[H2O_Doc]

Humans have a long evolutionary history and this history has shaped our behaviors with some behaviors being largely hardwired and some being (to varying degrees) influenced by situations and contexts.

These behaviors were shaped over millions of years in a context where our survival depended on our abilities to predict and react to very different threats than exist today. We also likely had a different social structure with different in-group and out-group relationships. Psychology, sociality, aggression, dominance, thrill-seeking, compassion etc. are influenced by our evolutionary history, but that at times might be mismatched to our current modern lives.

I'm interested in how our attitudes towards our cars and our driving behaviors are influenced (note I didn't say dictated) by some of this baggage. Our genus is a couple of millions of years old, but many of us haven't been driving for more than a couple of decades.

Anyone find evolution baggage in our attitudes towards our cars and our behavior behind the wheel?

Speculation and examples welcomed.

[F32Fleet]

Seems rather obvious or not that like a peacock showing his feathers in order to attract a mate, male humans do the same signalling by their choice of car. Expensive vehicles is one way of signaling that "I have sufficient resources to support a family". That's evolution.

Both sexes conduct signalling. For women makeup and lipstick as example

[H2O_Doc]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Seems rather obvious or not that like a peacock showing his feathers in order to attract a mate, male humans do the same signalling by their choice of car. Expensive vehicles is one way of signaling that "I have sufficient resources to support a family". That's evolution.

Both sexes conduct signalling. For women makeup and lipstick

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Seems rather obvious or not that like a peacock showing his feathers in order to attract a mate, male humans do the same signalling by their choice of car. Expensive vehicles is one way of signaling that "I have sufficient resources to support a family". That's evolution.

Both sexes conduct signalling. For women makeup and lipstick

Yep. The idea of "conspicuous consumption." What's interesting is the stories our minds wrap around it. Did I buy my Rolex to tell time? Did I really pick the Rolex over the Seiko because I appreciate fine craftsmanship or is that pretext? The same with cars, but I'm guessing it's even more common with our automotive selections.

None of this is to say the basis of choice needs to be justified. Your point is just sort of interesting.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by H2O_Doc

Yep. The idea of "conspicuous consumption." What's interesting is the stories our minds wrap around it. Did I buy my Rolex to tell time? Did I really pick the Rolex over the Seiko because I appreciate fine craftsmanship or is that pretext? The same with cars, but I'm guessing it's even more common with our automotive selections.

None of this is to say the basis of choice needs to be justified. Your point is just sort of interesting.

I understand your point but it's much more complicated than that. There is the whole display of ability to provide, that is as much evolutionary as it is anything else. But there is also the luxury we have moved towards as technology and development have made our lives richer and safer. Our ability to provide was primary that of food, shelter and security, plus the ability to procreate strong healthy babies. That has evolved in that the food and shelter got better and more comfortable. We have healthcare and as all of these things have evolved and developed the things that spoke to the ability to provide has to evolved. Physical strength isn't the defining factor that it once was, now a good tech job might create the ability to provide shelter and comfort....and frankly comfort has become more of a concern that food and shelter as they are pretty much a given now.

So, sure owning the rolex vs the seiko may display that wealth and ability it might just be a personal choice as to how to use our disposable income.....honestly, I don't think just because someone is wearing a rolex in an indicator or wealth or ability any more.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Murf993

I understand your point but it's much more complicated than that. There is the whole display of ability to provide, that is as much evolutionary as it is anything else. But there is also the luxury we have moved towards as technology and development have made our lives richer and safer. Our ability to provide was primary that of food, shelter and security, plus the ability to procreate strong healthy babies. That has evolved in that the food and shelter got better and more comfortable. We have healthcare and as all of these things have evolved and developed the things that spoke to the ability to provide has to evolved. Physical strength isn't the defining factor that it once was, now a good tech job might create the ability to provide shelter and comfort....and frankly comfort has become more of a concern that food and shelter as they are pretty much a given now.

So, sure owning the rolex vs the seiko may display that wealth and ability it might just be a personal choice as to how to use our disposable income.....honestly, I don't think just because someone is wearing a rolex in an indicator or wealth or ability any more.

IMO luxury goods signal one has excess resources. Being able to provide a less burdensome life.

[maul3d]

I work finance, and specialize and managed a subprime team.

I found it quite interesting how the people earning a substantial amount of income, home owners, great credit, would usually buy modest and reasonable vehicles, simply for transportation..

Engineer types, doctors, lawyers, VPs... and would also finance at the lowest bargained interest rates, heavy negotiators.. they know to utilize their cash. And borrow cheap.

Now, on the flip side. Our BMWs, Mercs, Audis were primarily sold to people that didnt have $200 to put down as a deposit, worked menial and low paying jobs, or needed cosignors... Could you believe that?

I felt it totally cheapens the ownership of owning a germany luxury vehicle. Hey, I dont mind.. I make a killing writing these deals.

