[stein_325i]

Update 4/12: Toyota shows a glimpse of their first new Electric SUV with a front end photo and teaser video. The EV which will be revealed at the Shanghai Auto Show on April 19th is likely to be a collaborative effort with Subaru.

Originally Posted by CNET

Although Toyota is one of a couple automakers taking a seriously hard look at hydrogen fuel cells for passenger cars, it's also working to not be left behind when it comes to electric cars. On Monday, Toyota underscored that message as it shed just a little bit of light on a new electric SUV. Meanwhile, its luxury division, Lexus, teased a new electric concept car.

We'll start with Toyota first. The Japanese brand provided a simple sketched outline of the electric SUV to come, set for a reveal in the next couple months, but we think we know a little more about this vehicle than what Toyota provided. A second photo it supplied is the same picture the brand used when announcing a partnership with Subaru in 2019. The goal of the program is to produce an EV platform the two companies will share, and the first vehicle to ride on said platform? A compact SUV, just like Toyota talked about today.

The brand said this SUV will be a totally new vehicle and Europe has first dibs. It could be that this is a separate vehicle altogether, but we can't toss out the idea Toyota plans this SUV for the US, too. As for Subaru's version, it should share many of the mechanicals and rumors point to the "Evoltis" name for the model.

We have a name for the platform as well: e-TNGA. TNGA stands for "Toyota New Global Architecture," and "e" is often the go-to designator in the auto industry to tell the world something's electric. Toyota promised more details to come, but e-TNGA is totally scalable, provides space for all sorts of battery and electric motor configurations, and suits front-, rear- and all-wheel drive applications.

Now, to Lexus. The luxury division branded its electrified technology "Direct4," which references what Lexus describes as "instant electric control to all four wheels to transform dynamic performance." The system will work with future hybrid and battery electric vehicles and promises a hyper-responsive car.

A move to electric power will also see Lexus transform its design, and the brand supplied a single teaser of a new concept car it plans to reveal in the first quarter of next year. It's tough to make out details, but it looks like an evolution of the brand's current corporate face. Expect the grille to get a major overhaul, since EVs don't require nearly as much cooling as an internal-combustion engine.

Electric Toyota SUV, Lexus concept teased as brands shift to battery power

[chassis]

Is this the beginning of the March of the Majors (Toyota, Ford, Honda, VW) on Tesla's castle? Will Tesla give ground in the market?

If all of the established carmakers offer full EV choices (M-B, BMW, Volvo, Porsche, Jag, and the mid and lower priced models), will Tesla fade away into a niche brand?

[to_riffic]

Originally Posted by chassis

Is this the beginning of the March of the Majors (Toyota, Ford, Honda, VW) on Tesla's castle? Will Tesla give ground in the market?

If all of the established carmakers offer full EV choices (M-B, BMW, Volvo, Porsche, Jag, and the mid and lower priced models), will Tesla fade away into a niche brand?

Doubt they'll fade anytime soon. Tesla has it's range in it's favor right now. With every other manufacturer coming out with their own EV's with a range of less than 250miles, they're still behind compared to what Tesla can offer and priced higher with lower range...

[heavyD^2]

There's little doubt their advantage will erode to the point where their vehicles will be a hard sell vs more polished and refined EV's but they will remain as more of a tech company as really that's what they do best. The Mach-E alone is probably going to steal a lot of sales from them and that's before other automakers get in the game.

[mkoesel]

Interestingly, this isn't actually Toyota/Lexus' first EV:

https://electrek.co/2020/04/27/all-e...evs-to-follow/

But it is the first one that has been designed expressly with markets outside of a China in mind. They've been talking about their EV partnership with BYD for over a year:

https://electrek.co/2019/06/07/toyot...celerate-plan/
https://electrek.co/2019/07/19/toyota-byd-china-evs/

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Interestingly, this isn't actually Toyota/Lexus' first EV

https://electrek.co/2020/04/27/all-e...evs-to-follow/

But it is the first one that has been designed expressly with markets outside of a China in mind. They've been talking about their EV partnership with BYD for over a year:

https://electrek.co/2019/06/07/toyot...celerate-plan/
https://electrek.co/2019/07/19/toyota-byd-china-evs/

Yes, that's why I added "proper" to the title, as cars like their Lexus UX EV overseas are a lazy attempt at an electric car.

