[chassis]

The average "car" is 14 years old. This means half of cars are older than 14 years, amazing. I see a fair number of older cars on the road that seem quite roadworthy and capable of years more service. It would be interesting to see this data broken down by make, model and mileage accumulation.

https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en...ns%20normalize.

Vehicles on the road are getting even older, according to new S&P Global Mobility data released last week. The average age of cars and light trucks in the US has risen again to a new record of 12.6 years in 2024, up by two months over 2023. The increase in average age is showing signs of slowing as new registrations normalize.

This continues to improve business opportunities for companies in the aftermarket and vehicle service sector in the US, as repair opportunities are expected to grow alongside vehicle age.

[a5m]

I'd like to see this broken down by State. I'm sure it'll deviate towards even older cars the more you go west.

[BlkGS]

A few thoughts...

Yeah this makes sense. When new car sales drop, there's less cars to skew the numbers at 1 year old.

There's a lot of old cars that are in small towns and rural areas. Back in rural NC it wasn't uncommon to see trucks that were 20-30 years old running around. Only when you went into bigger cities did you see aajority of newish cars.

14 years old doesn't seem that old. I've been looking at E39s and those still feel current. There's like a whole lost decade of shitty cars that care after the late 00s that led up to this "last time builds" era we're in now where everything interesting is dying.

With the insane prices of new cars, reduced content, and general cost cutting, I'm not at all surprised. I expect this number to keep going up by a lot.

[Efthreeoh]

It's a reflection on just how good cars have developed into robust and reliable machines.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by a5m

I'd like to see this broken down by State. I'm sure it'll deviate towards even older cars the more you go west.

Agree. The northern rust belt states are skewing the average downwards.

[Ugly Kar]

I see a whole lot of repair shops around me. Some of the "I can't imagine taking my car there" variety, yet they seem to stay in business.

Reality is inflation is destroying the middle class. How can a family with 3 kids afford a new car?

https://www.usinflationcalculator.co...flation-rates/

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It's a reflection on just how good cars have developed into robust and reliable machines.

Truth. The whole notion that cars were built better and more reliable prior the 1990s is a farce. People drive their cars way longer than they did back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Cars simply didn't last, especially motors and drivetrains.

I don't deny that cars have gotten too complex and expensive to fix, but as a whole, they do last longer.

My biggest concern with later model cars is "Right to repair". So many modules and parts need coding when replaced and in order to do that, you need multi-thousand dollar tools and subscriptions. That's a big problem, IMO.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I see a whole lot of repair shops around me. Some of the "I can't imagine taking my car there" variety, yet they seem to stay in business.

Reality is inflation is destroying the middle class. How can a family with 3 kids afford a new car?

https://www.usinflationcalculator.co...flation-rates/

They don't. Have you seen what a new cheap car goes for now? A COROLLA starts at 23k. The "not as crappy" one is 28k! That's a throwaway car people bought for their highschool or college age kids as a first car. That's a 500-700$ a month payment right now, even with a little money down.

Inflation and interest rates are part of it, but the main culprit is the EPA and their CAFE fines. There is not a single ICE vehicle on the road that meets their requirements, and consumers have to pay those fines. The whole auto industry is doomed of the EPA isn't curtailed.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

They don't. Have you seen what a new cheap car goes for now? A COROLLA starts at 23k. The "not as crappy" one is 28k! That's a throwaway car people bought for their highschool or college age kids as a first car. That's a 500-700$ a month payment right now, even with a little money down.

Inflation and interest rates are part of it, but the main culprit is the EPA and their CAFE fines. There is not a single ICE vehicle on the road that meets their requirements, and consumers have to pay those fines. The whole auto industry is doomed of the EPA isn't curtailed.

At the end of 2019 in the before times I bought a 2020 Corolla LE (I think, still had alloy wheels, keyless entry and a sunroof) and it cost me $17k or $18k OTD. Sold it a year or two later for like $20k during all the craziness.

Honestly for non car people it's a great little car. Has pretty much anything you could want. My mom bought one around the same time and she still has it and it's been rock solid.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

At the end of 2019 in the before times I bought a 2020 Corolla LE (I think, still had alloy wheels, keyless entry and a sunroof) and it cost me $17k or $18k OTD. Sold it a year or two later for like $20k during all the craziness.

Honestly for non car people it's a great little car. Has pretty much anything you could want. My mom bought one around the same time and she still has it and it's been rock solid.

Don't disagree. My wife's sister bought one, she is the definition of "drive it into the ground". No upkeep, barely does oil changes, puts a lot of miles on and any work it might need is probably gonna get ignored. It's the ideal car for her, because it just goes, and doesn't use a ton of gas. It even has radar cruise control in an inexpensive car that just works.

My point wasn't that it's a bad car, it isn't. It was that it's a basic car at the low end of the price spectrum that's still expensive to actually buy. A $500-700 a month payment is a lot, that's way more than most middle class families can afford, so we are now to the point where a middle class family can't even afford a new Corolla.

[Alfisti]

I can tell you why they are getting older, primarily because the cost of replacement is so high. The cheapest new car in Canada, as in a full blown tiny penalty box, is $451 a month. So best part of $5,500 a year. I drive a beat up 16 year old Saab wagon and it needed about $5K worth of work, made zero sense to buy new when for $5K one off expense I can have a better vehicle.

Pricing is wild on new cars, just wild.

