[bandersen]

1. Car gets 100% PPF - no ceramic. How do I maintain the car going forward - wax/nanosprays/buffing?

1. Car gets front PPF, and then entire ceramic. Same question - how should I maintain this going forward in terms of buffing/polishing/detailing?

I plan on keeping this last gasoline car of mine for a long time!

Thanks.

[januza]

Originally Posted by bandersen

1. Car gets 100% PPF - no ceramic. How do I maintain the car going forward - wax/nanosprays/buffing?

1. Car gets front PPF, and then entire ceramic. Same question - how should I maintain this going forward in terms of buffing/polishing/detailing?

I plan on keeping this last gasoline car of mine for a long time!

Thanks.

I did a full car wrap with PPF. my installer told me regular pressure wash is fine. Sponge and soap is fine and wipe with clean towel.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by bandersen

1. Car gets 100% PPF - no ceramic. How do I maintain the car going forward - wax/nanosprays/buffing?

1. Car gets front PPF, and then entire ceramic. Same question - how should I maintain this going forward in terms of buffing/polishing/detailing?

I plan on keeping this last gasoline car of mine for a long time!

Thanks.

you've probably already made your decisions, but for anyone else - that's a lot of money to spend ...

for me, with a $100 worth of stuff you can get equal results over that same time period if you're willing to put in 20 min every few weeks, even if you don't have access to a garage or hoses for water.

There are tons of great "light" & consumer-grade SiO2 products that are cheap & easy to use and maintain ... yes PPF will give you protection from a rock strike, but then you're probably gonna need to get that repaired anyway AND have the PPF repaired ... and PPF will protect your paint from pitting, but that takes a lot of years before it's noticeable to anyone other than your detailer, and, again, you'd have to replace the PPF at that point.

I'm cheap so I'd go with the $100 + a monthly 20 min to get a similar look

[5pacey]

It's not 20 min lol

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

It's not 20 min lol

I can do a waterless water on a maintained car in 10 - 15 min (and it looks = or better than foam cannon-2-buckets-blahbla).

I just said 20 min to be polite because some people are slow.

[Rondi]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

you've probably already made your decisions, but for anyone else - that's a lot of money to spend ...

for me, with a $100 worth of stuff you can get equal results over that same time period if you're willing to put in 20 min every few weeks, even if you don't have access to a garage or hoses for water.

There are tons of great "light" & consumer-grade SiO2 products that are cheap & easy to use and maintain ... yes PPF will give you protection from a rock strike, but then you're probably gonna need to get that repaired anyway AND have the PPF repaired ... and PPF will protect your paint from pitting, but that takes a lot of years before it's noticeable to anyone other than your detailer, and, again, you'd have to replace the PPF at that point.

I'm cheap so I'd go with the $100 + a monthly 20 min to get a similar look

I have been thinking about this ppf + ceramic stuff. It not only would it cost me $3k, but also I would have to leave my new x6 there for full freaking 4 days!

Whatever, I’m not doing this…

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Rondi

I have been thinking about this ppf + ceramic stuff. It not only would it cost me $3k, but also I would have to leave my new x6 there for full freaking 4 days!

Whatever, I’m not doing this…

well that's kinda the thing ...

I've been doing my own detailing for 15 years, from way back in the days when the hot setup was a porter-cable RO & Menzerna polish you had to special order from Germany & foam cannons were unobtanium. Then I moved to a place without access to a hose, drain, etc so I started having it professionally done by specific dude I selected; he did a good job, but a wash was $50 & a 6 month protection was $300-$500. It just got to be too much ...

Well, way back in the olden days, I lived in a snow state so it was hard to wash in the winter, even with a drain & heated garage, it was no fun, so I started using "RV Wash", which you had to order special from an RV store.

Turns out, all that was, was waterless wash ...

Well, in the last 5 years people have started dropping huge $$$ on PPF/ceramic, and I've considered it year after year, but every time I looked at cars with it, they never looked better than mine which is just a 20 min waterless wash ... many times mine looks better and here's why: ceramic's weakness is water spots.

Finally this year I came to a firm conclusion:

For me, there's just no value in PPF and/or professionally applied ceramic; it doesn't solve anything for me and the cost & time factor is huge.

So when this new car comes in, like allinon72, I'm just gonna give it a decent wash - a clay if needed, maybe a decontaminate like a iron remover, prep it with a 50/50 alcohol & distilled water solution and then I"m gonna use a cheap graphene coating, like Turtle Wax's Graphene Flex Wax. I'll probably also treat the windows (after a water/alcohol prep & invisible glass) with either the TW or maybe Gyeon's window stuff. For the interior I'm going to try Colourlock's new leather kit.

