[RM7]

I know, don't let the door close behind me:

Probably going to order a Camaro 2SS 1LE later this week. Originally, the 1LE was only available with the 1SS and it had a much worse interior, no heated seats, no blind-spot detection (nice to have in that car), no sunroof option to make it seem more open inside, cheaper radio, and so on. The 1SS is definitely a monster, but the 2SS adds some creature comforts that are somewhat expected on cars these days.

Going to replace the BMW. Overall, it just never really lived up to what I wanted, especially in stock form. It wasn't that I was looking for a lot of power, if that was the case I wouldn't have gotten it, but I was expecting the suspension to be better, the steering, the brakes, and so on. Miles are low and it's in immaculate condition, so I can probably get some decent money for it. Mainly, it's just not the "ultimate driving machine" or exciting to drive. I want that back and I want to be able to row through the gears, which is exactly what the 2SS 1LE will be. Since I owned the previous generation 2SS, I'm fairly familiar with how it is. The performance on that with just a couple suspension mods was such that I simply didn't care what anyone else was driving. Fun to unleash from time to time, but creates more of feeling that I don't need to do that too.

I've spent some time in GT350s and others in the last few weeks, just getting a feel for things. I don't think anything comes close to the 1LE package for outright fun, and I have a 2nd more practical SUV for everything else.

[baege]

so laggy gm throttle response is not an issue for you?

i found that issue in my c7 diminished rhr fun factor significantly

[RM7]

Originally Posted by baege

so laggy gm throttle response is not an issue for you?

i found that issue in my c7 diminished rhr fun factor significantly

Speaking from my LS3, I don't know if it's so much that it's overly-laggy or that it really comes alive above 4K or so, the torque is very flat, for a NA engine, it doesn't seem to rev fast, until you get it in that zone, IME. So it may be that you can cruise in such a ridiculously low gear that there's no way it's going to rev fast, even though it'll still pull. It would happily ride around 1000 rpm without lugging, but hitting the gas only slowly brings it up and if you want to go fast in a hurry, you're going to need skip some gears. I came from a manual turbo 4 to the LS3, which revved much faster, so I know what you mean. It's also known that the gears are fairly wide apart, that's got its advantages and disadvantages. Still, this didn't seem to be a concern when I drove it, different, but one of those things I have to question whether or not it makes any real difference, vs. the perception that it does.

We see something similar I think with people complaining about the BMW 2.0 and 3.0 turbo engines as having noticeable and bad "turbo-lag". Due to the torque curves and full torque at ridiculously low RPMs (for turbo engines), there's simply no way it's "turbo-lag". It's a combination of the throttle response and simply driving in too high of a gear or the transmission having to shift a couple gears to get you well into the power range. It's not going to accelerate terribly fast from 1300rpm, but you sure aren't making a lot of power at that RPM, so it's not going to go like it got kicked in the rear end either. It's quite different than my old car though where if you were below the 2.8K or so line, there were situations where it would NOT climb into the turbo range when you pushed the pedal down, it would bog down and you had no choice but to shift.

So no, it doesn't bother me, perhaps this is tweaked with these cars, but I also wouldn't want it overly twitchy/sensitive too, which would break the wheels loose easier on contaminated surfaces. We'll see.

[Foggins]

Good luck, that sounds like a great car...I too made the switch a few years ago to American muscle but I am now very close to being back in an M. I really misssed it

[baege]

sounds like you have thought it out and it wont be an issue
i am annoyingly particular about instant response...not everyone has my issue

[No Boost]

From an enthusiast's standpoint, there are certainly better BMW options than the 428xi GC. So, I can understand you wanting to jump ship. That model car is saturating the roads which I drive. It's a typical BMW cheap lease that has a pretty exterior design. It's no driving machine, let alone an ultimate one.

[FriskyDingo]

Smart choice.

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I know, don't let the door close behind me:

Probably going to order a Camaro 2SS 1LE later this week. Originally, the 1LE was only available with the 1SS and it had a much worse interior, no heated seats, no blind-spot detection (nice to have in that car), no sunroof option to make it seem more open inside, cheaper radio, and so on. The 1SS is definitely a monster, but the 2SS adds some creature comforts that are somewhat expected on cars these days.