I'm very curious to see how they will progress with EV's. Hopefully, like the original Prius, they will be able to make a very economical and efficient vehicle.

[aardate]

I personally don’t think automakers can compete with Tesla at the moment. Tesla is a tech company first and a car manufacturer second and that is a large part of Tesla’s success.

Car manufacturers especially Japanese ones are way behind in the tech field and this will turn new younger buyers away from them unless they really re-think their entire approach to electrification.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

There's little doubt their advantage will erode to the point where their vehicles will be a hard sell vs more polished and refined EV's

I agree this will happen if:

- Other manufacturers are able to compete on cost while offering superior quality. No doubt traditional manufacturers have the latter part of that covered. But the former? The timeline is unclear on that.

- Other manufacturers are able to make up ground on Tesla in the areas of drivetrain efficiency, battery technology, and battery production capacity. Here again there is some uncertainty.

Depending on who you talk to opinions vary from "the battle is already over and the established automotive industry has lost" to "the EV-only start-ups don't stand a chance once the market picks up and the big-boys catch up". Truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

[SteveinArizona]

I think you will see a convergence. Tesla will be forced to commit more resources to fit and finish and traditional car makers will be forced to add range and power to their mostly insipid electric offerings.

For consumers...it should be all good.

[dreamingat30fps]

What about Tesla supercharger network? I almost never need to use a charger outside my garage, however knowing there are superchargers around pretty much everywhere I go where I can get a decent amount of charge in 15-30min does make me feel better on longer trips. I know there are people out there who rely heavily on supercharging and some who ONLY charge at superchargers because they live in apartments etc.

Sure there are other EV chargers out there. There's a million around here but they all seem to be very slow (20 miles/hour). Still I would love to see some real competition for Tesla having bought my first EV this year mainly for fun I am sold on EV. I LOVE that I never have to put gas (for the convenience factor) and always start the day with a "full tank". The instant power is also pretty addicting. So I would love to have more options when buying my next EV because right now for me the only real option is Tesla.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Sure there are other EV chargers out there. There's a million around here but they all seem to be very slow (20 miles/hour).

Those are AC Level 2 chargers. Level 3 (also known as DC fast) chargers are able to charge at much faster rates, some of them (when paired with properly capable vehicles) even faster than Tesla's.

You are correct that charging infrastructure is another area in which Tesla holds an advantage at this time. However, this is an area that is likely to see substantial improvement over the next five years or so.

[pikkagtr]

All the old asian ladies in the Bay area who were apprehensive with new tech and unfamiliar with Tesla will flock to the new rx350 EV equivalent because it's a Lexus and it "supposed" to be more reliable and easier to use
They'll all buy them in droves, white color and wear those giant face shields driving them
Just a hunch
🤣

[RM7]

Toyota had seemed to be a holdout for hydrogen for a while, which was simply the wrong road to go down IMO. Hydrogen is dependant on making hydrogen (takes a huge amount of energy) and then trucking it all over the country, storing it in containers, having all sorts of specialized equipment and the incredible strength/materials that are required to store it at gas-stations, depots, etc. It's just not practical for autos compared to an EV. An EV doesn't care where the electricity comes from, gas turbine, hydro electric, thermal, solar, wind, fusion, fission, etc. Infinitely more flexible. Not perfect as far as infrastructure, but there is some and that's infinitely more than there is for hydrogen. Hydrogen might have a role, but it won't be for day to day autos IMO.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Depending on who you talk to opinions vary from "the battle is already over and the established automotive industry has lost" to "the EV-only start-ups don't stand a chance once the market picks up and the big-boys catch up". Truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

Anyone thinks the battle is over isn't worth listening to. Batteries aren't rocket science. Automakers are behind but it won't take long for them to catch up. Tesla has some good tech and a head start but we are talking automobiles here not spaceships. The industry will adapt.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

All the old asian ladies in the Bay area who were apprehensive with new tech and unfamiliar with Tesla will flock to the new rx350 EV equivalent because it's a Lexus and it "supposed" to be more reliable and easier to use
They'll all buy them in droves, white color and wear those giant face shields driving them
Just a hunch
��

There's merit here. As enthusiasts we know Tesla well and discuss them a lot but the average person doesn't really pay much attention to Tesla or desire to own one. My wife for example is oblivious to them and if I gave her $60k to buy a new vehicle today there's zero chance she comes home in a Tesla as it won't even be on her radar. The average consumer will make the jump to EV's only when their brand of choice has an affordable offering.

