[tetsuo111]

BMW lost me. I'm fatigued of hoping for signs of a pulse in Munich. Like another poster opined, "follow the money". I've concluded, based upon the company's allocation of capital and resources, that BMW is committed to out Prius-ing Toyota, and simultaneously resenting the values "M" used to symbolize.


The New Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Could Be the Only V-8 Manual Sedan on the Market
The CT4-V will also ride with a stick.

The 2020 Cadillac CT5-V Is a Proper Sport Sedan

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

BMW lost me. I'm fatigued of hoping for signs of a pulse in Munich. Like another poster opined, "follow the money". I've concluded, based upon the company's allocation of capital and resources, that BMW is committed to out Prius-ing Toyota, and simultaneously resenting the values "M" used to symbolize.


The New Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Could Be the Only V-8 Manual Sedan on the Market
The CT4-V will also ride with a stick.

The 2020 Cadillac CT5-V Is a Proper Sport Sedan

I got super excited when I saw the leak a bit over a month ago. The LT2 engine is fantastic, and I'm hoping to see the CT4-Blackwing will hopefully get a new motor, although the old 3.6TT wasn't bad, just not my favorite, however the chassis, steering, seats and magneride suspension on the last ATS-V and CTS-V were great, honestly better driver's cars than the M3/5, the interiors and quality were their biggest problem.

The new ones may not still be on the level of the Germans, but the god awful CUE is gone, in favor of an easy touch or knob controlled screen, and materials look to be improved. And the prices don't seem too bad, $55k for the CT4 and $85K for the CT5, definitely undercuts the Germans significantly. I'm definitely gonna check one out, there'll only be three choices left for a high-performance four door with a stick now, the Cadi's and the Bimmer.

[heavyD^2]

The Blackwings are going to be great even if they confusingly don't have Blackwing engines. Unfortunately as with the CTS-V and ATS-V nobody will buy them. Cadillac has been building the cars that many in this thread lament BMW for no longer building and the reality is that nobody bought them. People saying BMW is following the money are absolutely correct because if they don't they would be teetering on the edge of relevance in the market like Cadillac. BMW's direct competition has always been Audi and MB. Not sure why so many here seem to make the incorrect conclusion that emulating Porsche would be good for the bottom line of the company.

[tim99ws6]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

The Blackwings are going to be great even if they confusingly don't have Blackwing engines. Unfortunately as with the CTS-V and ATS-V nobody will buy them. Cadillac has been building the cars that many in this thread lament BMW for no longer building and the reality is that nobody bought them. People saying BMW is following the money are absolutely correct because if they don't they would be teetering on the edge of relevance in the market like Cadillac. BMW's direct competition has always been Audi and MB. Not sure why so many here seem to make the incorrect conclusion that emulating Porsche would be good for the bottom line of the company.

Yep, its the market that dictates what BMW has to do. Cadillac is nothing more than an offshoot of the exact cars we despise within the BMW lineup(think what you see being pumped out of GM). This IS their M-line(luxury, performance, masterful tech, materials, bla bla bla).

It'll DEFINITELY be a car I will go test drive and think seriously about in about 2 years when it's time to move on from My F10-M5-CP

[Conissah]

2 things.

Cadillac is still perceived as another "old person's car." Same with Volvo. They both make awesome vehicles, but MOST younger people aren't interested in them. Can they shake enough of this stigma to get people other than the target Corvette demographic to buy them?

It seems like they're starting to already try and get this things name out there, unlike the SS, which we all know didn't sell well. There was 0 advertising for it, and most people didn't know it existed. If they had actually talked about the car and advertised it, it probably would have done well. I've been in 1 on track with a pro driver, and my God, for a 4 door automatic sedan, that thing would absolutely MOVE. If they can keep getting this things name out there, build some hype around it, it may sell really really well.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

The Blackwings are going to be great even if they confusingly don't have Blackwing engines. Unfortunately as with the CTS-V and ATS-V nobody will buy them.

My prediction is that it will be even worse this time because both of these ultra high performance sedan segments have now moved on to AWD. The smaller/cheaper of the two has just started the evolution, but it is nevertheless obvious where the market is headed.

Yes, there is still a small demand for premium RWD/MT performance sedans, and BMW recognizes this market. That is why they will offer an entry level M3 with that setup. But they will sell ten AWD/AT models for every one of those entry level models. It is that entry model M3 that the CT4, with its RWD-only setup, will compete with. And they will, in turn, struggle to match half of BMW's sales in that now-tiny sliver of this segment's overall volume.

[bvrider1]

I must be the odd ball guy to want a V8 AWD sedan in a stick?

[bvrider1]

Yes I am old. My son is bugging me to drive the M3.

Originally Posted by bvrider1

I must be the odd ball guy to want a V8 AWD sedan in a stick?

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by bvrider1

I must be the odd ball guy to want a V8 AWD sedan in a stick?

