[Savoy2001]

I agree with what most of you are saying here. I think we’re all on the same page. There’s no reason for This monstrosity and quite frankly they should have just left the full M version of this car ice only. This thing is so unbelievably over weight it’s ridiculous. This is supposed to be a track car add gt car. Always was so anyone saying different all of a sudden is wrong. Period.

To be honest I don’t see why alot of you guys here don’t talk up the ct5v bw s as the better alternative to this thing potentially. Because honestly. If this car turns out to be a fail that’s the direction I’m going. It really is the car we all want. I know to a lot of people they don’t think it carry’s the panache of the bimmer but it’s also a very nice car and drives way better than this heavy thing will I believe. I live bmw as much as you guys but I don’t think this is going to be the car I’m looking for. In waiting for reveal and some reviews but I see the writing on the wall.

[subterFUSE]

Mercedes-Benz CEO just told Bloomberg UK that they will be extending their all-EV target dates. Current demand simply won't support a 2030 target for ICE elimination.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

Mercedes-Benz CEO just told Bloomberg UK that they will be extending their all-EV target dates. Current demand simply won't support a 2030 target for ICE elimination.

Its slow progress but we’re inching closer and closer to a world where we’ve had enough of appeasing the idealists and the politicians that are actually being motivated by dollars and not ideals. It’s just getting to the inflection point of being too unrealistic and disruptive for the world to keep moving in their direction. Which is what always has to happen for a shift of any size or place - the disturbance of everyday life becomes unsustainable.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by NGT2

Its slow progress but we’re inching closer and closer to a world where we’ve had enough of appeasing the idealists and the politicians that are actually being motivated by dollars and not ideals. It’s just getting to the inflection point of being too unrealistic and disruptive for the world to keep moving in their direction. Which is what always has to happen for a shift of any size or place - the disturbance of everyday life becomes unsustainable.

Yes.

[Savoy2001]

The whole ev only thing will blow up in their free eventually. It’s starting to already. There’s a place for full ev but not for everyone.

[AP]

Have we got to the point of no return where manufacturers cannot revert back to ICEs?
Jaguar comes to mind where they will be ev only from next year
I think they bet on the wrong colour and it’s a bit concern

I’m not against EVs but I am against governments forcing them on EVERYONE
We’re seeing too much of this now, not just cars, replacing gas boilers, smart meters to name a couple more

This is such a pivotal time. Ie as regards the future of the car

[CarlosM4]

Its obvious that german manufacturers are having a hard time with this transition. The loyal customer fanbase of enthusiasts, will take a huge while to adapt to these new offerings, and the new generation of consumers have at their disposal a far greater selection of products. And its a shame too, because german cars were at their peak in terms of quality, technology, performance and reliability.

EV powertrains and characteristics forces all cars to become much closer to one another. Therefore, this means that the German Brand premium should be associated with quality, engineering and tech. But you go into an I5, and its worse inside than a BYD Han (although for the love of me, I would never own a BYD). You check out a IX1, its the same level of fit and finish as a GWM Haval, so I don't know, I feel like german companies are in a bit of a struggle right now.

If the cars become heavy, bloated and less dynamic (the same as the competition), what will be the premium you are paying for when you buy a BMW, Mercedes, Porsche or Audi?

Just food for thought. I think German manufacturers should have thought the process better. Mercedes right now, is at a struggle, and the only reason BMW isn't on the same boat, is that they went for a mixed strategy (same platform for more than one engine architecture, full of compromises from this decision, but at least it gives you some wiggle room).

The moment BMW goes full PHEV and EV on their flagships (M2, M3, M5) - it will be the end of the company. I hope they see this through the fail the M5 will be, and rethink their process.

[Savoy2001]

So the thing is if all the auto manufactures just said no what could the liberal governments do? The answer is nothing. Governments can't build cars lol. So I mean if they just said NO you guys are being way too strict with your demands and the consumers don't want it either then what would happen? They could easily get together and handle this issue. I mean people don't want stuff forced on them and in the end I will not buy a very expensive car like this unless I Love it. This is a total want purchase not a need. So there's alot of us out there. I say if they don't give us what we want just don't buy it. We don't have to buy this junk unless we want too. Vote with your wallet and theuy will have no choice but to change their stance.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

So the thing is if all the auto manufactures just said no what could the liberal governments do? The answer is nothing. Governments can't build cars lol. So I mean if they just said NO you guys are being way too strict with your demands and the consumers don't want it either then what would happen? They could easily get together and handle this issue. I mean people don't want stuff forced on them and in the end I will not buy a very expensive car like this unless I Love it. This is a total want purchase not a need. So there's alot of us out there. I say if they don't give us what we want just don't buy it. We don't have to buy this junk unless we want too. Vote with your wallet and theuy will have no choice but to change their stance.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1919029 —>

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

So the thing is if all the auto manufactures just said no what could the liberal governments do? The answer is nothing. Governments can't build cars lol. So I mean if they just said NO you guys are being way too strict with your demands and the consumers don't want it either then what would happen? They could easily get together and handle this issue. I mean people don't want stuff forced on them and in the end I will not buy a very expensive car like this unless I Love it. This is a total want purchase not a need. So there's alot of us out there. I say if they don't give us what we want just don't buy it. We don't have to buy this junk unless we want too. Vote with your wallet and theuy will have no choice but to change their stance.

