[chicagofan00]

^That RS6 is gorgeous!

[AVB-AMG]

Originally Posted by chicagofan00

^That RS6 is gorgeous!

Chicagofan00:

I agree! The exterior color on that car is called Florett Silver Metalic, which is the color that I ordered my custom RS 6 Avant Performance to be painted. I also chose to go with the optional Matte Carbon Package for the exterior trim, (both mirror housings, front spoiler, side inserts and rear diffuser), which IMHO looks much better than gloss piano black. For the inteior, I am going with the optional Audi Exclusive Program and have chosen Crimson Red Valcona Leather with honeycomb stitching pattern, (no two-tone colored seats for me). The black leather elements such as dashboard, arm rests and steering wheel will have red stitching.

AVB-AMG

[chicagofan00]

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

Chicagofan00:

I agree! The exterior color on that car is called Florett Silver Metalic, which is the color that I ordered my custom RS 6 Avant Performance to be painted. I also chose to go with the optional Matte Carbon Package for the exterior trim, which IMHO looks much better than gloss piano black. For the inteior, I am going with the optional Audi Exclusive Program and have chosen Crimson Red Valcona Leather with honeycomb stitching pattern, (no two-tone colored seats for me). The black leather elements such as dashboard, arm rests and steering wheel will have red stitching.

AVB-AMG

That is going to be amazing! Make sure to find a thread and post photos here when you get it.

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

To be fair, modern performance engines are simply too powerful for manual transmissions. The amount of HP and torque is just insane now, and electronic control of the transmission is essential. Manual transmissions jumped the shark 2 decades ago. They are only lingering around due to nostalgia.




Yup, that's my feeling as well. Every new car that comes out seems to get uglier and uglier, but they somehow have convinced themselves the designs are great. I just don't know how the executives were able to look at concept drawings for the 7 series, 4 series, and now the 5 series and say "yes, this is the way to go!"

That's flat out not true though - GM has a manual that can cover 700HP in the Corvette/Cadillac platforms. . . My 2014 S4's factory manual transmission clutch lasted for 105,000 miles at 1.75x the factory power (stage 2 + DP).

We're literally talking about like a 5% horsepower/torque bump between the Comp and the "Pure." There is absolutely no way that the transmission can't handle that much additional power. The 6MT would be fine even with a 40% increase in power - they simply don't make them exactly to the maximum spec, and plenty of people out there are modding the 6MT cars and they aren't detonating at any of a faster rate than other cars.

There are actually way less things that can go wrong in a manual transmission with a lot of power than there are in a complex AT. In my s4, the biggest problem was that to change the clutch you had to drop the whole damn transmission thanks to german engineering. Same for any work on the fork/shifter connections. If it wasn't for this a replacement clutch would be a quick in and out job like it should be.

Just so we compare apples to apples and I don't get thrown under the bus for talking about Audis - my 2015 F80 M3 6mt had DP + JB4 custom map. I got 100k out of that clutch and it showed no signs of slipping when I sold it either. I'd have a hard time believing that exact transmission couldn't handle the power in this car (in fact I really don't think they did much engineering on it at all, and that is effectively the transmission in the newer 6mts as well).

TLDR: 5-7% power increase between the comp and the base is 100% not attributable to the transmission not being capable of handling the power in a "modern car" because it is already doing so, and capable of more!

Anyway I don't mean any of this in bad blood. . . I'm just frustrated because I want my own unicorn car which is AWD + Sedan + Manual. My S4 was likely the last of those I'll ever own, because I really don't particularly see myself driving a Caddy. That magnetic suspension is a dream though - got to feel it in my buddy's C7.

**Just to go 1 step further, it's possible that the AWD/Xdrive side is a bit more of a headache with manuals. . . But the fact that they actually still released a Competition model that is not an Xdrive reinforces my point, and it sort of singles out the excuse of AWD being the reason that they didn't do it. I don't think 30HP on a 470HP car is not the difference between in and out of spec with transmission tolerance.

