[wjones14]

What are everyone's thoughts on this year's comparison? Was the M2 better or worse than expected? Which cars disappointed? Which cars amazed?

These are mine:

-- Surprised that the Tesla P85D is such a one-hit wonder, performance-wise. 11 second 1/4 mile beats almost any other car, but yet it can't make a lap around VIR without going into limp mode. Worst. lap. time. ever.

-- Surprised there isn't more Internet buzz over the Viper ACR. It only beat the Ferrari 488GTB, McLaren 570S, and Porsche 911 GT3 RS, to name a few. It actually beat everything else there...

-- Chevy is the big winner. All their performance cars are incredible overachievers at their price. The Corvette Grand Sport especially, laying down the same time as the 911 GT3, and beating the McLaren and Acura NSX. And then there's $44K Camaro SS 1LE beating the lap time of the $200K Audi R8 V10 Plus. Even the V6 Camaro 1LE shone - it obliterated the previous record in the LL1 class by 8 seconds!

-- Glad the M2 beat the Focus RS, V6 Camaro 1LE, and Dodge Hellcat at least. And it crushed the disappointing Audi TTS. But it got smoked by the Camaro SS 1LE (by 7 seconds) and Mustang GT350R (10 seconds) in its class.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...at-vir-feature

[wjones14]

And as far as the annual Lightning Lap feature itself, I think it's awesome. And better than ever this year! It's the one apples-to-apples comparison where there are all these great cars on the same track, same drivers, and same conditions. It just leaves me wanting more...

The statistics are great as well, with the comparisons at each track sector, tire comparisons, etc. It's all an interesting read.

And then there are the in-car videos for each car. Some of them are wild rides.

The only sort of useless information, unfortunately, is the historical data. The track has changed over the years being repaved twice, and the weather conditions change as well. It's still fun to compare cars between years, but it has to be taken with a grain of salt.

[FriskyDingo]

Germans performed rather poorly all things considered. The Americans cleaned up this go-round big time. Crazy performance for the money by every Domestic car.

[Nkc]

The ACR is the American middle finger to all hypercars with a minimum 7 figure sticker. The crazy thing is, a lot of these cars can pull a pretty quick lap time but can they go for 5, 10, 15, 20 laps with consistency? The Damn ACR can run all day. Even the great all mighty 918 will start showing power fatigue after 2-3 laps. Simple naturally aspirated V10, 6 speed manual transmission, no fancy suspension, just plain old old school shit that people thought were outdated and slow and yet it's the fastest car under $1M and many times beyond a million bucks. And driving it fast is an orgasmic event every time.

I'm glad I went domestic this year as it's their time to shine. BMW (especially the M division) sold their soul long ago to chase max profit and sales. There's nothing special about the brand anymore aside from the badge and the heritage reminding us how great things were back then. Let's hope bmw redeems themselves with a respectable M2csl.

[Apex Everything]

I was bored, so I nerded out a little with their list.

There are 199 cars on their list.

I have driven 10 (will be 11 next week with a McLaren 570S) of the cars they have tested.

As of right now, I have only driven 5.03% of the cars on their list (5.53% next week).

Adjusting the list taking out 3 cars likely impossible to drive: Porsche 918 Spyder and the two cop cars it will be 5.10% (5.61% next week).

[Vigilante375]

Talking about the Tesla. Its not made to be ragged on a road course like other cars. Its a straight line shooter and needs to be cooled down, every time. Until those electric motors, battery and everything else in electric cars can be cooled a lot better, then electric cars will never do good on a road course.

The 1LE has always been a amazing car. It was last gen and it is now. Now that its a package on the V6 version is disappointing. But whatever will make the cars sell, thats all that matters to the big wigs.

No surprise the V8 1LE beat the M2. More power and better grip. Even last gen beat it but a few tenths of a second. And the Focus RS hasn't lived up to its hype. So I'm over the hype of that car.

Those ACR Vipers have always been a force to reckon with. As long as you could control it, that is.

My thing is the GT350R. It is still slower than last gen Z/28. So that shows the new Z/28 (if they make one) will destroy the GT350R. I had more hopes for it but we'll have to wait to see how the 6th Gen ZL1 will handle it. But I have some faith in it as the SS 1LE knocked 7 seconds on its lap times, then why can the new ZL1? Or maybe a tad more?