I'm gonna buy all new stuff too so all in I think it'll be about $250 for the next 3-4 years and I expect the first detail to take about 3 hours for inside and out.

If all goes well, then I should be able to maintain with waterless washes & TW's graphene flex wax as a drying agent, probably for at least a year until I need to do another clay.

So let's say:

* 3 hours up front
* 30 min every 3-6 weeks to maintain
* 2 hours / year for a new prep & seal

and that's for waterless washes so just a small pail, a few MFs and no hoses & mess

[Rondi]

Yeah…
And, look, I bought a new loaded X3 with the inline 6 motor in Aug. 2013, took it to a regular car wash monthly for years, and I think the paint looks great even after 8 years.

I will probably use this money to upgrade the sound system, if it really sucks like some are saying

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I can do a waterless water on a maintained car in 10 - 15 min (and it looks = or better than foam cannon-2-buckets-blahbla).

I just said 20 min to be polite because some people are slow.

Ok, wth is "waterless" water/wash or whatever? And if no hose how do you get rid of stuff off the surface so you don't rub it in?

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

Ok, wth is "waterless" water/wash or whatever? And if no hose how do you get rid of stuff off the surface so you don't rub it in?

this is the gist. other brands/products exist

Washing Car in Winter https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1677420

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

Ok, wth is "waterless" water/wash or whatever? And if no hose how do you get rid of stuff off the surface so you don't rub it in?

Here's the thing: it's the two-bucket method that's rubbing in grit since it re-uses wash mitts! Once you jam the dirty mitt into the clean water bucket the first time, that bucket is now dirty not to mention no matter how much grit guard scrubbing you do, you're not getting the mitt clean.

IME, 2-bucket is a fail by design - I just never knew a better way until winter washing forced me to be creative and then I started wondering why I didn't just do that all of the time ...

Controversial editorial aside, here's what I do:

(1.) Optimum No rinse Wash & Wax (ONR) + 1/2 gallon of distilled water in a small bucket mixed double or triple strength - you can even use a collapsible bucket or a cut-off water bottle if you're low on space.

(2.) Put 4 microfiber rags into the bucket and, ideally, some of the solution in a sprayer. Have 4 more clean dry MFs at the ready. (Note - if you don't know how to clean & wash your MFs, learn, because hot water, the wrong detergent, & washing with other fabrics ruins MF)

Optional, but recc'd: spray the first panel, say 1/2 the hood, with ONR

(3.) Take a rag out dripping & fold into 4ths - squeeze just enough solution out so it's not all sloppy. Each 1/4 of the rag will be used to clean 1 panel (hood counts as 2 panels). NEVER put that rag back in the bucket. Once a rag comes out, it's out. Never rinse it out until you're 100% done with everything and never put it back in the clean water bucket.

(4.) GENTLY wipe the panel in a single direction. Spray down the next panel. With your other hand, use a dry MF folded into 4ths to more/less dry the first panel. DO NOT REUSE THAT 1/4 of the MF. It's done. Flip over for the next panel, using a clean MF 1/4 for each panel. Once the rag has been used on the panels, grab a new one.

(5.) Repeat for all panels. Then use a final MF to buff out the whole car and get any drops left behind.

It'll shine like a baby's ass.

If you want to get fancy, do this from the top down (roof first) and split your side panels into top & bottom, since the bottom is usually dirtier than the top. You can also count the rocker panels / dirtest parts as their own panel.

This won't require any more water than that 1/2 gallon of distilled water. And if you want to be REALLY fancy you can use a post-wash spray&wax like meguires.

If my car is really dirty then I'll take it to a u-spray place and powerspray it off first, then go home and do the wash.

You can also do the wheels & tires this way, but it's a tad more tricky, especially if they're not coated and/or maintained. If that's the case they'll for sure need a U-wash spray off & wheel brush first.

Then you can use an acidic wheel cleaner like Super Clean or Purple Power or P&S wheel/tire cleaner which isn't. Basically you spray on the cleaner, let it sit for 30sec to 1min, then wipe off with Rags-in-a-box. I usually have a spray bottle with distilled water to spray on after too, and then wipe off. Then you can dress with whatever you want.

For windows, I usually use a 50/50 dilution of rubbing alcohol & water to get all the grim off, then use invisible glass (both inside & out). for the windshield I'll usually also use a magic eraser and/or clay it, then wipe down with invisible glass again before I seal it with a glass water beader.

