[Elvisfan]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...os/5120328002/

[Humdizzle]

extremely shady business practice. But that's nothing new when dealing with car salesman and dealers. I like the tips at the end though... lol id park that thing right in front of the service bay, take pics of the odometer and overall condition, put keys in the drop box and leave.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

There was a post somewhere saying a dealership wouldn’t accept their lease return on the due date. Anyone else experience this?

[The HACK]

Lol.

Hold my beer.

My father passed away suddenly in January this year. He had leased a 2019 Chevy Bolt. Originally we initiated a lease transfer with GM, fully intending for a family friend to assume the remaining lease term on the car.

Then the pandemic happened. And 60 days into the process and 2 more monthly payments later, we were told that they couldn’t verify the family friend’s income and the lease assumption process is denied.

Shrug.

Fine. We need to return the leased car because my mom was solely dependent on my father and on a fixed retirement income, and she does not have a valid driver’s license. After some back and forth GM said just go ahead and turn the car in to the dealership we bought it from.

So I called and they are indeed open and I brought the car in for my mom, as she is in a high risk group with a higher than 20% mortality rate if she contracts the COVID-19 disease. While at the dealership I kept getting the run around. After about an hour they asked if my dad had an executor of estate. I told them no. Then they asked if there’s a surviving spouse. Yes. My mom. Then they told me she needs to be here to sign the “release forms.”

Ugh. I told her to mask up, I picked her up and brought her back to the dealership, while they prepare the paperwork. All this time my HACK Tingle was going off like CRAZY. I asked to see the paperwork before she signed it...

Lo and behold, they’re sticking her with the remainder of the lease payments (about $25,000) by having her sign a probate form assuming the responsibility for the lease as the surviving spouse, because my dad was the sole signee on the lease contract (she did not co-sign). I blew my gasket. On top of grieving for the loss of a life long partner (they’ve been married for 50 years), the means for her financial support, on a fixed retirement income...They’re trying to fleece a grieving WIDOW.

Jesus. FUCKING. Christ. Have these people no shame?

I stormed out the dealership, refusing to have my mom sign the paperwork. I called GM Financial back and told them the car is parked in my driveway, and since my dad passed away, there will no longer be any more payment be made. They want the car? COME REPOSSESS IT. F*ck them.

3 weeks later someone showed up with a tow truck and took the leased Bolt back.

They tried to stick $25K on a grieving widow. That’s the kind of people they are. They have no soul. They can all rot in hell for all I care.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Lol.

Hold my beer.

My father passed away suddenly in January this year. He had leased a 2019 Chevy Bolt. Originally we initiated a lease transfer with GM, fully intending for a family friend to assume the remaining lease term on the car.

Then the pandemic happened. And 60 days into the process and 2 more monthly payments later, we were told that they couldn’t verify the family friend’s income and the lease assumption process is denied.

Shrug.

Fine. We need to return the leased car because my mom was solely dependent on my father and on a fixed retirement income, and she does not have a valid driver’s license. After some back and forth GM said just go ahead and turn the car in to the dealership we bought it from.

So I called and they are indeed open and I brought the car in for my mom, as she is in a high risk group with a higher than 20% mortality rate if she contracts the COVID-19 disease. While at the dealership I kept getting the run around. After about an hour they asked if my dad had an executor of estate. I told them no. Then they asked if there’s a surviving spouse. Yes. My mom. Then they told me she needs to be here to sign the “release forms.”

Ugh. I told her to mask up, I picked her up and brought her back to the dealership, while they prepare the paperwork. All this time my HACK Tingle was going off like CRAZY. I asked to see the paperwork before she signed it...

Lo and behold, they’re sticking her with the remainder of the lease payments (about $25,000) by having her sign a probate form assuming the responsibility for the lease as the surviving spouse, because my dad was the sole signee on the lease contract (she did not co-sign). I blew my gasket. On top of grieving for the loss of a life long partner (they’ve been married for 50 years), the means for her financial support, on a fixed retirement income...They’re trying to fleece a grieving WIDOW.

Jesus. FUCKING. Christ. Have these people no shame?

I stormed out the dealership, refusing to have my mom sign the paperwork. I called GM Financial back and told them the car is parked in my driveway, and since my dad passed away, there will no longer be any more payment be made. They want the car? COME REPOSSESS IT. F*ck them.

3 weeks later someone showed up with a tow truck and took the leased Bolt back.