[smrtypants44]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I agree this will happen if:

- Other manufacturers are able to compete on cost while offering superior quality. No doubt traditional manufacturers have the latter part of that covered. But the former? The timeline is unclear on that.

- Other manufacturers are able to make up ground on Tesla in the areas of drivetrain efficiency, battery technology, and battery production capacity. Here again there is some uncertainty.

Depending on who you talk to opinions vary from "the battle is already over and the established automotive industry has lost" to "the EV-only start-ups don't stand a chance once the market picks up and the big-boys catch up". Truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

don't forget supercharging. I think Tesla will still maintain an edge until a national charging network that competes with supercharging is established.

[stein_325i]

Agree with others, supercharging is a huge benefit for me. Getting 300 miles a charge is nice, but having a reliable charging network is betting in my opinion and allows for less worry if one hasn't charged up in a while.

While electrify america is another option for non-Tesla's, the customer service and support is abysmal and their charger reliability is poor. Had a friend who had some very poor experiences with his Audi and EA and others with similar experiences. The infrastructure just isn't there yet.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by smrtypants44

don't forget supercharging. I think Tesla will still maintain an edge until a national charging network that competes with supercharging is established.

Yep, that also came up in a follow-up post above. As more vehicles enter the fleet, the gap should begin to close because rather than every major automaker developing their own network, they are all investing money into just a handful of players.

On that note, some suggest consolidation will occur at the vehicle manufacturer level as well. We've already seen the merger of PSA and FCA, two very large players. Others may come over the course of this decade.

[AlexFL]

And.... it’s an SUV!

[supra93]

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-...or-u-s-market/

Portfolio will add two Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) and a plug-in hybrid (PHEV)

Internal research shows BEV and PHEV models have similar environmental benefits

Latest Environmental Action Plan pursues targets in support of Toyota Environmental Challenge 2050

PLANO, Texas (February 10, 2021) – Toyota Motor North America (TMNA) announced plans to debut in the U.S. market this year, three new electrified models – two BEVs and a PHEV.

“We continue to be leaders in electrification that began with our pioneering introduction of the Prius nearly 25 years ago,” said Bob Carter, TMNA executive vice president of sales. “Toyota’s new electrified product offerings will give customers multiple choices of powertrain that best suits their needs.”

The new electrified models further expand Toyota’s U.S. leadership in alternative powertrain vehicles. Toyota has over 40% share of the total alternative fuel vehicle market, which includes a 75% share of the fuel cell market and a 64% share of hybrids and plug-ins. By 2025, Toyota’s goal is to have 40% of new vehicle sales be electrified models, and by 2030 expects that to increase to nearly 70%.

Globally, Toyota hybrid vehicles sold have avoided an estimated 139 million tons of greenhouse gas (GHG) into the atmosphere. In the U.S., we have avoided approximately 38 million tons of GHG. This achievement is the result of Toyota’s long-standing commitment to the environment and creating a net positive impact on the planet and society.

Between now and 2025, Toyota and Lexus models, globally, will have an electrified option. Toyota is also developing a dedicated BEV platform, e-TNGA, that offers flexibility for all drive configurations. These initiatives are further steps toward achieving the Toyota Environmental Challenge 2050, introduced in 2015, the most demanding and most inspiring environmental commitments Toyota has ever made.

“We believe the fastest way to lower greenhouse gases in the transportation sector is to offer drivers lower carbon choices that meet their needs,” said Gill Pratt, chief scientist of Toyota Motor Corporation and CEO of Toyota Research Institute. “At every price point and with multiple powertrains, we can put more people in cleaner automobiles across North America to have the greatest near-term impact on total carbon emissions.”