[NickyC]

Car shopping is absolutely depressing now. The insane new car costs along with high interest rates (best I can do is 5.99% at a local CU), makes me nauseated to even think about getting a new car. I just have no will to make an optional purchase and feed into the greed. We have lost 25% of our buying power in the past three years, this cannot continue.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Don't disagree. My wife's sister bought one, she is the definition of "drive it into the ground". No upkeep, barely does oil changes, puts a lot of miles on and any work it might need is probably gonna get ignored. It's the ideal car for her, because it just goes, and doesn't use a ton of gas. It even has radar cruise control in an inexpensive car that just works.

My point wasn't that it's a bad car, it isn't. It was that it's a basic car at the low end of the price spectrum that's still expensive to actually buy. A $500-700 a month payment is a lot, that's way more than most middle class families can afford, so we are now to the point where a middle class family can't even afford a new Corolla.

Agree, but it's not just cars. I feel everything is insanely expensive. I'm not sure how much of that is inflation and craziness since covid and how much is me getting old and thinking back on how much I paid for stuff 10-15 years ago and feeling things should still cost that much.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Agree, but it's not just cars. I feel everything is insanely expensive. I'm not sure how much of that is inflation and craziness since covid and how much is me getting old and thinking back on how much I paid for stuff 10-15 years ago and feeling things should still cost that much.

It's both. The inflation since 2020 has been absolutely brutal, and effectively wiped out the hopes of generations to ever get ahead. Put simply, if you did not already have money in the stock market and own a home, you were set back probably 10 years financially. On the other hand, if you were near retirement, with a home you had bought 30-40 years ago, a healthy 401k, maybe an IRA too, you made out like a bandit. We were very lucky that we bought our current home in 2020, it has basically doubled in value since then. The house we sold in NC is up 50% since we sold it in 2020. My parents sold their house in January of 2020 and planned to build in NC. The home they sold is up over a million dollars since they sold, and the spike in lumber prices meant they weren't able to build anything. They had just about the worst timing possible, they were devastated financially by it.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Agree, but it's not just cars. I feel everything is insanely expensive. I'm not sure how much of that is inflation and craziness since covid and how much is me getting old and thinking back on how much I paid for stuff 10-15 years ago and feeling things should still cost that much.

It’s not in your head. Inflation being “transitory” was a disgusting lie.

[gonzo]

This was Intentional is the new This is Fine.

[Burn-N-AZ]

I just found a 85" 4K QLED at Best Buy for $900.

Talk about disposable.

[Donatello.]

& people on this forum keep telling me I'm just an idiot etc for saying new car pricing is out of control.

Yea, good luck...

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Agree, but it's not just cars. I feel everything is insanely expensive. I'm not sure how much of that is inflation and craziness since covid and how much is me getting old and thinking back on how much I paid for stuff 10-15 years ago and feeling things should still cost that much.

That is because everything IS out of control. No wonder the average American is in debt & can't afford to do anything.

This is all going to blow up in a huge way at some point if things do not change.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I see a whole lot of repair shops around me. Some of the "I can't imagine taking my car there" variety, yet they seem to stay in business.

Reality is inflation is destroying the middle class. How can a family with 3 kids afford a new car?

https://www.usinflationcalculator.co...flation-rates/

They can't. Also, the "middle class" is dead anyway. You are a have or have not at this point. Sad & disgusting times.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

That is because everything IS out of control. No wonder the average American is in debt & can't afford to do anything.

This is all going to blow up in a huge way at some point if things do not change.

Nothing will change. Our people and government are addicted to debt. Our government talks about "slowing the rate of growth of deficits" like it's some huge achievement. They build in spend growth over time so they can have "spending cuts" that are still spending more money and sound good like they're being responsible.

The US government spends more on interest payments on its debts than it does on DEFENSE. You wanna complain about the military industrial complex? Let's talk about the financial industrial complex.

[zx10guy]

With these topics, I really wish there's more emphasis on median numbers versus average as outliers often skew the average numbers. Also it's more telling as to the higher concentration of cars of a specific age with median numbers.

As to the affordability of cars, it's due to a number of factors in my mind. One is the elevated expectations of what people expect out of a "basic" car. To me a basic car is one with no electronics, no power windows or locks, no nothing. Just a car to get you from point A to point B. But good luck finding that these days. Then there's the elevated caviar tastes of the general buying public where they expect certain features such as fully connected Infotainment systems. Even statements made here about what a crappy/disposable car is....pretty telling.

And as such the manufacturers have shifted focus to cater to what sells. So if no one is buying basic/budget/affordable cars, then why should manufacturers continue to offer them? We saw this in action during the stupidity of Covid where people were going nuts with buying cars well over asking price at the higher model lines.

I got my 2019 C-HR LE new before the idiocy of the current car market and glad I did. It was the most basic transportation that met my needs in terms of space and utility. Bought it for just over $20k out the door. Still have it and have put 143k miles on it. I drive the crap out of it and don't have any complaints other than the anemic powerplant. But it does the job and so far, I've only done routine maintenance on it. I'll continue to drive this call till the wheels fall off as I did with my previous vehicles.

Other than issues with Right to Repair are parts availability. There should be an expansion of the minimum number years parts need to be made available by manufacturers from 10 years to maybe 15 years or more. The oldest vehicle in my fleet is a 97 F150 I picked up from my stepfather. So far parts haven't been a problem thankfully. But I haven't had to do anything major to the truck. The 2004 Kawasaki ZX-10R I owned since buying new....well, that bike I have encountered parts issues. I tried to get a replacement rear hugger and could no longer get a new OEM replacement. Even getting a used one in decent shape wasn't an option. Fortunately, I was able to get an aftermarket carbon fiber replacement which also forced me to replace the front fender to maintain aesthetic symmetry. This bike still looks showroom new and it would be a shame to have the bike "totaled" due to not being able to get a part to keep it running.