Unfortunately, all automakers agreeing will never happen. Some of them would always cave and build EVs, and some like Tesla already only sell EVs.

The goal of elitists is to eliminate cars anyway, so they would gladly see 90% of companies not complying. Too bad for them, and us, but “great for the planet” lol!

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Unfortunately, all automakers agreeing will never happen. Some of them would always cave and build EVs, and some like Tesla already only sell EVs.

The goal of elitists is to eliminate cars anyway, so they would gladly see 90% of companies not complying. Too bad for them, and us, but “great for the planet” lol!

I hear you but at the same time no one is forcing anyone to spend their money on these battery things. Especially at the high end like this. This isn’t just transportation. These are enthusiasts cars and as such I won’t compromise on what I buy with that type of money. Neither should anyone else. That said I’m still holding out hope that I’m going to like this car.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

I hear you but at the same time no one is forcing anyone to spend their money on these battery things.

That’s where you’re wrong. When sales mandates take over you won’t have a choice. After that, any car without the latest suite of autonomy sensors/software is deemed “unsafe” and your beloved used car becomes uninsurable. Obsolete.

I’m not making this up. Industry insiders are already talking. The first step is mandating breathalyzer systems which are data-linked and can remotely shut down your vehicle. This is being sold as “for our safety”, but it is step one of “for their control”. Look it up, it’s coming.

Having private companies spying on us in our own cars is bad enough, but giving government access to our cars remotely is far, far worse.

EDIT: Toronto police have started giving breathalyzer tests to every driver they pull over, and have ensured their legal right to do so. Any data generated will be used to fortify the stance that breathalyzer systems “need” to be incorporated for public safety. This is not published, it’s me looking ahead and reading between the lines.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by M4Ghost

Everyone complains and bitches about these designs then you all buy one. Every single time.

No we don’t. Some of us continue to follow with some brand interest, but plenty got out and recent design choices were definitely part of it.

I was really underwhelmed by the auto in the F90 and it already showed its weight in the corners. It’s probably the best auto in the business, but it wasn’t a DCT and it certainly wasn’t a manual. I seriously considered moving “down” to an M3 until they murdered the front end and neutered the manual. It’s not my only gripe with the car, but I do think it is truly quite ugly and it hasn’t grown on me at all. I actually think it’s worse in person too.

With the new M5 Going all the way up to 5300 lbs vs the power gain is not remotely worth the hybrid component.

I freely admit this isn’t ugly or terrible or anything that extreme. But it is really underwhelming and really overweight for what it’s historically supposed to have been. It just keeps getting less dynamic, which kind of defeats the point. Speed is easy these days and it’s not going to touch the full EVs there. If it also handles and nearly looks like one, what’s the point??

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by italiabrain

No we don’t. Some of us continue to follow with some brand interest, but plenty got out and recent design choices were definitely part of it.

I was really underwhelmed by the auto in the F90 and it already showed its weight in the corners. It’s probably the best auto in the business, but it wasn’t a DCT and it certainly wasn’t a manual. I seriously considered moving “down” to an M3 until they murdered the front end and neutered the manual. It’s not my only gripe with the car, but I do think it is truly quite ugly and it hasn’t grown on me at all. I actually think it’s worse in person too.

With the new M5 Going all the way up to 5300 lbs vs the power gain is not remotely worth the hybrid component.

I freely admit this isn’t ugly or terrible or anything that extreme. But it is really underwhelming and really overweight for what it’s historically supposed to have been. It just keeps getting less dynamic, which kind of defeats the point. Speed is easy these days and it’s not going to touch the full EVs there. If it also handles and nearly looks like one, what’s the point??

I think you nailed it perfectly. Last four cars for me were ///M’s also.

[subterFUSE]

Originally Posted by italiabrain

No we don’t. Some of us continue to follow with some brand interest, but plenty got out and recent design choices were definitely part of it.

Agreed.

I had a 2020 M5 Comp and loved it. When that lease ran out, I ended up getting 2 Audis, a 2023 R8 and a 2023 S8. BMW just didn't have any cars in the lineup that interested me. 7 series is too ugly. The M5 was on the way out. The M8 looks like a Ford Mustang coupe. And they have nothing on the level of an R8.

I'm watching the upcoming M5 with interest, as my S8 is a lease which runs out in 2026. That should be enough time for people to get the car and report their impressions. From the way things look now, this seems like it will be an utterly forgettable generation for M5, like the F10.

RS6 is looking a lot more enticing for now.

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

That’s where you’re wrong. When sales mandates take over you won’t have a choice. After that, any car without the latest suite of autonomy sensors/software is deemed “unsafe” and your beloved used car becomes uninsurable. Obsolete.