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by brianeck

That's flat out not true though - GM has a manual that can cover 700HP in the Corvette/Cadillac platforms. . . My 2014 S4's factory manual transmission clutch lasted for 105,000 miles at 1.75x the factory power (stage 2 + DP)

It is mainly torque, not power that is the limiting factor on transmissions. Gears don’t change power, but do change torque output. On a RWD car in lower gears when torque output is highest, the real wheels cannot get traction, limiting the rotational forces on the transmission. Think about this as a battle between hard hard the transmission is tryin to turn the output shaft versus how hard the wheels are fighting back. An AWD car offers way more traction in those lower gears and puts higher strain on the transmission in those lower gears.

I do not know of any high-torque, AWD vehicle that GM offers a manual in. The AWD CT6-V was auto only. The Corvette ZR1 and Camaro with the S/C V8 were RWD only.

The manufacturers have to offer transmissions that will survive the abuse consumers will put on them. This is why Porsche hasn’t offered the 911 Turbo with AWD and a stick in over a decade.

Im not aware of any high torque (let’s say over 500 ft lbs) production cars with AWD and a stick. I think the Murci SV is the closest I can think of. It had about 480ft lbs of torque, but a super high fist gear, so output torque in first was lower.

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by brianeck

I just really can't imagine the 100 some odd HP EV motor can move the car around in a meaningful way at its insane weight for the local drives. The power to weight ratio is heinously bad.

At the price point, if you want a faster, more functional EV there are plenty of them. My uncle just got the Rivian pickup. It's a beast, and its just as fast as this car, and its a full size pickup. It has more range, more space, a full size bed, a frunk, and equal passenger availability. By attempting to simultaneously compete with all markets, this car is going to lose to many of them.

1 year ago I would never in a million years assume that someone would cross shop a Rivian pickup with an M5, but given the specs, the weight, the performance and the "swiss army knife" marketing segmentation, it is now a logical cross shop. I think the Rivian wins in like 90% of the categories you could possibly put them against each other in, and I don't even really like it that much.

I wanted to love this car. My whole life I have wanted an m5 and a wagon.

If everything goes the way it should with my business I'm going to make the ultimate purchase statement in 2 years and bring a left hand drive m3 wagon over from the other side of the pond. It may cost as much as an m5, but it will be exactly the car I want.

IMO, the R1T or R1S really isn't a target competitor for the M5 Touring... but people will cross shop how they want. A more realistic BEV vs M5T comparison would IMO be the Taycan 4S CT.... but that said, sure... you can go top spec with a Taycan Turbo S CT and have a _very_ capable BEV, that will beat an M5 or pretty much anything else for that matter in the same segment

GL with importing an M3 Touring.... you'll be about 17 years too early though. If you're successful getting the M3 Touring modified to meet US-spec.... you'll have a real unicorn..and enjoy the heck out of it

Cheers!

[AVB-AMG]

Originally Posted by AudiDad

Attachment 3528202This was to be my next vehicle, but I really need to see it in person at all angles to put a solid deposit down. I want something to compliment my current suv.Attachment 3528203Attachment 3528202[ATTACH]

AudiDad:

I do believe that the Genesis SUV's are near the top of my list of most attractive SUV's currently in production...

AVB-AMG

[junki]

I wrote off the G90 due to its weight, but the G99... is very compelling. One can justify the weight because it's basically a performance CUV. Dad-approved practicality. Imo it's the only choice for the M5.

[vansonrider]

Originally Posted by brianeck

I just really can't imagine the 100 some odd HP EV motor can move the car around in a meaningful way at its insane weight for the local drives. The power to weight ratio is heinously bad.

At the price point, if you want a faster, more functional EV there are plenty of them. My uncle just got the Rivian pickup. It's a beast, and its just as fast as this car, and its a full size pickup. It has more range, more space, a full size bed, a frunk, and equal passenger availability. By attempting to simultaneously compete with all markets, this car is going to lose to many of them.

1 year ago I would never in a million years assume that someone would cross shop a Rivian pickup with an M5, but given the specs, the weight, the performance and the "swiss army knife" marketing segmentation, it is now a logical cross shop. I think the Rivian wins in like 90% of the categories you could possibly put them against each other in, and I don't even really like it that much.

I wanted to love this car. My whole life I have wanted an m5 and a wagon.

If everything goes the way it should with my business I'm going to make the ultimate purchase statement in 2 years and bring a left hand drive m3 wagon over from the other side of the pond. It may cost as much as an m5, but it will be exactly the car I want.

How are you going to bring a left drive M3 wagon to the North America?