Regarding ROLEX..Personally, I wear a $200 HUGO BOSS watch, to me.. that's my limit.. My wife bought it for my birthday.

Buying watches that usually cost 10% of the MSRP to create, the mass amount of markups in jewellery in general.. doesnt appeal to me! IMHO...but, that's a whole complete other argument and topic!

I prefer comfort, and financial security. But will indulge in spending significantly more for a home/vehicle of preference.

My m4 was Austin Yellow... color says it all.. what does it mean Freud? I'm a recreational alcohol and drug indulging, confident heterosexual man with a large penis that has sick distorted sense of humor, that only few understand.. love to speed..love the rush.. I'm a square peg in a round hole...IM eccentric.. If I didnt have my money , I would have ended up in a mental institution in a stray jacket.

Hahahah!

Cheers

[yco]

driving style shows each individuals character clearly..

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

IMO luxury goods signal one has excess resources. Being able to provide a less burdensome life.

Does it? Lots of people have luxury items that are financed and are making payments on. I'm not sure if that actually signals excess resources or hight credit card debt.

[H2O_Doc]

Originally Posted by yco

driving style shows each individuals character clearly..

It's interesting how aggressive normal people can become, however, behind the wheel. And I mean aggressive toward one another. Very normal people that would never start a fight get into confrontations that sometimes end tragically. Small, trivial mistakes we make changing lanes that get turned into deeply personal offenses. It's interesting. What are those triggers and why does it happen when some of us are behind the wheel?

[H2O_Doc]

This, by the way, is an interesting book that touches on some of this thread:


Traffic: Why We Drive the Way We Do (and What It Says About Us) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0307277194..._iZWMEbAATKXSV

[floridaorange]

As in - waving someone on or letting someone pass = altruism?

Impossible! Everyone is cold hearted and self centered!

Drive nice 👍

[maul3d]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Does it? Lots of people have luxury items that are financed and are making payments on. I'm not sure if that actually signals excess resources or hight credit card debt.

He doesn't get it


My friend cant make his payments on his 30k monthly overhead due to covid...he operates a business, and is desperately trying to get liquidating items to make due... and to top it off, poor bastard suffered a stroke due to stress.

He has new leased escalades, 911 turbo , rolex for him and her...dirt bikes, toys, all leased and financed.. and a big mortgage. Lots of excessive waste of money, which could have even diverted to savings/paying things down..

That's rich? Hes fucked !

HE DOESNT HAVE MONEY BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN OUT OF WORK for a MONTH get it? ZIP!


I

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by maul3d

He doesn't get it


My friend cant make his payments on his 30k monthly overhead due to covid...he operates a business, and is desperately trying to get liquidating items to make due... and to top it off, poor bastard suffered a stroke due to stress.

He has new leased escalades, 911 turbo , rolex for him and her...dirt bikes, toys, all leased and financed.. and a big mortgage. Lots of excessive waste of money, which could have even diverted to savings/paying things down..

That's rich? Hes fucked !

HE DOESNT HAVE MONEY BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN OUT OF WORK for a MONTH get it? ZIP!


I

Originally Posted by maul3d

He doesn't get it


My friend cant make his payments on his 30k monthly overhead due to covid...he operates a business, and is desperately trying to get liquidating items to make due... and to top it off, poor bastard suffered a stroke due to stress.

He has new leased escalades, 911 turbo , rolex for him and her...dirt bikes, toys, all leased and financed.. and a big mortgage. Lots of excessive waste of money, which could have even diverted to savings/paying things down..

That's rich? Hes fucked !

HE DOESNT HAVE MONEY BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN OUT OF WORK for a MONTH get it? ZIP!


I

Originally Posted by Murf993

Does it? Lots of people have luxury items that are financed and are making payments on. I'm not sure if that actually signals excess resources or hight credit card debt.

It's a signal not a fact. Signals require additional information. That's what dating is all about.

[yco]

Originally Posted by H2O_Doc

It's interesting how aggressive normal people can become, however, behind the wheel. And I mean aggressive toward one another. Very normal people that would never start a fight get into confrontations that sometimes end tragically. Small, trivial mistakes we make changing lanes that get turned into deeply personal offenses. It's interesting. What are those triggers and why does it happen when some of us are behind the wheel?

i guess that aggressiveness can be related to that day or mood also but.. when you think how a person drives the car like how smooth he is, how much respect he/she shows, how much calm or excited as well things like that at some extend..

[Jordan's World]

Regarding driving style, I truly believe it a microcosm for everything that person does in their life.

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

IMO luxury goods signal one has excess resources. Being able to provide a less burdensome life.

But what does this say about a 50-something, happily married 30 years to the same wife, and driving a nice car? Excess plumage not necessary in this case, I would figure.

[H2O_Doc]

Originally Posted by dmatre

But what does this say about a 50-something, happily married 30 years to the same wife, and driving a nice car? Excess plumage not necessary in this case, I would figure.

