That's a > 50% drop when compared to the highs. BMW stock is stable which is inkeeping with a mature business?

Lets not overlook the two stock splits in the last three years. 5-1 in 2020 and 3-1 last year.

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Any guesses on how long Tesla will keep the current line up going with little to no changes?

Next major update is to Model 3. Project Highland update is due around Sept timeframe. New front/rear bumpers, headlights, mirrors, cameras/electronics, interior refresh, rumored new seats.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

No one wants electric cars, but automakers are making then because world governments are pushing them to do so. A paperweight disposal car in 5 years

False! Tesla sold 181k cars last quarter here in the USA, obviously people out there are happy with their EV's. There are people who are as excited about their EV's as we are about ICE.

We as enthusiasts are a tiny almost insignificant buying demographic. Who oftentimes falsely believe we dictate overall car sales in the industry.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by EXE46

False! Tesla sold 181k cars last quarter here in the USA, obviously people out there are happy with their EV's. There are people who are as excited about their EV's as we are about ICE.

We as enthusiasts are a tiny almost insignificant buying demographic. Who oftentimes falsely believe we dictate overall car sales in the industry.

I’m on my 5th Electric

And yes I am definitely still an enthusiast

The low cost to operate it supplements the cost of owning my ///M car

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by EXE46

False! Tesla sold 181k cars last quarter here in the USA, obviously people out there are happy with their EV's. There are people who are as excited about their EV's as we are about ICE.

We as enthusiasts are a tiny almost insignificant buying demographic. Who oftentimes falsely believe we dictate overall car sales in the industry.

181k total vehicle sales is a drop in the bucket for any car company not named Mitsubishi. Not to mention Tesla’s are garbage, but that’s an entirely different conversation

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

181k total vehicle sales is a drop in the bucket for any car company not named Mitsubishi. Not to mention Tesla’s are garbage, but that’s an entirely different conversation

Reading isn't your strong suit sir/madame. The figure given is for Q1. Last year BMW sold just over 330K total cars in the USA. So clearly Tesla's Q1 figures aren't insignificant. Furthermore, even BMW has seen huge demand for their new EV's. Anyhow, carryon with your conspiracy theory.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Reading isn't your strong suit sir/madame. The figure given is for Q1. Last year BMW sold just over 330K total cars in the USA. So clearly Tesla's Q1 figures aren't insignificant. Furthermore, even BMW has seen huge demand for their new EV's. Anyhow, carryon with your conspiracy theory.

Huge demand? They sold about 2000 units this quarter compared to 3x that in just the 4 series coupe alone.

But yeah, 5% sales with government incentives to push electric sales, in addition to telsa slashing prices x3 times this year, but sure.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Huge demand? They sold about 2000 units this quarter compared to 3x that in just the 4 series coupe alone.

But yeah, 5% sales with government incentives to push electric sales, in addition to telsa slashing prices x3 times this year, but sure.

The US may be lagging in BEV sales overall, but in Q1 2023 BMW Group sold 64,647 worldwide for 11% of their vehicle sales. If PHEVs are included, then plugin electric vehicles accounted for 19% of their sales, i.e. 22% more volume than their total vehicle sales in the US in the same period.

[dradernh]

[DB_Cooper]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

I’m on my 5th Electric

And yes I am definitely still an enthusiast

The low cost to operate it supplements the cost of owning my ///M car

There’s a high moral cost to owning an EV. Hope no one is deluding themselves about that.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Next major update is to Model 3. Project Highland update is due around Sept timeframe. New front/rear bumpers, headlights, mirrors, cameras/electronics, interior refresh, rumored new seats.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Tesla is so like Toyota. Hilarious. The Model 3 came to market in 2017. Some new bumpers covers, headlights, etc. Ohhhh wow! They'll essentially drag the Model 3 through to 2027 without a full redesign.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Tesla is so like Toyota. Hilarious. The Model 3 came to market in 2017. Some new bumpers covers, headlights, etc. Ohhhh wow! They'll essentially drag the Model 3 through to 2027 without a full redesign.

What won't change is charge speed by any material amount.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The US may be lagging in BEV sales overall, but in Q1 2023 BMW Group sold 64,647 worldwide for 11% of their vehicle sales. If PHEVs are included, then plugin electric vehicles accounted for 19% of their sales, i.e. 22% more volume than their total vehicle sales in the US in the same period.

How much of that was influenced by government as opposed to what people wanted to buy? In the US, the sales rightfully lagged because the electric variants are pretty crap, like all electric cars.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by DB_Cooper

There’s a high moral cost to owning an EV. Hope no one is deluding themselves about that.

Maybe text your psychologist

I am good

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

How much of that was influenced by government as opposed to what people wanted to buy? In the US, the sales rightfully lagged because the electric variants are pretty crap, like all electric cars.

Here is a “crap” electric car for you:

It is unlikely events such as Pike’s Peak will have an ICE record holder again over BEV competitors.

I remember when Blackberry and many of it’s users mocked the iPhone.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What won't change is charge speed by any material amount.

I don’t know. Do you really think they won’t improve upon that? Because if they don’t, they’re screwed. There won’t be a 2035. There won’t be at 2085. If they can’t improve charge speed, electric vehicles will stay nothing more than neighborhood conversation pieces that self proclaimed greenies brag about at weekend tofu barbecues.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Here is a “crap” electric car for you:

It is unlikely events such as Pike’s Peak will have an ICE record holder again over BEV competitors.

I remember when Blackberry and many of it’s users mocked the iPhone.

Pike's Peak is the only place an EV can outperform an ICE setup - I think we both know that. As such, it's kind of a crappy example to use with a 1 seater car that costs a million or more.