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Nkc

The ACR is the American middle finger to all hypercars with a minimum 7 figure sticker. The crazy thing is, a lot of these cars can pull a pretty quick lap time but can they go for 5, 10, 15, 20 laps with consistency? The Damn ACR can run all day. Even the great all mighty 918 will start showing power fatigue after 2-3 laps. Simple naturally aspirated V10, 6 speed manual transmission, no fancy suspension, just plain old old school shit that people thought were outdated and slow and yet it's the fastest car under $1M and many times beyond a million bucks. And driving it fast is an orgasmic event every time.

I'm glad I went domestic this year as it's their time to shine. BMW (especially the M division) sold their soul long ago to chase max profit and sales. There's nothing special about the brand anymore aside from the badge and the heritage reminding us how great things were back then. Let's hope bmw redeems themselves with a respectable M2csl.

I think the difference is, as far as the Viper is concerned, compared to things like the ZL-1, Z/28, Corvette Z06 and Grandsport, Mustang 350/R and others, is that the Viper is a no-holds track car. I mean, just look at that wing and splitter. The others are ones that can tear up mountain roads, but still get you around the city without too much trouble. The Viper ACR is so far into the race-car category that it detracts from the overall car IMO. Some of the top-end porsches are the same way, but move down a level or two and they don't give up much and are infinitely more livable.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

No surprise the V8 1LE beat the M2. More power and better grip. Even last gen beat it but a few tenths of a second. And the Focus RS hasn't lived up to its hype. So I'm over the hype of that car.

At less than 200lbs heavier with that monster of an engine, good weight balance and amazing suspension, yeah, no surprise. Any time I start thinking about a faster BMW, I revert back to how much fun my SS with stiffer sways and strut braces was, there's just no comparison in handling IMO. I'd like to see an M2 about 200lb lighter at least.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by Nkc

The ACR is the American middle finger to all hypercars with a minimum 7 figure sticker.

Pretty much sums it up.

I agree with everything OP said in the initial statement, Chevy truly was the big winner. The Grand Sport hit well above its price tag and the Camaro's came in (remember this is only the 1LE, wait until the zl1) and mopped the competition. Phenomenal showing!

[Mingwan]

Im surprised no one noticed the NSX here. It won for having the most transmission speeds out of all the cars there. That's a pretty big deal in my book.

Also pretty impressed with the 488. Really. I didn't expect it to be as quick as it was. Makes me wonder how much faster the 650s would've been, if at all.

[tranquility]

Tx for the nice reading material, OP!

everyone>
So, what in your opinion is the best *road* car (that tracks well) [and not a blatant track car that just squeaks by w/ enough road-worthy parts to be roadworthy] if not taking the lap time as the overriding factor? Seems like the Viper is kinda like a Caterham beating everyone else since it's (the latter 'car') so dedicated as a track weapon and pretty much a glorified gokart...is the Viper much the same way? Didn't read the link(s) yet.

[FriskyDingo]

By most accounts- and to be clear, I have NOT driven one- it seems to be the GT3 RS. Maybe lacking in outright speed, but a cohesive package with nearly unmatched pedigree that is a blast to drive.

[Vigilante375]

SS 1LE or Audi V10.

[fcman]

Track day specials are boring cars for boring, serious people, that's why the ACR has no hype. I'd rather have a hang out with a guy in a regular Viper than one with an ACR because the ACR owner is either a hardcore car/track nerd or someone trying way too hard for attention and bragging rights. But you just know the guy who owns a regular Viper is out there for a laugh. Same thing goes for the M4 GTS and GT3 RS, although maybe those aren't as bad as the Viper.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by fcman

Track day specials are boring cars for boring, serious people, that's why the ACR has no hype. I'd rather have a hang out with a guy in a regular Viper than one with an ACR because the ACR owner is either a hardcore car/track nerd or someone trying way too hard for attention and bragging rights. But you just know the guy who owns a regular Viper is out there for a laugh. Same thing goes for the M4 GTS and GT3 RS, although maybe those aren't as bad as the Viper.

Hmm... you've obviously have not driven on a track.

It can be very serious and hardcore, but you don't need to drive it as such. Most track day specials are great fun cars to drive on any road. There's nothing boring about pushing the limits of what you and your car can do.