They tried to stick $25K on a grieving widow. That’s the kind of people they are. They have no soul. They can all rot in hell for all I care.

Very unfortunate story. The HACK, my sincere condolences. This is not a simple topic. Good article to read:

https://www.parkertrustlaw.com/is-my...se-when-i-die/

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

Very unfortunate story. The HACK, my sincere condolences. This is not a simple topic. Good article to read:

https://www.parkertrustlaw.com/is-my...se-when-i-die/

I was told by GM Financial since my father did not leave behind a will, nor appoint a person responsible for his estate, that even though my mom technically “inherits” his estate, since there’s no co-signee the “death clause” kicks in and the lease is terminated upon my father’s death.

I’m more upset that the dealership tries to stick her with a $25K bill by having her sign the probate form to assume his liabilities even though she does not need to. I even argued that in all my conversation with GM Financial they reassured us that the death clause in the lease contract absolves her of the financial burden. Yet they tried to stick the probate form in front of her to sign.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I was told by GM Financial since my father did not leave behind a will, nor appoint a person responsible for his estate, that even though my mom technically “inherits” his estate, since there’s no co-signee the “death clause” kicks in and the lease is terminated upon my father’s death.

I’m more upset that the dealership tries to stick her with a $25K bill by having her sign the probate form to assume his liabilities even though she does not need to. I even argued that in all my conversation with GM Financial they reassured us that the death clause in the lease contract absolves her of the financial burden. Yet they tried to stick the probate form in front of her to sign.

Agreed. Perplexing and disappointing.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Lol.

Hold my beer.

My father passed away suddenly in January this year. He had leased a 2019 Chevy Bolt. Originally we initiated a lease transfer with GM, fully intending for a family friend to assume the remaining lease term on the car.

Then the pandemic happened. And 60 days into the process and 2 more monthly payments later, we were told that they couldn't verify the family friend's income and the lease assumption process is denied.

Shrug.

Fine. We need to return the leased car because my mom was solely dependent on my father and on a fixed retirement income, and she does not have a valid driver's license. After some back and forth GM said just go ahead and turn the car in to the dealership we bought it from.

So I called and they are indeed open and I brought the car in for my mom, as she is in a high risk group with a higher than 20% mortality rate if she contracts the COVID-19 disease. While at the dealership I kept getting the run around. After about an hour they asked if my dad had an executor of estate. I told them no. Then they asked if there's a surviving spouse. Yes. My mom. Then they told me she needs to be here to sign the "release forms."

Ugh. I told her to mask up, I picked her up and brought her back to the dealership, while they prepare the paperwork. All this time my HACK Tingle was going off like CRAZY. I asked to see the paperwork before she signed it...

Lo and behold, they're sticking her with the remainder of the lease payments (about $25,000) by having her sign a probate form assuming the responsibility for the lease as the surviving spouse, because my dad was the sole signee on the lease contract (she did not co-sign). I blew my gasket. On top of grieving for the loss of a life long partner (they've been married for 50 years), the means for her financial support, on a fixed retirement income...They're trying to fleece a grieving WIDOW.

Jesus. FUCKING. Christ. Have these people no shame?

I stormed out the dealership, refusing to have my mom sign the paperwork. I called GM Financial back and told them the car is parked in my driveway, and since my dad passed away, there will no longer be any more payment be made. They want the car? COME REPOSSESS IT. F*ck them.

3 weeks later someone showed up with a tow truck and took the leased Bolt back.

They tried to stick $25K on a grieving widow. That's the kind of people they are. They have no soul. They can all rot in hell for all I care.

my sincere condolences.

those folks are the scum that should lose their jobs. I try to avoid them completely.

In your case I would have taken unsigned documents and probably discuss a potential case with an atorney. Then I would post copies on the web. Damn scumbags!

[autoart]

I have 2 questions: what if the cust. wants to buy the car after the lease is over? Wouldn't that be a great time to deal on the price/ buyout, since the dealer does not want it. I know in the story the cust. don't want it either.
2nd If you were looking for a car deal I would contact the dealers and ask if anyone is returning a leased car that your interested in. Post fliers, ads facebook and forums and swapalease that you want to buy your leased car. When the would gives you lemons you make lemonade.

[The HACK]

Never thought I’d have to bump this thread.

