[nakamuru]

I don't speed but those times where car has to merge from street light , it is kind of fun and exciting per say. I drive a regular x3 that has like 248 hp and goes around 6 seconds 0-60 which is pretty slow but for me it's fast lol During these situtions, I'll glance if it something i can beat when merging and other times I realize I don't budge if its like some tesla etc (which they don't drive fast anyways). Anyways my question is the 0-60 seconds usually determine which is faster (seems automatic cars not much input is needed for shifting gears etc as in manual).

Other question is , I was about to get the acura mdx and that has 295 hp but 0-60 in 6.3 . I'm sure it weight little more then the x3 but not sure why it's so called tad bit slower? is this where german engineering takes over?

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by nakamuru

I don't speed but those times where car has to merge from street light , it is kind of fun and exciting per say. I drive a regular x3 that has like 248 hp and goes around 6 seconds 0-60 which is pretty slow but for me it's fast lol During these situtions, I'll glance if it something i can beat when merging and other times I realize I don't budge if its like some tesla etc (which they don't drive fast anyways). Anyways my question is the 0-60 seconds usually determine which is faster (seems automatic cars not much input is needed for shifting gears etc as in manual).

Other question is , I was about to get the acura mdx and that has 295 hp but 0-60 in 6.3 . I'm sure it weight little more then the x3 but not sure why it's so called tad bit slower? is this where german engineering takes over?

First, BMW sandbags its HP ratings. Recent tests have shown that BMW is delivering roughly at the wheel what it claims at the crank. So you are probably more like 300 HP at the wheels whereas the Acura is losing HP at the wheels.

I am usually first away from a light and never have to depress my accelerator very far. I personally think 0-60 is a bad car measure. Anyone can pour a lot of HP into a car and claim a fast 0-60 rating. But it is more important how it handles, etc.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by nakamuru

Anyways my question is the 0-60 seconds usually determine which is faster (seems automatic cars not much input is needed for shifting gears etc as in manual).

It determines which is faster from 0-60

Originally Posted by nakamuru

Other question is , I was about to get the acura mdx and that has 295 hp but 0-60 in 6.3 . I'm sure it weight little more then the x3 but not sure why it's so called tad bit slower? is this where german engineering takes over?

No
Torque, gearing, shift times, drivetrain, tires, etc. all play a part

[ferizzo]

a lot of factors will go into the 0-60 and depends on what you mean by faster. I think 0-60 is a decent indicator but more knowledgeable members will chime in. The metrics I hear a lot of are 0-60 and 60-130 for mph and then for distance 1/4 mile and 60' times.

They are all correlated to an extent. I think 60 ft times might be a better indicator for you since you are wondering from a stoplight who might win on a merge...haha. This depends on your launching, traction and power. if you are talking on the highway and coming up on a merge then 60-130mph might be more important.

[nakamuru]

Originally Posted by ferizzo

a lot of factors will go into the 0-60 and depends on what you mean by faster. I think 0-60 is a decent indicator but more knowledgeable members will chime in. The metrics I hear a lot of are 0-60 and 60-130 for mph and then for distance 1/4 mile and 60' times.

They are all correlated to an extent. I think 60 ft times might be a better indicator for you since you are wondering from a stoplight who might win on a merge...haha. This depends on your launching, traction and power. if you are talking on the highway and coming up on a merge then 60-130mph might be more important.

Yes no way I wanna drive past like 80mph usually drives so much quieter then my Mazda 3 I forget I'm driving fast but the handling in suv is not hatchback for example so it gets very sensitive since moving a larger vehicle.

