[Diver]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...next-11-years/

Obama has made a deal with the Chinese to cut US C02 emissions at least 26% by 2025. The Chinese will try to cap their C02 emissions by 2030 in exchange.

Doubtless this will have an effect on the cars we can buy (beyond the already draconian EPA regulations) and other aspects of our lives.

[EmPower]

Originally Posted by Diver

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...next-11-years/

Obama has made a deal with the Chinese to cut US C02 emissions at least 26% by 2025. The Chinese will try to cap their C02 emissions by 2030 in exchange.

Doubtless this will have an effect on the cars we can buy (beyond the already draconian EPA regulations) and other aspects of our lives.

How is this a bad thing?

[Diver]

Originally Posted by EmPower

How is this a bad thing?

When your electricity rates double or triple and the only car you can buy is a Prius you will know it is bad.

Germany, the uber green country has the highest electricity rates in the world, except for a few isolated places that have to burn oil. The country is in an economic funk and is exporting jobs to the US because we have cheap power. When that cheap power goes away, so will the jobs. Anyone who loses their job over this will think it is a disaster, not just bad.

Why do we have to go to these extremes after 18 years of flat temperatures?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Diver

When your electricity rates double or triple and the only car you can buy is a Prius you will know it is bad.

Germany, the uber green country has the highest electricity rates in the world, except for a few isolated places that have to burn oil. The country is in an economic funk and is exporting jobs to the US because we have cheap power. When that cheap power goes away, so will the jobs. Anyone who loses their job over this will think it is a disaster, not just bad.

Why do we have to go to these extremes after 18 years of flat temperatures?

Because Liberals are idiots and think money is just printed and is not really connected to the concept "economic value add", which is what actually creates (earned) wealth.

[gonzo]

Maybe Air Force One will run out of that "horrible" fuel and sink on the way back.
Ass hat puppet pansie.

[Diver]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Maybe Air Force One will run out of that "horrible" fuel and sink on the way back.
Ass hat puppet pansie.

That would be fine.

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Maybe Air Force One will run out of that "horrible" fuel and sink on the way back.
Ass hat puppet pansie.

Originally Posted by Diver

That would be fine.

[gonzo]

Asshat is one word.

Asshat puppet pansie wussmeister.
Fixed.

[NickyC]

I'm all for taxing C02 as much as possible. Here in St. Louis, we just got blasted with record cold global warming in early November. If it wasn't for that evil global warming, we'd probably be 40 degrees below normal as opposed to only around 30 degrees below normal now.

Record cold, no measurable sea level increase, ice caps expanding, ZERO hurricane activity for almost 10 years, and no rise in global temperatures for 18 years now means we definitely need draconian, useless, middle class and business destroying taxes on C02 emissions NOW!!!!

[fecurtis]

ITT: Southerns being ignorant.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Diver

When your electricity rates double or triple and the only car you can buy is a Prius you will know it is bad.

Germany, the uber green country has the highest electricity rates in the world, except for a few isolated places that have to burn oil. The country is in an economic funk and is exporting jobs to the US because we have cheap power. When that cheap power goes away, so will the jobs. Anyone who loses their job over this will think it is a disaster, not just bad.

Why do we have to go to these extremes after 18 years of flat temperatures?

Yes, their economic "funk" is solely because of their electricity rates and has absolutely nothing to do with the mess that is the Euro and the fact that Germany has to support a bunch of deadbeat countries who are also in the EU.

The fact that you bring politics into this already dooms this conversation and then spout nonsense like the above. At least the Chinese in urban areas won't get lung cancer in a couple decades by simply standing outside and breathing.

[Brunotheboxer]

And this is why I'm never getting rid of my 14 gt500. Obama can kiss my olive ass.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

ITT: Southerns being ignorant.

Attaboy!
That's powerful thinking.
Genius?

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

ITT: Southerns being ignorant.

Southerns? It took a lot more than just Southerns to put that drubbing on you boys last week.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Southerns? It took a lot more than just Southerns to put that drubbing on you boys last week.

What does election results have to do with the ignorant assertion that Germany's economic troubles stem from high utility rates? It's a woefully ignorant point of view that only comes from blindly believing anything you hear on talk radio or network news, regardless of political affiliation.

I'm not sure who "You boys" are supposed to be. I never mentioned anything as to my own political affiliation just making fun of the absolute nonsense in this thread. Most of those who lost last week deserved it. Sadly those moving into DC soon will likely be no better.