It’s been 10 months since my dad passed away. While every night we sit down for dinner, there’s a ping of pain when I stare at the empty seat, the pain fades ever so slightly every day. Now I can even talk to my neighbors about our loss (and his recent loss) without having to keep my emotions in check.

Then came a bill from GM Financial.

That’s right. They’re trying to collect money AGAIN from a retired widow on a fixed income. Basically they’ve threatened her with what amounts to lease payment for the last 8 months prior to them selling the Bolt EV in October. They made it pretty clear in the form letter that we’ll be subject to late fees and whatnot, and they will have to “collect” if we don’t pay up.

F**king extorting a 74 year old widow.

It’s not bad enough they they ripped open a freshly healed wound. On top of all the bad that’s been happening this year, it’s like they decided, nah, this family haven’t suffered nearly enough. Let’s walk up and kick them all in the balls as hard as we can, because we can, and because we’re GM.

In a fit of rage I called GM up for an explanation of the charges. “Oh we send that bill out to ALL the estates of the deceased. You don’t have to pay.” Apparently they send out a threatening bill, and I suspect most of the time the grieving estate don’t bother to call and ends up paying because the cost is a fraction of what they would turn around and charge ($1,5xx vs $25,xxx, what they initially tried to extort/scam my mom). This is all PURE PROFIT for GM, because it’s either you pay them what the car’s worth at the time of lease termination due to death ($25,xxx), then they turn around and sell the car and double pocket the $$$, or they try to stick you with a bill for the DIFFERENCE between the residual of the car at the time of termination and the actual value of the car at auction, and pocket that difference because they can and most people don’t bother checking.

This is by far the shadiest car company I have ever had the misfortune to have dealt with for sure.

[cooolone2]

Lmao... Come on, it's a free car then!

Contract expires, hey, here's your car! If you cannot make scheduled drop off convenient for me, then come get it. By the way, letter sent to dealership in writing, registered mail, that after 5 business days, you will charge ($$$ pick a value) the dealership storage for keeping their vehicle on your property! Then find out abandoned property laws, like posting notice in public circulation about the abandoned property in your driveway and give it the time the State law allows for, then post notice to sell the abandoned property!

They don't make the rules... And it's pretty funny that they think they do! You have a contract and that's it, nothing in the contract allows the dealership to force you to extend it, or that you keep their property or maintain it in the event they cannot accommodate reclaiming the property!

Poooof! Done!

[BMWCCA1]

Why do you all blame the dealership? They're not the leasing company, and they don't make the rules. The lessee signed a contract and it is quite clear what happens in the case of death before contract maturity.

We've run into this twice. Luckily our customers are usually extremely wealthy people so it's far from a hardship. In both cases, they paid the lease remainder and turned the car back in, when they could have just kept the car for the remainder of the lease, driven it, and not have paid any more. Just nutz.

[Mason Hatcher]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Why do you all blame the dealership? They're not the leasing company, and they don't make the rules. The lessee signed a contract and it is quite clear what happens in the case of death before contract maturity.

We've run into this twice. Luckily our customers are usually extremely wealthy people so it's far from a hardship. In both cases, they paid the lease remainder and turned the car back in, when they could have just kept the car for the remainder of the lease, driven it, and not have paid any more. Just nutz.

Note to self- never do business with BMWCCA1.

[GenXer]

What can I say, it's a KIA.

Sounds like a shady dealer tactic to me.

Her insurance is $1464 a year?

That's more than what I paid for my 2019 440i xdrive

The insurance on my new $75K Tahoe is just about $800/year

California roads must be scary.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

Note to self- never do business with BMWCCA1.

I didn't make these people pay off their leases. They had their best attorneys pleading their cases to BMW Financial. I, and my dealership, had nothing to do with it. The contract is specific as to how any early termination is calculated.

I told the families if they were going to pay off the lease, they should just use the car for the remaining term. All they avoid by turning it in early is property tax.

What, exactly, are you implying I did wrong??

One gentleman was 87-years-old known for putting together the original land development deal for what became Tyson's Corner in suburban Washington, DC. He'd had four previous cars from me and had already had four heart-attacks.

Another was 85-years old and had been battling cancer for a year when he leased the car. He was an attorney and faculty member in both law and business at two universities. This was probably his 12th car from me over the past 30-years.

[The HACK]

Funny, originally the Chevy dealership tried the same tactic. "Hey, we didn't lease the car. You did. Read the contract, upon termination THIS is the fees you're obliged to pay for breaking that contract."