But yes I wouldn't do any pedal to metal doing turns on this car and just merging or maybe needed lane change. Other then that my driving record is clean so I must keep it that way lol

[nakamuru]

Originally Posted by super51fan

It determines which is faster from 0-60

No
Torque, gearing, shift times, drivetrain, tires, etc. all play a part

So putting the car in drive plus mode where it doesn't automatically shift, more you rev to higher rpm is when you shift usually like near readline. Or user input is what differentiates this where rpm isn't much factor but more of a feel and that boost your getting. Either way sometimes losing to like Dodge Ram to the light I must be doing something wrong Haha

My home is rear this merge traffic light and usually have lot of times to have some fun lol (no intersections after traffic light either

[nakamuru]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

First, BMW sandbags its HP ratings. Recent tests have shown that BMW is delivering roughly at the wheel what it claims at the crank. So you are probably more like 300 HP at the wheels whereas the Acura is losing HP at the wheels.

I am usually first away from a light and never have to depress my accelerator very far. I personally think 0-60 is a bad car measure. Anyone can pour a lot of HP into a car and claim a fast 0-60 rating. But it is more important how it handles, etc.

Hmm I don't believe this seems to be true why would they do that? If they say like 300 oppose to 248 wouldn't they sell more cars.

[ferizzo]

I like taking off hard from a stoplight and then merging on highways. I really don't drive fast any more (especially as I've gotten older) but do still enjoy the thrill of accelerating hard on occasion. Guess this is why I rolled the dice and got a 550 instead of the more reliable and fuel efficient 535 (and got the BMS stage 1).

Originally Posted by nakamuru

Yes no way I wanna drive past like 80mph usually drives so much quieter then my Mazda 3 I forget I'm driving fast but the handling in suv is not hatchback for example so it gets very sensitive since moving a larger vehicle.

But yes I wouldn't do any pedal to metal doing turns on this car and just merging or maybe needed lane change. Other then that my driving record is clean so I must keep it that way lol

[ferizzo]

Not sure why they do it, but it is pretty well known. Even the 550 I have is supposed to have 480 ft/lb torque at the crank but several folks have seen 450ish at the wheels. Then I think the new Z4 dynoed higher than what was advertised by BMW.

Originally Posted by nakamuru

Hmm I don't believe this seems to be true why would they do that? If they say like 300 oppose to 248 wouldn't they sell more cars.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by ferizzo

Not sure why they do it, but it is pretty well known. Even the 550 I have is supposed to have 480 ft/lb torque at the crank but several folks have seen 450ish at the wheels. Then I think the new Z4 dynoed higher than what was advertised by BMW.

https://www.motor1.com/news/349369/b...n-dyno-tested/

https://carbuzz.com/news/the-toyota-...habit-from-bmw

https://www.***********.com/content....M5-and-E70-X5M

Etc. Etc.

[billnchristy]

I do know that nobody programs transmissions like BMW (in the "normal" car world). Be it ZF or Aisin, the job they do is incredible. A RAV4 has an Aisin 8 speed and 200hp and it can't get out of its own way and Toyota programmed it like a diesel to keep mpg up so it is a struggle to rev out past 2k unless you floor it but my X2 can drop the hammer pretty hard.

That plays a big part.

I do think on the street that rolling acceleration is more important than 0-60 and again, the transmission programming plays heavily there.

[nakamuru]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

https://www.motor1.com/news/349369/b...n-dyno-tested/

https://carbuzz.com/news/the-toyota-...habit-from-bmw

https://www.***********.com/content....M5-and-E70-X5M

Etc. Etc.

Is that for all bmw or just m versions

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

First, BMW sandbags its HP ratings. Recent tests have shown that BMW is delivering roughly at the wheel what it claims at the crank. So you are probably more like 300 HP at the wheels whereas the Acura is losing HP at the wheels.

I am usually first away from a light and never have to depress my accelerator very far. I personally think 0-60 is a bad car measure. Anyone can pour a lot of HP into a car and claim a fast 0-60 rating. But it is more important how it handles, etc.

They don't sandbag, its the minimum HP the car will make under any harsh scenario, like bad gas, heat, etc.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by b4hand

They don't sandbag, its the minimum HP the car will make under any harsh scenario, like bad gas, heat, etc.

It's not the minimum HP. Lots of bmw manuals say that in order to be sure to obtain the advertized amount of HP, you need a certain standard of gas (usually 93 aki/98ron).