I totally understand. The last CTS-V - to which this CT5-Blackwing will be based on - had over 600hp and while with the modern horsepower wars this seeming pretty cool, if you aren't on a dry strip, it will definitely be hard to put the power down properly compared to its rivals (other than the GS-F). As much as I love a V8, I think the CT4-Blackwing will be the sweet spot. If it will be the rumored $55k, it will be priced just right, 400+ Horsepower from a TTV6 should be just enough power for fun but also enough control, and it will have a shorter wheelbase, improved interior, and the great alpha chassis.

[N54Yankee]

I’m done with BMW also. The 135 was my first and will be my last although it still serves me well. In a couple years Cadillac performance model will likely be my next daily. My buddy has the CTS-V and it checks all my boxes and my wife had the ATS and it was also very nice.

[Germanauto]

I shit on Cadillac a lot since it has typical GM lackluster attention to detail when it comes to interior, materials, build quality, residuals, etc. Their decision to go sporty makes no sense and has not worked out for sales. The CT4/CT5 will suffer the same fate as the ATS and CTS.

With that being said, I have to give credit where credit is due. Their sedans are more engaging to drive than anything BMW has produced since the F10/F30 models. The ATS makes me not dread electric steering. That car felt composed and glued to the road. I'm sure these new models will be impressive too.

[Tambohamilton]

I certainly won't be buying a newer BMW than my 2007. They're not focused on being driver's cars any more. They're following the money, which is comfort, image, interior, and insulation. That's fine, but it's not for me!

There are a few great looking (features and appearance) cars coming out of the US nowadays - I'm envious!

[dreamingat30fps]

I like the newer Cadillacs a lot. One thing I honestly hated soooo much up until recently was the gauge cluster on the trims that didn't have the full LCD cluster. The newer ones have fixed that though.

We had a 2014 (I think) XTS Platinum that I got CPO. I loved that car! While it was at the dealer a LOT (cosmetic stuff) it's probably one of my favorite cars I've owned. The thing was massive, however the magnetic shocks or something made the ride amazing. Did not feel like the land yacht it was at all. I also felt the interior quality was fantastic. Waaaaay better than any BMW of that same time. It even had a full LCD gauge cluster before everyone started doing it.

If money were no concern I would totally have a top of the line CTS-V manual!

[turboawd]

I just feel like Cadillacs have no soul. No prestige.
They'll depreciate horribly and dealing with GM dealers and service is awful.

[RM7]

This *should* be the car that everyone constantly says they will buy, but they won't, because their wife or girlfriend can't drive a stick.

[quick6]

Never seen an all-round package from Cadillac that could compete with BMW M including looks, performance, interior and after the sale warranty and service.
You may see a few of these cars on the road, but not many because not many will want them.
This has been tried before by Cadillac but its not their wheelhouse.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by turboawd

I just feel like Cadillacs have no soul. No prestige.
They'll depreciate horribly and dealing with GM dealers and service is awful.

Honestly I think the Cadillac's have way more soul than most modern M cars. Drive the CTS-V and M5 back to back and the M5 is as numb as possible and the CTS-V is so much fun and engaging and sounds fantastic with the LT2 engine. Also most Cadillac dealers are much nicer than regular Chevy dealers. My local Cadillac dealer is known for very good service and treatment of customers. Not like BMW's don't depreciate either and don't have some bad dealers as well.

[Mb73288]

The new ct5-v is not on the same level as a m340i . Especially when it comes to driving dynamics and acceleration. It's a good looking car but once you drive one you will see what I mean. Plus the interior has a bunch of cheap GM parts evwrywhere

[Mb73288]

Maybe the blackwing will be better

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by turboawd

I just feel like Cadillacs have no soul. No prestige.
They'll depreciate horribly and dealing with GM dealers and service is awful.

Soul and prestige don't so anything for me personally. It's a car. I also try to never buy new, especially luxury cars so the depreciation doesn't really come into play in my buying decision.

As for dealers, chevy dealers suck pretty bad, at least the ones around me. On the other hand the Cadillac dealer near me where we use to take the XTS was fantastic. Probably one of the best dealer experiences I've had. Unfortunately the BMW dealer here is the completely opposite. Worst dealer I have ever had to deal with, they even crashed my 335, I would rather go to the Chevy dealer than the local BMW dealer.

[HolyBull]

I'm hearing lots of Cadillac owners in Socal are going over to Genesis. I guess we'll know for sure in a few years if we see lots of pre owned Genesis with 24 inch wheels in South LA.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Mb73288

The new ct5-v is not on the same level as a m340i . Especially when it comes to driving dynamics and acceleration.

Haven't driven one yet, obviously due to you know what, but I actually am really curious to test one, every magazine/review said it drove better than all the Germans so I'm very interested. Apparently the CT5-V drives a lot different than the regular 2.0T model, and of course the Blackwing model will take it even higher.