If you want to chill and cruise, you can do that in any car - no need for a sports car.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Z K

Hmm... you've obviously have not driven on a track.

It can be very serious and hardcore, but you don't need to drive it as such. Most track day specials are great fun cars to drive on any road. There's nothing boring about pushing the limits of what you and your car can do.

If you want to chill and cruise, you can do that in any car - no need for a sports car.

Well, I 'kinda' get what he's saying. I'm sure that there are some very chill guys at the track, but those cars that had perfectly nice rear seats, those other extreme guys opted to go for the extreme version of those cars and get roll cages instead, in addition to other sacrifices to scrap off a few seconds off their laptimes. Unless they're rolling in $$$ and that car is exclusively used for the track, that's cool, but if they see road time that's kinda awkward.

My pet peeve, one example, you have these super expensive cars and instead of real door levers they put fabric in to 'save wt'. LMAO, as if those micron savings in wt will be anything but negligible. That insane all-costs to try to get to the bare minimum is just crazy and silly.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Well, I 'kinda' get what he's saying. I'm sure that there are some very chill guys at the track, but those cars that had perfectly nice rear seats, those other extreme guys opted to go for the extreme version of those cars and get roll cages instead, in addition to other sacrifices to scrap off a few seconds off their laptimes. Unless they're rolling in $$$ and that car is exclusively used for the track, that's cool, but if they see road time that's kinda awkward.

My pet peeve, one example, you have these super expensive cars and instead of real door levers they put fabric in to 'save wt'. LMAO, as if those micron savings in wt will be anything but negligible. That insane all-costs to try to get to the bare minimum is just crazy and silly.

Yeah you get it. The kind of guy who makes just enough to afford an ok DD and a $100k weekend car, so he buys the ACR instead of something like a perfectly streetable AND trackable 911S for the sole fact that it's going to be the fastest thing at the track day and he can take it to cars and coffee to make people go "oooh and ahh". He didn't buy it because it's his favorite, he bought it because it was the fastest, most hardcore thing he could buy for the money. I'm not saying I hate these people or anything, but I would rather hang out with a guy who showed up to the track in his AMG GT S or Aston V12 Vantage, because you know they're just there to have a good time.

If it's a guys 3rd/4th/5th car (or he dailies something nice) then I agree, that's cool.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by wjones14

-- Surprised that the Tesla P85D is such a one-hit wonder, performance-wise. 11 second 1/4 mile beats almost any other car, but yet it can't make a lap around VIR without going into limp mode. Worst. lap. time. ever.

It's also amazing winter car, kids/cargo hauler and tows very well
I really like my personal roller coaster


But, yeah, it's great for everything, but the track

[RM7]

Originally Posted by wjones14

-- Surprised that the Tesla P85D is such a one-hit wonder, performance-wise. 11 second 1/4 mile beats almost any other car, but yet it can't make a lap around VIR without going into limp mode. Worst. lap. time. ever.

Lets be honest, 95% of people that are interested in "fast" cars are interested in going fast from a stoplight, quarter miles, 0-60, and passing people in a straight line on the highway. In all of these, it excels.

I love good suspension and taking corners like crazy, but cars like the Challenger/Charger sell because most people don't give a **** about that. We are in the minority. That car (Tesla) is made for the majority.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

It's also amazing winter car, kids/cargo hauler and tows very well
I really like my personal roller coaster


But, yeah, it's great for everything, but the track

Don't get me wrong - I love Teslas. There's something to be said for a production vehicle that can out-accelerate just about any other production vehicle short of a motorcycle.

Like I said, I was just shocked that it couldn't make a single lap around the track.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Don't get me wrong - I love Teslas. There's something to be said for a production vehicle that can out-accelerate just about any other production vehicle short of a motorcycle.

Like I said, I was just shocked that it couldn't make a single lap around the track.

I agree
P100d may have a better chance, since they revised the battery pack and cooling a little bit
However I doubt this is going to be a suitable track car. Nevertheless, I am enjoying acceleration, speed and handling on my car
It does everything very well outside of the track

[eluded]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

And the Focus RS hasn't lived up to its hype. So I'm over the hype of that car.

the Focus does destroy its competition though. Not bad but I was also hoping for more.