I took their advice and read the contract, and noticed a small clause on the back side that says "Death Clause." That upon death GM Financial can terminate the contract if there are no other signees on the contract.

It doesn't say "will." It says "can." They make it easy for the dealership, if they so chose, to collect a termination fee. If no one reads the contract, then yeah, the dealership stands to make $$$.

I don't know how BMW FS leases are structured, or if there's a death clause in the contract. I know for sure Toyota Financial does not have a death clause in their lease agreement, thus making the estate fully responsible for for early termination fees. However, quite a few leasing companies DO in fact waive early termination in the event of sudden death and without someone appointed to be in charge of the estate.

I suggest that ANYONE having to deal with a lease contract from a passing love one to read their contract CLOSELY before contacting any dealership to return the vehicle, and to speak with the representatives at the financial company FIRST before taking any actions. You have to make sure that you or the surviving spouse isn't financially liable for said termination fees, should you chose to terminate the contract via the death clause. Because, for sure, the Chevy dealership was in position to fully take advantage of my mom had I not intervened.

[thebmw]

Hack, we all feel for your situation. If anyone else is in the same situation, there are 3 options.
1. Terminate the lease contract early and pay the termination fee.
2. Keep the car until the end of the lease and pay the monthly fees.
3. Sell the lease to someone else using swapalease or services like that.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I took their advice and read the contract, and noticed a small clause on the back side that says "Death Clause." That upon death GM Financial can terminate the contract if there are no other signees on the contract.

It doesn't say "will." It says "can." They make it easy for the dealership, if they so chose, to collect a termination fee. If no one reads the contract, then yeah, the dealership stands to make $$$.

I'm still not sure why everyone thinks the dealership is making out on these transactions. In our case, we had no option to buy the car from the client's estate beyond paying the same amount they would have to. Even on a repossession BMW has to sell the car at auction to determine fair value and then deduct that from what the owner owed. BMW was making that offer to the estates in our cases, that they'd appraise the car and then auction it. I'm confident even the Chevy dealer doesn't control who can take advantage of the death clause. How do you think they profit if the deceased's family doesn't read the contract? The car belongs to GM, not the dealership.

In no case does the dealership profit from such transactions. And, yes, I personally checked the BMW contracts for the daughter of my last deceased customer as I sent a copy to their attorney. There was no death clause. If you total the leased car, the included GAP coverage pays off the lease. If you die, your estate remains responsible for the unpaid balance. The dealership has nothing to do with the transaction.

[Socal_R8]

Man so sorry for your loss and the bullshit this dealer/lease company is putting you through..... next time just tell them you are already talking to a producer at the local news station and expect a camera crew in the next week .....that will likely make this go away real quick with a story like yours.

[RMachuca3d]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

I'm still not sure why everyone thinks the dealership is making out on these transactions. In our case, we had no option to buy the car from the client's estate beyond paying the same amount they would have to. Even on a repossession BMW has to sell the car at auction to determine fair value and then deduct that from what the owner owed. BMW was making that offer to the estates in our cases, that they'd appraise the car and then auction it. I'm confident even the Chevy dealer doesn't control who can take advantage of the death clause. How do you think they profit if the deceased's family doesn't read the contract? The car belongs to GM, not the dealership.

In no case does the dealership profit from such transactions. And, yes, I personally checked the BMW contracts for the daughter of my last deceased customer as I sent a copy to their attorney. There was no death clause. If you total the leased car, the included GAP coverage pays off the lease. If you die, your estate remains responsible for the unpaid balance. The dealership has nothing to do with the transaction.

Offer to buy it back at a fair trade in price and flip it on the spot, then have them pay the difference which I am 99% sure it would be a lot less than what was left on the lease. Since the estate took legal assumption of the leased vehicle at the time of passing, they can also sell it to you, so no legal issue there.

So in essence, a dealership is fully responsible for initiating all of the lease paperwork and making sure everything is penciled out, all the F&I bs addons are milked and pressured onto the customer as much as possible, and collect on all that profit, but as soon as something tragic happens to your client "its not our problem". Yup, sounds like a typical dealership.

Nothing personal against you BMWCCA1, just upset at all the BS dealerships try to pull which is tolerated by the law.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by RMachuca3d

Offer to buy it back at a fair trade in price and flip it on the spot, then have them pay the difference which I am 99% sure it would be a lot less than what was left on the lease. Since the estate took legal assumption of the leased vehicle at the time of passing, they can also sell it to you, so no legal issue there.