I’m not making this up. Industry insiders are already talking. The first step is mandating breathalyzer systems which are data-linked and can remotely shut down your vehicle. This is being sold as “for our safety”, but it is step one of “for their control”. Look it up, it’s coming.

Having private companies spying on us in our own cars is bad enough, but giving government access to our cars remotely is far, far worse.

EDIT: Toronto police have started giving breathalyzer tests to every driver they pull over, and have ensured their legal right to do so. Any data generated will be used to fortify the stance that breathalyzer systems “need” to be incorporated for public safety. This is not published, it’s me looking ahead and reading between the lines.

Well that’s a complete autocratic cryptocrosy and If as a people allow that here in the us then it know what. We get what we deserve. If that’s the type of country we want to all live in and allow that to happen right before our eyes the shame on us all. I will not participate in that nonsense and I sense there’s quite a decent percentage of the American public who will not stand for their rights to be completely trampled on. In the eu I think they have a much better chance of getting away with that garbage. Here? I don’t think that’s going to fly as easily. Although there are plenty of people here that sleep walk through life and do as they are told so we’ll see I guess. Me? I’m out on that shit. I won’t be buying cars with breathalyzers or any other such nonsense in them. I’ll make me own choices with my money thanks. You can lay down for that bs if you want though.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

Well that’s a complete autocratic cryptocrosy and If as a people allow that here in the us then it know what. We get what we deserve. If that’s the type of country we want to all live in and allow that to happen right before our eyes the shame on us all. I will not participate in that nonsense and I sense there’s quite a decent percentage of the American public who will not stand for their rights to be completely trampled on. In the eu I think they have a much better chance of getting away with that garbage. Here? I don’t think that’s going to fly as easily. Although there are plenty of people here that sleep walk through life and do as they are told so we’ll see I guess. Me? I’m out on that shit. I won’t be buying cars with breathalyzers or any other such nonsense in them. I’ll make me own choices with my money thanks. You can lay down for that bs if you want though.

I’m with you 100%. I think most people are easily fooled into thinking these things are for the greater good and gladly give up their freedom. Little do they know it’s a noose tightening around their necks.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...gy-2023-12-12/

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

Well that’s a complete autocratic cryptocrosy and If as a people allow that here in the us then it know what. We get what we deserve. If that’s the type of country we want to all live in and allow that to happen right before our eyes the shame on us all. I will not participate in that nonsense and I sense there’s quite a decent percentage of the American public who will not stand for their rights to be completely trampled on. In the eu I think they have a much better chance of getting away with that garbage. Here? I don’t think that’s going to fly as easily. Although there are plenty of people here that sleep walk through life and do as they are told so we’ll see I guess. Me? I’m out on that shit. I won’t be buying cars with breathalyzers or any other such nonsense in them. I’ll make me own choices with my money thanks. You can lay down for that bs if you want though.

I’m not saying it won’t happen, but that is much harder to pull off in the US. Too many states with their own politics and agendas. You think TX, TN, and FL are going to go along because CA and MA said so? I don’t think so.

[VANOS]

Originally Posted by Igs

Literally this same comment every time a new design is unveiled. Realistically the previous gen cars will continue to depreciate. They will NOT gain any value.


Facts

Ehhh depends… the fact that the new M5 is now a hybrid (a lot of people don’t want to deal with the problems that might come with a hybrid), last gen did go up in value. I know because I have a M5 Comp and that is why I bought mine off; the last true ICE M5 :/

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by VANOS

Ehhh depends… the fact that the new M5 is now a hybrid (a lot of people don’t want to deal with the problems that might come with a hybrid), last gen did go up in value. I know because I have a M5 Comp and that is why I bought mine off; the last true ICE M5 :/

For me I don't mind the hybrid aspect so much as I do mind the extreme weight gain. I mean this thing weighs as much as my current X5MC. What's the point in that? I wanted a car again to feel like a car not a truck. Although I Love my X5M I really do I wanted to feel a more car like experience.

[VANOS]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

For me I don't mind the hybrid aspect so much as I do mind the extreme weight gain. I mean this thing weighs as much as my current X5MC. What's the point in that? I wanted a car again to feel like a car not a truck. Although I Love my X5M I really do I wanted to feel a more car like experience.

I agree, that is another issue, It’s a heavy car! And I can’t wait to hear all the driving reviews to see how this car handles its weight. You would think with all this technology they would come up with a way to make it lighter than the previous generations but of course not! Throw a hybrid and add more power 💥 lmao!

[soflonick]

Originally Posted by VANOS

I agree, that is another issue, It’s a heavy car! And I can’t wait to hear all the driving reviews to see how this car handles its weight. You would think with all this technology they would come up with a way to make it lighter than the previous generations but of course not! Throw a hybrid and add more power 💥 lmao!

The M5 without its fancy computer aids would be a nightmare on track. Can you imagine the tank slapper on 5.5k lb car. I would hate to have to pilot that thing around the ring