Maybe it's an example of an evolutionary mismatch. We have these drivers of behavior from our past that aren't entirely useful in our current circumstances. 10,000 years ago in a semi-monogamous society, those urges might have led to more offspring, but in our current circumstances lead elsewhere.

[rebekahb]

I'm a speed junkie so there are some days I want to get in my car and just nail it. In sales, I drive everyday so I'm much more lax because it's mundane and just going through the motions. Thinking about it, how I drive is more mood driven.

As far as what we own, the guy above said something about people who didn't have much growing up spending more. That's not me. I enjoy nice things but put a lot of thought into what I buy before I spend it. It took me almost a year to make a decision on my X5. The ONLY reason I bought it was because my car allowance covers at least 90% or the note. It's leased solely because if I don't have my job in 3 years I can walk away & don't have to worry about selling. I also didn't like the 2018 model.

I look at exterior styling & horsepower the most. If you had a bad ass looking Kia SUV with strong horsepower that I liked the looks of I would drive it. The name of a car doesn't mean anything to me. My main thing is I want to step on the accelerator & it respond quickly. If it lags I'm not interested, I don't care how good it looks.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by dmatre

But what does this say about a 50-something, happily married 30 years to the same wife, and driving a nice car? Excess plumage not necessary in this case, I would figure.

Agree, then again 50 is getting up there in terms of starting a family.

[H2O_Doc]

Interesting article an angry drivers:


https://www.apa.org/monitor/jun05/anger

Apparently angry driver research is a thing.

[Megabrode]

Back to the original question: the role of evolution in vehicle choice. For most of our history as a species, we were hunter-gatherers. Men largely hunted, women gathered. To find new prey and collectables, we wandered constantly. The last hunter-gatherers on Earth, Tanzania's Hazda people, clearly demonstrate these truths.

A modern car, in effect, is both a hunting tool and a means of migration. After attaining our current form -- homo sapiens -- in the Olduvai Gorge, we slowly populated most of the habitable planet by tracking, killing, and consuming animal life as well as eating non-poisonous plant life along the way. If we'd had motorized vehicles, I suppose that process would have occurred more quickly.

Then came agriculture, allowing us to settle down, divide the labor more finely, engage in new or highly specialized pursuits, and thus do far more than hunt, gather, wander, and procreate.

Yet our primordial instincts endured. In fact, we've never lost our primitive needs to hunt, gather, wander, and of course procreate.

Today's hunters may do exactly that: hunt, i.e. kill living creatures, now for the thrill of it -- for the satisfaction of an overwhelming primordial need -- rarely for survival. Gatherers, in contrast, seek and acquire "things" of value to them. They're "consumers," not necessarily of edibles. Thoreau, ruminating in his clapboard hut, lamented "the mass of mankind" who devote themselves to acquiring things, often on soul-sucking credit, and hence "live lives of quiet desperation."

Today's hunters, mostly male, buy fast cars capable of chasing down the fleetest prey and compulsively demonstrate their primitive core identity by habitually exceeding posted speed limits. Consider: How many women are members of M3post.com? Why are insurance rates higher for men than for women?

Today's gatherers, mostly female, demonstrate their evolutionary priorities by...you guessed it...shopping. Consider: How many men loathe being dragged to a mall on a lovely Saturday perfect for a twisty road in the foothills? How many women express mortal fear or complain of car-sickness should they accompany their husbands or boyfriends on these excursions?

Modern gatherers drive SUVs, cross-overs, minivans (less so these days), and -- please take no offense -- quite often pickup trucks. All these vehicles are designed for seeking acquisitions and transporting them back to camp or to a more fruitful campsite.

Lest you think I'm stereotyping the sexes, I'll make the obvious point that men, women, and those who identify as neither all possess both hunting and gathering instincts in widely varying proportions. Why else would a man buy a pickup and immediately install an aftermarket gun rack? Why else would a woman buy an SUV capable of 0-60 in 3.9 seconds? Why else are most billionaires men? How else could Danica Patrick lead the field in the Indy 500? The primordial needs to hunt and gather remain strong in all of us.

[GenXer]

I've heard that some people are better judge of spatial relationship. They can precisely maneuver a vehicle in very tight quarters and can park perfectly even without sophisticated 3D cameras. I have no proof of this judging from the curb rashes on used BMW wheels.

Over time, you can behave and drive as if the vehicle is an extension of your limbs. People get upset if you invade their vehicle space too. This is also defined differently based on your location. As car enthusiasts, many of us will get very upset if someone dings our door or scratches our vehicle as if it's our own skin.

The make, model and color of the vehicle not only influence our driving behavior but may be an extension of our personality as well. Perhaps our alter ego. Have you ever seen a mild manner little lady drives like an a**hole?

I often think how our ancestors would react if they were transported to the future and see how fast we can travel in our vehicle. See how 70MPH would look fast to them and what's they're used to seeing in their horse and carriage.