So in essence, a dealership is fully responsible for initiating all of the lease paperwork and making sure everything is penciled out, all the F&I bs addons are milked and pressured onto the customer as much as possible, and collect on all that profit, but as soon as something tragic happens to your client "its not our problem". Yup, sounds like a typical dealership.

Nothing personal against you BMWCCA1, just upset at all the BS dealerships try to pull which is tolerated by the law.

You exhibit a basic misunderstanding of leases and contracts. Our dealership has to pay what the lessee owes plus the residual value to purchase the car from BMW on an early termination. Leases are cheap on a monthly basis because the manufacturer places an artificially high residual value which lowers the payment. BMW doesn't care if the car is worth half the residual value at the end because they sold a car. For example, I've never seen a customer purchase an i3 at the end of their lease because in many cases that cost is $10,000 or more over the market value of the car.

For us to buy a car from BMW FS, particularly one in a legal action like bankruptcy or death, costs us the remainder of the payments plus the residual. In many cases the manufacturer cannot sell the car except at auction which determines the value in the market and then factors that into what the estate or bankruptcy charges the original lessee owes.

In these modern times, the dealership might make $2000 leasing a $70k car to a customer. No matter how tragic their circumstances, how do you reasonably expect a dealership to overpay $10,000 or more to help make a bereaved family whole?

Why continue to vilify the dealership? What happens if you die and you still have a home mortgage? Is it the fault of the realtor who sold you the house if it's not worth your mortgage balance? Is it even the bank's fault? So who sucks it up? Do you charge your broker back if you bought stock and had to cash-in to pay health costs and your investment has tanked?

In case you hadn't noticed, there is a lot of unfairness in this world, just as there is risk associated with all purchases that a consumer assumes with little thought. I've worked for dealerships since 1976 and even owned my own for about five-years. I doubt I'd have some third-generation customers from the same family still buying from me today if we act with the malevolence you casually assign to all dealerships in your statements.

Again, lease payments are protected by the included GAP coverage (free in a BMW lease) if the car is totaled. Just like your house, your insurance covers you in case of damage. It does not cover you in the case of depreciation if you want to get out of the mortgage. Or if you die.

If you must place blame in a society where personal responsibility seems to have taken a hike, then blame the manufacturer. Or sue them. That's what the President does.

[Maitre_Absolut]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

You exhibit a basic misunderstanding of leases and contracts. Our dealership has to pay what the lessee owes plus the residual value to purchase the car from BMW on an early termination. Leases are cheap on a monthly basis because the manufacturer places an artificially high residual value which lowers the payment. BMW doesn't care if the car is worth half the residual value at the end because they sold a car. For example, I've never seen a customer purchase an i3 at the end of their lease because in many cases that cost is $10,000 or more over the market value of the car.

For us to buy a car from BMW FS, particularly one in a legal action like bankruptcy or death, costs us the remainder of the payments plus the residual. In many cases the manufacturer cannot sell the car except at auction which determines the value in the market and then factors that into what the estate or bankruptcy charges the original lessee.

In these modern times, the dealership might make $2000 leasing a $70k car to a customer. No matter how tragic their circumstances, how do you reasonably expect a dealership to overpay $10,000 or more to help make a bereaved family whole?

Why continue to vilify the dealership? What happens if you die and you still have a home mortgage? Is it the fault of the realtor who sold you the house if it's not worth your mortgage balance? Is it even the bank's fault? So who sucks it up? Do you charge your broker back if you bought stock and had to cash-in to pay health costs and your investment has tanked?

In case you hadn't noticed, there is a lot of unfairness in this world, just as there is risk associated with all purchases that a consumer assumes with little thought. I've worked for dealerships since 1976 and even owned my own for about five-years. I doubt I'd have some third-generation customers from the same family still buying from me today if we act with the malevolence you casually assign to all dealerships in your statements.

Again, lease payments are protected by the included GAP coverage (free in a BMW lease) if the car is totaled. Just like your house, your insurance covers you in case of damage. It does not cover you in the case of depreciation if you want to get out of the mortgage. Or if you die.

If you must place blame in a society where personal responsibility seems to have taken a hike, then blame the manufacturer. Or sue them. That's what the President does.

Great post. Always makes me wonder how people afford BMWs and are clueless to basic finance.