[solstice]

The main reason people buy BMW and Mercedes cars is status. Here at bimmerpost it's just one parameter but in general it's THE parameter. In the U.S Tesla is already dominating sales in the 7 series class of cars.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by solstice

The main reason people buy BMW and Mercedes cars is status. Here at bimmerpost it's just one parameter but in general it's THE parameter. In the U.S Tesla is already dominating sales in the 7 series class of cars.

I'm laughing at the tesla dominating the 7 series. I see more Audi A8 than tesla. The one dominating there is the s class Mercedes, with plenty of others eat more popular than the tesla. Jaguar, Lexus, etc. Sales figures heard this out. Certain regions, i.e. the west coast have the bulk of the sales but most of the rest of the country they're rare but not quite unicorns.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I'm laughing at the tesla dominating the 7 series. I see more Audi A8 than tesla. The one dominating there is the s class Mercedes, with plenty of others eat more popular than the tesla. Jaguar, Lexus, etc. Sales figures heard this out. Certain regions, i.e. the west coast have the bulk of the sales but most of the rest of the country they're rare but not quite unicorns.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...ry-sedan-sales

[Fundguy1]

Wrong. Tesla has investors duped again. A new tesla s price and size are the same as a 5 series or e class, not 7 series or s class. They chose to compare to those because they want the ultra top end moniker but they aren't close in luxury, price, or size. It would be like bmw saying the 7 series is stealing the bentley customers. Look at the physical dimensions and sales tags and tell me I'm wrong. It's all just a good ad campaign but bs.

[Fundguy1]

2017 Tesla Model S/Dimensions
196″ L x 77″ W x 57″ H

2017 Mercedes-Benz S-Class/Dimensions
207″ L x 75″ W x 59″ H

2017 BMW 7 Series/Dimensions
207″ L x 75″ W x 58″ H

2017 Mercedes-Benz E-Class/Dimensions
194″ L x 74″ W x 58″ H

2017 BMW 5 Series/Dimensions
197″ L x 75″ W x 61″ H

Tesla S price
Starts at $69,200.00

S class price
Starts at $96k

BMW 750i
Starts at $96k

BMW 5 series price
Start with a 550xi to be fair, starts at $83k

MB e class 550 4matic
Starts at $61k

Tesla s class sales 14,770
E class 32,751
5 series 24,799

Questions?

[Fundguy1]

My theory behind bmws lackluster 7 series sales vs the s class is two reasons. 1. Boring styling. It's too drab. 2. No M7. BMW feels noone is going to track it or need extra power. Meanwhile S class AMG 63 driven by 50 yr old housewives are everywhere. It's never going to be used. It's bragging rights. And the big power ones out there attract buyers to the lower hp ones. This is why Ford makes Shelby mustangs, etc. Scrap the 760, give it to the M crew for tweaks and logos, body work, seats, etc, and watch it sell.

[solstice]

The Model S is eating the $100k luxury sedan lunch. My kids are attending different private schools and I can tell you that guiding of the cars at drop off and pick up, Model X is the sh*t right now. No more new RRs, Porsches etc.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by solstice

The Model S is eating the $100k luxury sedan lunch. My kids are attending different private schools and I can tell you that guiding of the cars at drop off and pick up, Model X is the sh*t right now. No more new RRs, Porsches etc.

Who's buying an X? It's like 12th on the recommended lists. One of the most undesirable and unusable SUVs made. Its a van really. You going to tow, go offroad, drive a few hours to the mountains to ski in it? No. I think I've seen 2 this year. Far less than for example Jaguar SUVs. About the same as Maserati SUVs. I don't see the 5/e cars being hammered by tesla s cars. We will see.

Oh and btw, it would compete with the ML or X5.

#66 on the list of SUVs sold. And oh look, only one without real numbers. They sold exactly 2,000. Btw, the corrected number for August was 25% less. Hmmm.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/09...sover.html?m=1

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Who's buying an X? It's like 12th on the recommended lists. One of the most undesirable and unusable SUVs made. Its a van really. You going to tow, go offroad, drive a few hours to the mountains to ski in it? No. I think I've seen 2 this year. Far less than for example Jaguar SUVs. About the same as Maserati SUVs. I don't see the 5/e cars being hammered by tesla s cars. We will see.

The people that tow and go off-road aren't typical BMW buyers. I agree on the Model X usability but still it's what I see the must status conscious buyers going for. Many of them likely drove 3 series before they got on the gravy train...

If BMWs were mainly bought by car guys/girls the threat would be very much less but that ain't the case. It's a status symbol for most.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by solstice

The people that tow and go off-road aren't typical BMW buyers. I agree on the Model X usability but still it's what I see the must status conscious buyers going for. Many of them likely drove 3 series before they got on the gravy train...

If BMWs were mainly bought by car guys/girls the threat would be very much less but that ain't the case. It's a status symbol for most.

I don't see a cheap iPad looking car as a status symbol. If i saw a jag, Porsche, RR, etc it would be way more status than that dysfunctional golf cart. I guess in California and Seattle people like it. But where else... If i won one as a prize I'd trade it for a Grand Cherokee Summit or a GLS 550 in a heartbeat. My neighborhood of 78 homes has multiple ferrari, gently, a rolls, every conceivable MB, porsche, BMW, not one tesla of any type. Same for neighboring neighborhoods too. I have literally seen more McLarens in Florida driving around 50k miles a year this year than tesla x.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by solstice

The people that tow and go off-road aren't typical BMW buyers. I agree on the Model X usability but still it's what I see the must status conscious buyers going for. Many of them likely drove 3 series before they got on the gravy train...

