[Jason]

BIMMERPOST NEWS

Future BMW M Cars Won't Get 4 Cylinder Gas Engine, But Hybrid Not Ruled Out

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In a conversation by Caradvice with BMW M CEO, Frank Van Meel, the topic of 4-Cylinder M models came up. The good news (for now) is that BMW M is keen to continue powering its 6 cylinder M models with the same # of cylinders instead of dropping displacement to turbo 4 cylinders, as Mercedes has done with its entry level AMG models.

“We are really happy with our six-cylinder [engines] because for BMW and BMW M that is our heritage engine. We started with six-cylinder in the M1 so it has a long history. BMW is a six-cylinder inline company and, for us, it’s an iconic engine,” Van Meel said.

“If you look at it with a four-cylinder, I don’t see characteristics that I would like on an M car, on a small displacement turbocharged four-cylinder engine. I wouldn’t do a four-cylinder standalone turbocharged with high performance, because you always have the characteristic that if you want high performance you lose the low-end torque and you lose the overall driveability you want to have from the car.”

“Electrification would help because low-end torque is done with electric motors. On the other hand, you are putting a lot of weight into the car, so that answer is not so easy. To say ‘just do it’, you lose the motorsport topic of power-to-weight ratio which is very important with overall weight.

“So, at the time-being, it’s a dilemma – but we are working on that with our project ‘i’ colleagues to have a look at the next generation of battery cells, regarding weight, power, density and range to find the right tipping point to say ‘now it makes sense to go in that right direction’… but today is not the right time.”

It is only a matter of time, however, before we see hybrid and full-electric M models, as Van Meel has previously confirmed.

For now, Van Meel says that “with the current generation we see ‘E’ motors that are still not strong enough for M applications, and if you look at plug-in hybrids, it will add 2-300kg – which, for a car like an M3/M4 with 1500kg – would put that completely out of balance and we couldn’t rebalance that towards a typical M philosophy.

“So, with nowadays technology, we don’t see that [working], but I can’t tell you what the next steps with the BMW group will be.”

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Let's hope the M models stay desirable but much like the current Boxster/Cayman I wouldn't be surprised if every other non-M model went turbo 4cyl.

[Thescout13]

Then again, in the past they did say we would never see AWD or turbocharged M cars, so who knows.

I am not saying I am against going to a 4-cyl. in the future, but these predictions tend to fluctuate in reality depending on the market. It is at least good to know about the next gen.

[Nomana]

Uncertainty I'm afraid

[RPiM5]

Good, now to just make future 6cyl M engines sound good.

And I hope I’m not alive anymore the day they announce a Fully Electric BMW M5.

[yousefnjr]

Odd that they take a stand on something in this age of blasphemy, especially when arguably the most iconic M of all had 4 cylinders

[DrtyJrze]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Then again, in the past they did say we would never see AWD or turbocharged M cars, so who knows.

I am not saying I am against going to a 4-cyl. in the future, but these predictions tend to fluctuate in reality depending on the market. It is at least good to know about the next gen.

Exactly. They will say that now, but when the rubber meets the road (haha) I got a feeling the current BMW leadership will do what is best for the bottom line.

Kind of like how they are now telling us that the new steel driveshafts are just as good as the carbon fiber ones they raved about a few years back...

[mkoesel]

The thing is, at the same time, BMW either already has moved to or is moving to their UKL platform for most of their small cars. And, for the UKL platform, I6 engines are not an option since they would have to be mounted transversally whereas the platform is not designed to accommodate such a setup. This means that BMW's small sedan, hatchback, SUV, and Gran Coupe (and Gran Touring, if anyone cares about those) will be four-cylinder only. And thus, there will be no proper M variants of those products. Therefore, if you want a small high performance sedan, hatchback, or SUV you must only consider offerings from Mercedes-AMG (*45 models) and Audi Sport (RS models).

So this is a mixed bag. It's great if you want a small high performance coupe (or theoretically, convertible, if they were to build an M2 convertible). But if you want something more practical, BMW won't be able to help. Meanwhile, Audi has perfected their RS3 and TT RS over multiple generations now. And Mercedes is set to debut their second generation A45 next year. Sure, it would be great if these products were RWD instead, but at least they are options if you want a small 400hp high performance vehicle with some practicality. By contrast, BMW does not offer any such vehicle, won't offer them any time soon (if ever), and still has no plans whatsoever (and probably never will) to offer any RWD, I6 powered 1 Series or 2 Series products with four or more doors that one could at least hope would form the basis of an M derivative.

To wit, the upcoming F44 2 Series GC will launch in the US in 2019, and finally give us a four door BMW smaller than the 3 Series. But, it will be a UKL product and thus will not have an M counterpart. Meanwhile, the RS3 sedan is getting great reviews, and the A45 sedan will have launched by then too. BMW will try to convince you to buy an M235i with 300hp-ish hp instead of the competitors products, but who are they kidding?

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The thing is, at the same time, BMW either already has moved to or is moving to their UKL platform for most of their small cars. And, for the UKL platform, I6 engines are not an option since they would have to be mounted transversally whereas the platform is not designed to accommodate such a setup. This means that BMW's small sedan, hatchback, SUV, and Gran Coupe (and Gran Touring, if anyone cares about those) will be four-cylinder only. And thus, there will be no M versions of those products. Therefore, if you want a small high performance sedan, hatchback, or SUV you must only consider offerings from AMG (*45 models) and Audi Sport (RS models).