Usually the used dyno in those tests make bigger differences, just for laughs and giggles google results on same cars in same conditions between for instance dynojet (the tuners dyno, gives extremely high HP's) compared to say a mustang dyno. That difference alone is easily 10-20%

[The Wind Breezes]

If you want fast for cheap get a motorcycle. Even my slow electric bike absolutely smokes my tuned 135i from 0-60. And you never have to wait behind traffic.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by super51fan

It determines which is faster from 0-60



No
Torque, gearing, shift times, drivetrain, tires, etc. all play a part

A lot of lower HP cars can be set up to get a quick 0-60 and then fall on their faces after that and end up having very little top end. It works for the red light rally I guess but would be annoying anywhere else.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by nakamuru

I don't speed but those times where car has to merge from street light , it is kind of fun and exciting per say. I drive a regular x3 that has like 248 hp and goes around 6 seconds 0-60 which is pretty slow but for me it's fast lol During these situtions, I'll glance if it something i can beat when merging and other times I realize I don't budge if its like some tesla etc (which they don't drive fast anyways). Anyways my question is the 0-60 seconds usually determine which is faster (seems automatic cars not much input is needed for shifting gears etc as in manual).

Other question is , I was about to get the acura mdx and that has 295 hp but 0-60 in 6.3 . I'm sure it weight little more then the x3 but not sure why it's so called tad bit slower? is this where german engineering takes over?

Not always, things like AWD turbo cars can really make the 0-60 figures deceiving, in terms of 5K clutch drops and holding the brake while giving gas before "launch". These cars can turn real good 0-60 and then fall on their face, not to mention the wear and tear that this usually causes. Rolling 5-60 times are usually a much better indicator. Passing numbers are also a good indicator.

But, many modern turbo cars do have a rich flat torque curve down around 1500-1700rpm to max rpm, which is fairly unprecedented before the 2000s. Area below the (torque) curve is what makes a car accelerate fast.

BMW doesn't "sandbag" hp/tq really, they simply tell you what the hp/tq is at the wheels and don't make a big deal about informing you that it's "at the wheels". It's brilliant from one aspect, because in comparisons they get put up against cars that have the "same" horsepower and always come on top for acceleration.

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Not always, things like AWD turbo cars can really make the 0-60 figures deceiving, in terms of 5K clutch drops and holding the brake while giving gas before "launch". These cars can turn real good 0-60 and then fall on their face, not to mention the wear and tear that this usually causes. Rolling 5-60 times are usually a much better indicator. Passing numbers are also a good indicator.

But, many modern turbo cars do have a rich flat torque curve down around 1500-1700rpm to max rpm, which is fairly unprecedented before the 2000s. Area below the (torque) curve is what makes a car accelerate fast.

BMW doesn't "sandbag" hp/tq really, they simply tell you what the hp/tq is at the wheels and don't make a big deal about informing you that it's "at the wheels". It's brilliant from one aspect, because in comparisons they get put up against cars that have the "same" horsepower and always come on top for acceleration.

BMW HP is at the crank, not the wheels.

[yco]

wheel drive, transmission, power to weight determines the 0-100kmh times.. to understand the overall picture better, 0-200kmh is the one i look especially..

all the power figures from factory shows the power on crank.. according to wheel drive and transmission this number is lower on the wheels.. unless its written like whp.. only sandbagging that BMW made in recent years was new M5 comp.. the rest just -/+ numbers on crank.. generally VW sandbags the power figures..

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by yco

wheel drive, transmission, power to weight determines the 0-100kmh times.. to understand the overall picture better, 0-200kmh is the one i look especially..

all the power figures from factory shows the power on crank.. according to wheel drive and transmission this number is lower on the wheels.. unless its written like whp.. only sandbagging that BMW made in recent years was new M5 comp.. the rest just -/+ numbers on crank.. generally VW sandbags the power figures..

Spot on sir thank you.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

this is not the platform for winning stoplight races

[ferizzo]

Found this entertaining and relevant to this thread given how surprised the C&D folks were at the dyno results of the M5:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/rese...ted/ar-AAFk9A9