If BMWs were mainly bought by car guys/girls the threat would be very much less but that ain't the case. It's a status symbol for most.

And to be straight here, you're saying people buy this to show they can waste their money on it even though it has less capabilities than a Honda oddesy and its #66 in suv sales only that high because tesla put out fake sales figures and this makes it the new dominant player? It's outsold by BMW, MB, Lexus, Cadillac, Lincoln, and infiniti. Even Audi, Volvo, Land Rover, and Porsche are right there sales wise nationally. Take the west coast out of it and it exists as an obscure oddity.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

And to be straight here, you're saying people buy this to show they can waste their money on it even though it has less capabilities than a Honda oddesy and its #66 in suv sales only that high because tesla put out fake sales figures and this makes it the new dominant player? It's outsold by BMW, MB, Lexus, Cadillac, Lincoln, and infiniti. Even Audi, Volvo, Land Rover, and Porsche are right there sales wise nationally. Take the west coast out of it and it exists as an obscure oddity.

It's a $100k SUV and it's quite new to the market. It's ugly and has limited utility outside the city BUT it's a status symbol and this trickles down. But as you say we shall see about Model 3's disruptive force. I think it will be significant if they can keep the price point and production can keep up with demand. As I understand you don't think it will have much impact on the 3 series?

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by solstice

It's a $100k SUV and it's quite new to the market. It's ugly and has limited utility outside the city BUT it's a status symbol and this trickles down. But as you say we shall see about Model 3 disruptive force...

$100k ugly egg that is only good for driving around town. I think if people wanted a status symbol an f430 would be a better pic. See those all the time. Not tesla x here. Want an SUV stay symbol? MB GLS 63 or a G63 wagon. And they actually do stuff too. Lots of those everywhere. Got those in my neighborhood too. Mines an $81k GL 450. Same price as a base egg. No way I'd trade. And yes the x launches well, but on the highway its nothing. Same on trick pony as the S.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

$100k ugly egg that is only good for driving around town. I think if people wanted a status symbol an f430 would be a better pic. See those all the time. Not tesla x here. Want an SUV stay symbol? MB GLS 63 or a G63 wagon. And they actually do stuff too. Lots of those everywhere. Got those in my neighborhood too. Mines an $81k GL 450. Same price as a base egg. No way I'd trade.

You are only one guy and likely not representative of the trend sensitive crowd...what you and I think is irrelevant, we are car guys

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

I think the problem with the X is US customers rely on their people movers to provide utility, and for use on long trips. The X does neither as competently as the competition.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by solstice

You are only one guy and likely not representative of the trend sensitive crowd...what you and I think is irrelevant, we are car guys

Where are you located? I didn't see any really in the southeast. Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, or North Carolina. And I do go regularly to Miami, West Palm, Boca Raton, Naples. Dint see them there either. Plenty of exotics and British monsters. I'm guessing west coast. Only place money and misguided save the world from bs global warming collide.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I think the problem with the X is US customers rely on their people movers to provide utility, and for use on long trips. The X does neither as competently as the competition.

Exactly. It's really only good as a luxury soccer mom car in urban areas. Most people also don't view soccer mom cars as status symbols. Most soccer moms don't care how fast something accelerates. It really has severe problems fitting any kind of mass market.

Utility, no
Speed, but a s type or sports car
Range, no
Towing no
Large luxury, no

The only thing it has going for it is it shows you can spend a ton of money, and the false premise you are potentially helping the environment. Useless as a tit on a bull. Even Subaru outback outsells it. At least they drive well in snow.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Where are you located? I didn't see any really in the southeast. Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, or North Carolina. And I do go regularly to Miami, West Palm, Boca Raton, Naples. Dint see them there either. Plenty of exotics and British monsters. I'm guessing west coast. Only place money and misguided save the world from bs global warming collide.

Correct . Seattle.

But it's not just to show they can spend money, they actually love them and rave about how they will never go back to a non electric...you know the risk to get gasoline on their hands or inhale vapors and all of that...

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by solstice

Correct . Seattle.

But it's not just to show they can spend money, they actually love them and rave about how they will never go back to a non electric...you know the risk to get gasoline on their hands or inhale vapors and all of that...

Gotcha. West coast is almost a different country vs rest of it. Much greater push for environmental stuff, even if it's misguided. We still burn stuff in our yards and smoke in bars. I wouldn't doubt their commonly seen there. But definitely not over here. Bet you do see f150 and Camrys though. If and until tesla cracks the barrier of acceptance nationally they're just smoke and mirrors.

[pgviper]

Agreed that the Tesla Model S is equivalent to a 5 series / E Class. Just go to Amsterdam where EVERY cab/uber driver has a Tesla.

However, in my little bubble i'm seeing a lot more model X. Not nearly as many compared to RR but definitely not to little to ignore.

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by solstice

You are only one guy and likely not representative of the trend sensitive crowd...what you and I think is irrelevant, we are car guys

He's not the only guy!

[Fundguy1]

Lol. Guess if you're inside all the time because it's raining you have nothing to do but try to figure out how to be trendy and pc at the same time.