So this is a mixed bag. It's great if you want a small high performance coupe (or theoretically, convertible, if they were to build an M2 convertible). But if you want something more practical, BMW won't be able to help. Meanwhile, Audi has perfected their RS3 and TT RS over multiple generations now. And Mercedes is set to debut their second generation A45 next year. Sure, it would be great if these products were RWD instead, but at least they are options if you want a small 400hp high performance vehicle with some practicality. Meanwhile, BMW does not offer any such vehicle, won't offer them any time soon (if ever), and still has no plans whatsoever (and probably never will) to offer any RWD, I6 powered 1 Series or 2 Series products with four or more doors that one could at least hope would form the basis of an M derivative.

To wit, the upcoming F44 2 Series GC will launch in the US in 2019, and finally give us a four door BMW smaller than the 3 Series. But, it will be a UKL product and thus will not have an M counterpart. Meanwhile, the RS3 sedan is getting great reviews, and the A45 sedan will have launched by then too. BMW will try to convince you to buy an M235i with 300hp-ish hp instead of the competitors products, but who are they kidding?

Mercedes is going to kick their ass from everything I am seeing.

BMW might want to make a inline 5 or something.

The A45/GLA45 is a star performer.

[clbmw]

This is great news. If the 6 cyl disappear from everything but the M cars I guess I'll have to save more money up next time.

Having said that, and sadly being resigned to the UKL fate of the 1 series next time around, I'd be interested to see if BMW could make another 1M but in 4cyl Hatchback. It'll never happen, but one can hope. I doubt any future 1er will be as exciting as the current M140i

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Mercedes is going to kick their ass from everything I am seeing.

BMW might want to make a inline 5 or something.

The A45/GLA45 is a star performer.

It'd need developing from scratch and don't they need counter-balancing? Having said that the new B engines are modular design and the Audi engine sounds awesome so a 5cyl would sell. It's not impossible.

[ORIGIN M.]

They can put a balance-shaft in the oil pan, it is not the end of the world. Inline-5's are more compact and sound sick!

Originally Posted by clbmw

It'd need developing from scratch and don't they need counter-balancing? Having said that the new B engines are modular design and the Audi engine sounds awesome so a 5cyl would sell. It's not impossible.

[BALL3N]

My old Activehybrid3 with M Sport was fun as hell. It was no track car, but it was a beast off the line and dynoed at around 380 ft-lbs of torque at the crank (bone stock). I look forward to hybridized M cars in the future when it can be done right.

[ualdrivr]

Screw that

[kevinlevrone]

I find it disappointing that BMW M chief thinks along these lines. They should just use the best available technology, and that's it. If you can save weight with a 4-cylinder engine and add it back with a battery pack and a small electrical engine, while improving driveability, low-end torque but also emissions and mileage, then why not ?

But however, BMW recently did things that seemed impossible a few years ago: front-wheel drive cars, all-wheel-drive M cars, turbo engines on M cars...I am sure that what the guy said in this interview has no real importance on the real M future development. But it could delay true innovation at BMW M by some years, which is sad.

[kqian]

I know it is not possible, but here are what I want from BMW M: naturally aspirated, MT, hydraulic steering, light weight. While all other automakers are happy with turbos, Porsche is the only one who is keep developing NA engine, which could be stopped at anytime.

Maybe someday when light weight battery becomes available, hybrid M would be able to ditch the turbo charger and get the beautiful inline 6 sound back.

[Eddien123]

In my opinion inline 6s fit the 4 series and below. I do not think a hybrid turbo 6 in an m6 would be nice. Seems more cheap and budget cutting to me.

Hell if I had it my way the m5 would get a v10 and the m3 would get a v8 again

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by pheerlx

Let's hope the M models stay desirable but much like the current Boxster/Cayman I wouldn't be surprised if every other non-M model went turbo 4cyl.

There are a lot of non-M cars that are turbo THREE cylinders!

x18i(118i/218i/318i) models are powered by a turbo 3 cylinder 100 kW [136 PS] gas engine.

On the 116i it can be ordered with the lowest Hp engine, a turbo 3 cylinder 80 kW [109 PS].

And then lets not forget the i8... wonder what magic ///M will do with the i8S model that's forthcoming.

Dackel

[raysspl]

Well that's really good to know

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Then again, in the past they did say we would never see AWD or turbocharged M cars, so who knows.

I am not saying I am against going to a 4-cyl. in the future, but these predictions tend to fluctuate in reality depending on the market. It is at least good to know about the next gen.

Exactly!

[KSERGEI-BY]

What about X2M with the B48 ?

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by kqian

I know it is not possible, but here are what I want from BMW M: naturally aspirated, MT, hydraulic steering, light weight. While all other automakers are happy with turbos, Porsche is the only one who is keep developing NA engine, which could be stopped at anytime.

Maybe someday when light weight battery becomes available, hybrid M would be able to ditch the turbo charger and get the beautiful inline 6 sound back.

Agreed.

I feel they could make it work with a N/A hybrid version. Because it is usually not too hard to shed weight in the back of our cars. Many of us who have gutted, or removed things to make the car lighter, have learned that the rear has been made artificially heavy to keep the 50/50 balance. Why not use that "ballast" in form or a couple of hybrid motors to boost power and stick with an N/A engine. Now that would be the ticket.