Toyota shared highlights of new internal research evaluating the environmental impact and cost of ownership between a PHEV and a BEV. For this research, Toyota created a tool that shows the trade-off between GHG Emissions and Total Cost of Ownership. The source code for this tool is publicly available at carghg.org for others to experiment with the various input parameters and see the movement of BEVs and PHEVs on the GHG and cost plot. The research found:

• GHG of a currently available BEV model and PHEV model are roughly the same in on-road performance when factoring in pollutants created by electricity production for the average U.S. energy grid used to charge batteries.
• Manufacturing is a component of GHG emissions. Using the “Greenhouse gases, Regulated Emissions, and Energy use in Technologies” (GREET) model, researchers found that the production of a PHEV emits less GHG since it uses a smaller, lighter weight battery.
• The PHEV is much less expensive to buy and own, compared to the BEV. Without any incentives, the five-year Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) of a long-range BEV is significantly higher than the PHEV. If you include incentives available this year (2020), the TCO of a long-range BEV is much higher.

The key point is that a BEV and PHEV can provide similar environmental benefits. Each has a unique profile and can be an optimal solution in different circumstances. By having a diversified product portfolio with multiple forms of vehicle electrification, Toyota can let consumers choose the model that best suits their usage needs and cost profile while maximizing the total contribution to GHG reduction.

Toyota’s progress on Challenge 2050 in North America is measured across four key areas – reducing carbon emissions, conserving water, fostering a sustainable supply chain including waste reduction, and protecting biodiversity. Sustainability planning, strategies and actions are driven by an annual North American Environmental Action Plan, with a five-year roadmap modeled to achieve targets in Challenge 2050 and also the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). Toyota is currently targeting:

• Reduction in CO2 from the company’s operations, products and vehicle lifecycle – including logistics, suppliers and dealers
• Reduction in overall water use per unit of vehicle production by 3% from a 2020 baseline
• Reduction of procurement of plastic packaging materials by 25% from a 2018 baseline
• Development of third party validated onsite habitat management policy by 2021 and begin implementation in 2022.

As proof of its commitment, Toyota recently agreed to purchase power from a future Clearway Energy Group wind farm to reduce its overall carbon footprint from electricity used from the power grid. Toyota also provided an annual update toward having a net positive environmental impact in the 2020 North American Environmental Report.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Electrek

Toyota released the first teaser picture of an upcoming new electric car called "X Prologue," ahead of its unveiling next week.

The Japanese automaker has yet to launch an all-electric vehicle outside of China.

Despite the fact that the company announced an acceleration of its electric vehicle plans last year, the Japanese automaker has been focused on hybrids and fuel cell vehicles, and it has often dismissed battery-electric vehicles.

Last year, Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda went on a rant about battery-electric vehicles at an annual meeting, and he spread misinformation about electric vehicles and claimed that it wasn't a good idea to push for massive electrification.

Despite all that, Toyota needs to add some EVs in its lineup to be competitive, and it has announced new electric cars coming this year.

"Please join us online at www.x-prologue.com on Wednesday 17th March at 10:00 CET to see the full reveal."

While there's no indication in the press release that it is an electric vehicle, the image shows a closed front-fascia, which all but confirms that the vehicle is going to be electric.

Interestingly, Toyota posted the release on its European media site and not its global or North American media sites, which could mean that it will be a Europe-only model.

Several automakers have been launching new electric vehicles exclusively in Europe, where regulations are forcing them to have a higher mix of electric vehicles in their sales in order to comply with emission standards.

However, Toyota recently announced two electric cars coming to the US this year.

It also not clear if X Prologue is going to be a concept or a vehicle intended for production.

We should have all the details next week after the unveiling.

https://electrek.co/2021/03/10/toyot...-electric-car/

[Tacoma]

Toyota has been resting on their "we make reliable cars" laurel and IIRC haven't revealed any real breakthroughs since they introduced the Prius 20 years ago. They had to go to BMW to build their Supra because they - the largest car company in the world - didn't have a good enough turbo i6 ICE. This teaser doesn't point to anything exciting, so what's the point, why bother? I'm sure it'll be reliable and underwhelming.