Going to replace the BMW. Overall, it just never really lived up to what I wanted, especially in stock form. It wasn't that I was looking for a lot of power, if that was the case I wouldn't have gotten it, but I was expecting the suspension to be better, the steering, the brakes, and so on. Miles are low and it's in immaculate condition, so I can probably get some decent money for it. Mainly, it's just not the "ultimate driving machine" or exciting to drive. I want that back and I want to be able to row through the gears, which is exactly what the 2SS 1LE will be. Since I owned the previous generation 2SS, I'm fairly familiar with how it is. The performance on that with just a couple suspension mods was such that I simply didn't care what anyone else was driving. Fun to unleash from time to time, but creates more of feeling that I don't need to do that too.

I've spent some time in GT350s and others in the last few weeks, just getting a feel for things. I don't think anything comes close to the 1LE package for outright fun, and I have a 2nd more practical SUV for everything else.

Enjoy! GM is building some fun good cars these days. I never thought I would say that, and I never thought I would get a Camaro, but I have been loving my ZL1

[HawkeyeGeoff]

It is a very, very hard car to beat for the money. It is, for the first time, a true proper sports car. Good choice!!

[aaaaah]

I was seriously eyeing off a Camaro before getting the 235 but I just couldn't get over the size and lack of visibility.

My biggest issue is that almost no one makes a small, RWD, manual sports car with decent power from the factory. The BRZ is fun but felt only a little faster than my old E30 and the engine sounded terrible. Noise is a big part of the sports car experience.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by aaaaah

I was seriously eyeing off a Camaro before getting the 235 but I just couldn't get over the size and lack of visibility.

My biggest issue is that almost no one makes a small, RWD, manual sports car with decent power from the factory. The BRZ is fun but felt only a little faster than my old E30 and the engine sounded terrible. Noise is a big part of the sports car experience.

It's deceivingly "not as big" as the last generation, but even that has good and bad, it's a little tighter inside, not quite as wide as the last gen. You get used to the driving position and view, but I think a sunroof is critical for any extended driving or non-track work, it really "opens up" the car and offsets the "driving in a coffin" feel. The high sills are kind of cool and I like the fact that it's hard for everyone to peer into your car while you are driving, but I'd be lying if I was claiming the side visibility is good. While you adapt, that doesn't mean it's a "non-issue". I'm fairly educated in ergonomics and human factors. Interestingly though, the rear view is almost exactly the same as my 428GC. That rear window is very small and the radical slope just doesn't allow for anything more, so it's literally the exact same picture. For the side, it's critical to adjust your mirrors correctly. In many other cars you can get away without doing it, turn your head like an ostrich to peer through the windows, but in this you don't see anything when you do the same, so you gotta do it, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't still have a couple close calls (but it now comes with blind spot alert on the 2SS), no more than any other car, just that it seems more surprising.

I looked semi-seriously at the M2. I could swing it, but looking at what you get for the $, it was hard to justify and our dealers up here have somehow made them well over 70K, so the value is pretty poor. The bigger issue is I just am not convinced the M2 would have the raw connection that I want.

[Vectors2final]

With the mirrors setup properly, I could literally watch someone drive into my blind spot until they were next to me in my Camaro. The only time it was ever an issue is on weird slanted cross roads.

People have this issue where they want to point their side mirrors at the side of their car, and not out into their blind spot.

PFA

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Vectors2final

With the mirrors setup properly, I could literally watch someone drive into my blind spot until they were next to me in my Camaro. The only time it was ever an issue is on weird slanted cross roads.

People have this issue where they want to point their side mirrors at the side of their car, and not out into their blind spot.

PFA

I sat in a bunch of G6 camaros over the last few weeks. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM had the mirrors adjusted to stupid.

I did this test with my dad. Had him sit in the car. Started standing behind him in the rear view mirror, then walked to the side and had him tell me when he couldn't see me. Then I had him adjust the mirrors until he could, then got the seemless rear-view to side-mirror transition for him setup. Made the point though that "you can't see me because you don't have your SIDE mirrors adjusted to be SIDE mirrors". He was receptive and I really want him to be safe as he keeps driving.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Vectors2final

With the mirrors setup properly, I could literally watch someone drive into my blind spot until they were next to me in my Camaro. The only time it was ever an issue is on weird slanted cross roads.

People have this issue where they want to point their side mirrors at the side of their car, and not out into their blind spot.

PFA

One thing they never teach in teen driving school is correct mirror placement via proper adjustment procedures AND situational awareness. Properly designed mirrors should eliminate most all but a very small blind spot and that blind spot should be inconsequential if you begin to make a lane move. My E30 had wonderful mirrors, nice and big and fully adjustable to eliminate blind spots. They were good enough to make a 2-lane move with high confidence (the huge rear window helped too I need to honestly say). When I moved to my E90 I have to say I was disappointed with the side mirror design. IMO they do not adjust outward far enough (mine are set to max outward adjustment and are barely adequate). Blind spot alert would drive me crazy.