The best thing about most political discussions such as this are the hilarious blind eyes to reality and just hyperbolic slippery slope arguments. Just goes to show who blindly listens to MSNBC and Fox News so long as it feeds a misplaced ideology.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Attaboy!
That's powerful thinking.
Genius?

Coming from the guy who used the term "assshat", I'm not too concerned on what you view as "powerful thinking".

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Coming from the guy who used the term "assshat", I'm not too concerned on what you view as "powerful thinking".

That was powerful thinking regarding our POTUS performance.
Julia's secretive learning to swim at the Y with a different actor.

[Diver]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Yes, their economic "funk" is solely because of their electricity rates and has absolutely nothing to do with the mess that is the Euro and the fact that Germany has to support a bunch of deadbeat countries who are also in the EU.

The fact that you bring politics into this already dooms this conversation and then spout nonsense like the above. At least the Chinese in urban areas won't get lung cancer in a couple decades by simply standing outside and breathing.

It is true Germany has other problems, but several articles on business websites have pointed to high electric rates as a crippling one for manufacturing. The Euro declined from $140 to $1.24 this year which should help German exports but during this period the German economy has gone down. The amount given to support countries on the periphery is a pittance.

The problem in China is old fashioned local pollution. CO2 emissions do not clog the air and are irrelevant. They need to spend some money on scrubbers.

Climate change is inherently a political topic. Only politicians would attempt to force spending trillions on reducing CO2 emissions when temperatures stopped climbing 18 years ago, it is freezing in North America, Antarctic ice is expanding, and there are numerous fudges in the data which indicate the increase was less than claimed.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Diver

It is true Germany has other problems, but several articles on business websites have pointed to high electric rates as a crippling one for manufacturing. The Euro declined from $140 to $1.24 this year which should help German exports but during this period the German economy has gone down. The amount given to support countries on the periphery is a pittance.

The problem in China is old fashioned local pollution. CO2 emissions do not clog the air and are irrelevant. They need to spend some money on scrubbers.

Climate change is inherently a political topic. Only politicians would attempt to force spending trillions on reducing CO2 emissions when temperatures stopped climbing 18 years ago, it is freezing in North America, Antarctic ice is expanding, and there are numerous fudges in the data which indicate the increase was less than claimed.

The problem in China is its heavy reliance on coal factories. To deny its impact on air pollution is to deny science and climate change is not a political conversation but rather a scientific one. Bringing in politics to topics such as global warming and macroeconomics dumbs them down to absolute nonsense which is unfortunate as there are lots of good discussion to be had.

Thanks for the reasonable reply though. I'd argue of all of the complicated issues going on in Germany and the EU, utility rates are towards the bottom of the list as far as weighted impact is concerned.

Also if I were to shape a dialog around this topic I wouldn't base it on the notion that climate change is some liberal scare tactic. To do so would dismiss the extensive independent scientific research worldwide on the issue. It would be more interesting to discuss just how much CO2 emissions are from automobiles vs differing types of power generating factories vs the emissions caused from things as simple as cow farts and the fact that we cut down is is plenty of trees for building and agriculture purposes. All of which contribute to CO2 emissions.

Instead, making it political results in a degradation of the topic to baseless talking points and conspiracies about some silly plot to have everyone drive a Prius.

[son_of_siggy]

Given that this is a car forum I'll keep my response car related. Lots of people like to tout the epa and the c02 restrictions as the doomsday for cars. Yet today, with more regulation and restrictions than say ten years ago, our cars have never been faster, safer, AND more fuel efficient. The fact that we have have cars that can do sub 4 second 0-60 and get 30+ mpg is a testament to that.

[EmPower]

Originally Posted by son_of_siggy

Given that this is a car forum I'll keep my response car related. Lots of people like to tout the epa and the c02 restrictions as the doomsday for cars. Yet today, with more regulation and restrictions than say ten years ago, our cars have never been faster, safer, AND more fuel efficient. The fact that we have have cars that can do sub 4 second 0-60 and get 30+ mpg is a testament to that.

And yet CO2 levels have never been higher; sea levels still rise and arctic ice still melts at an alarming rate. I am not sure how seemingly educated people can be so dumb or be so lackadaisical towards a problem that has reached a point of no return.

I am all for responsible capitalism; but the repugnicunts are a breed of selfish, boorish, acerbic, uneducated, near sighted, power hungry bullies that throw hissy fits when god forbid someone suggests a progressive solution that would ultimately be for the good of us all.

...Murrrricah!!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

ITT: Southerns being ignorant.

I live 80 miles south west of you - LOL