But if you want to drive a car with difficult visibility, try a BMW E86 Z4 Coupe. I have one, and can easily drive it aggressively in heavy, but moving traffic. It took some time to get used to and it's the polar opposite of the E30. With the Camaro, one advantage to blind spot monitoring is the right pedal...

[Mr Carrots]

I've considered a 2ss myself, but it would have to be a zl1 to be worth swapping my 240i on.

Apparently the b58 is close to being cracked so I'm going to keep my car but if I had a 428i then it would be a no brainer to trade in, those are BMW in name only

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

I've considered a 2ss myself, but it would have to be a zl1 to be worth swapping my 240i on.

Apparently the b58 is close to being cracked so I'm going to keep my car but if I had a 428i then it would be a no brainer to trade in, those are BMW in name only

The suspension on mine is pretty good, but I don't want to commit to something like a M2 or M3/4 for the long run, I just don't think it'll be engaging enough, even with the manual. I can't justify the ZL1, all that power would just be sitting there and never used, at least with the LT1 I can push it at times and still go pretty darn fast. The torque down low is amazing too. The 1LE package definitely does it for me though, the FE4, mag ride, ZL1 electronic diff and other goodies take it to the level where I can't imagine I'll be disappointed. I'm kind of looking forward to getting "re-engaged", in terms of shifting and working the clutch.

In any case, I put the deposit down on a 2SS 1LE with sunroof, strut brace, blackout emblems, and all weather mats. Don't need a lot of options with the 2SS because it comes with most everything you'd want. My last 2SS (which had suspension upgrades) was just a hoot to drive. That's what I'm looking forward to again.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

One thing they never teach in teen driving school is correct mirror placement via proper adjustment procedures AND situational awareness. Properly designed mirrors should eliminate most all but a very small blind spot and that blind spot should be inconsequential if you begin to make a lane move ...

Amen. However, a huge, HUGE part of the problem is that many manufacturers design the side mirror adjustability range to baaaaarely (if at all) get into the proper position to cover the blind spot.

On the last three cars I've owned (Lexus, BMW, Porsche), the RH mirror in particular had/has to be maxed to the right to be in proper position -- and in the BMW, I had to play with it until JUST before the motor slipped the mirror back to the left a bit as the cog (a rubber belt, I assume) slipped inside the mechanism.

Why carmakers do this, I'll never understand -- unless it's an accepted manufacturing practice so that it encourages manual blind spot checks de facto. I tend to do both (mirror check and manual check), but if I have to make an evasive maneuver, I want my side mirrors to show me what is in those spots at a glance so I'm not, say, about to mow over an Ultra Glide, you know?

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

In any case, I put the deposit down on a 2SS 1LE with sunroof, strut brace, blackout emblems, and all weather mats. Don't need a lot of options with the 2SS because it comes with most everything you'd want. My last 2SS (which had suspension upgrades) was just a hoot to drive. That's what I'm looking forward to again.

Nice, the 6th Gen in impressive.

[86merc]

Did you test drive a 6th gen 1LE car? I know two people who bought them and ended up trading them in. The 1LE has a very stiff suspension. Even when in the softest settings. On our rough Illinois roads, they were not happy driving the car at all. But the one guy did some testing at the track and the 1LE is definitely worth the money if you plan to track the car a lot.

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by 86merc

Did you test drive a 6th gen 1LE car? I know two people who bought them and ended up trading them in. The 1LE has a very stiff suspension. Even when in the softest settings. On our rough Illinois roads, they were not happy driving the car at all. But the one guy did some testing at the track and the 1LE is definitely worth the money if you plan to track the car a lot.

If I'm not mistaken the 1LE and ZL1 (Non-1LE ZL1), have similar suspension settings. I have no complaint about the ride quality of the ZL1, its firm as it should be, but not harsh at all.

[kprocivic]

Congrats to you. Had my wallet set on a 1le 1ss last year then my wallet laughed and emptied itself at the casino.

[86merc]

Originally Posted by KenB925

If I'm not mistaken the 1LE and ZL1 (Non-1LE ZL1), have similar suspension settings. I have no complaint about the ride quality of the ZL1, its firm as it should be, but not harsh at all.

I do not know about that being true or not. But even some of the professional reviews on both 1LE cars say the same thing about the harsh ride on poor roads.

You live in Cali, your roads are beautiful compared to Chicagoland roads here. If I had these smooth roads I wouldn't complain about suspensions either