For bugs, you can use gtechniq's W8 bug remover, or gyeon, or citrol by shaffer's. If it's bad I'll "wash" first to get the dirt off, then spray on the bug stuff and let it "dwell" for awhile, then wipe off with a rags-in-a-box and then seal. Keep some in the back for road trips - when you stop, go to a U-wash, spray down all the bugs, let it dwell for a minute or so, then power spray. That'll usually take 99% of bugs off. I keep a collapsible bucket, MFs, ONR, Meg's spray-n-wax, citrol in my trunk which makes road trip clean ups super fast even in a hotel parking lot, though I usually go to a U-wash if there's one close and just do it there.

It probably all sounds like a lot but once you do it a few times it becomes muscle memory and goes really fast - I'l usually just be getting into a podcast by the time I"m done.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

this is the gist. other brands/products exist

Washing Car in Winter https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1677420

Very interesting... I am still processing. I am having hard time accepting that spraying magic foam on the paint prevents scratches when you then rub it with stuff. Physics would seem to indicate that unless you remove grit, sand, soil and other hard particles, before you then run a towel, no matter how soft, with some pressure against the paint, there will be scratching. This is why you should never try and wipe off bird poo with a towel or anything else. It tends to have sand or calcerous (iow, small rocks) deposits which are basically like 80 grit sand paper. Unless the magic foam dissolves the sand or other particles capable of scratching. But then I wonder what it does to clear coat. Hose water loosens those particles normally and washes them off without actually pressing into the clear coat therefore minimizing scratching.

That said, I am nowhere near as dedicated as many here, certainly not GrussGott, and have not washed or detailed my car personally in years, so I am definitely not current w/latest and greatest in the detailing domain.

[Rondi]

Got my x6 Friday off the dealer at 5pm, drove around Saturday, over light rain in the afternoon. I had ordered some microfiber rags and a cleaner from Amazon, these showed up at my door Sunday by 9am… well…

I did a waterless cleaning this am, took me about 40 minutes, including wheels. No scratches, paint really cool, shining, clean, and bright. No problems.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Rondi

Got my x6 Friday off the dealer at 5pm, drove around Saturday, over light rain in the afternoon. I had ordered some microfiber rags and a cleaner from Amazon, these showed up at my door Sunday by 9am… well…

I did a waterless cleaning this am, took me about 40 minutes, including wheels. No scratches, paint really cool, shining, clean, and bright. No problems.

Looks great Rondi - wow, 40 min your first time is pretty awesome!

Try it again, but after you're done, coat it with Turtle Wax's graphene flex wax or a similar protectant, which'll then make it easier the next time!

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

Hose water loosens those particles normally and washes them off without actually pressing into the clear coat therefore minimizing scratching.

Experience is a great teacher! Here's where you're maybe missing stuff which, once you see it yourself, it'll make sense ...

(a.) Yes, if your car is really dirty you need to spray it off
By "really dirty" I mean you can see hunks of mud or dirt stuck on the car. In that case there's no getting around it, you gotta spray those big hunks off. That said, that's a rarity for most people, even in snow states ... for most people, their car has a layer of oils & dirt that water won't spray off. This is the stuff you see as a dirt film, but usually few individual grains since if your eye can see them they're heavy enough to fall off. It's that oil/dirt film with its microscopic particles that causes the spiderwebs. So if water spray won't get it off, what does?

(b.) It's removing the soap that does the cleaning
Why? Well it's the mechanism that makes soap work in the first place: the tails of the soap molecules are repelled by water and attracted to oils, which attracts dirt. The tails cluster together to form micelles which are the structures that trap the dirt and oils. Thus to do the cleaning, you only need enough water to repel the soap, form the micelles, which attract the dirt & oils and trap it. Said differently, it ain't the water you care most about, it's the soap.

Ok, so if the soap is now on the car's dirt film trapping the dirt & oil, just spray it off and done right? Well no.

Which brings us to the crux of the problem: Yes, the micelles are negatively charged and soluble in water, so they repel each other and latch onto that grease, dirt & oil ... but if that bond is weaker than the dirt's bond to your paint (and it mostly is or there wouldn't be a film in the first place) then the water will either just wash over the soap/dirt combo OR break the soap's bond with dirt. Either way, you've left the dirt in place.

So to solve the problem, we need something to grab BOTH the water AND the soap/dirt ... in a 2 bucket method that something is a wash mitt. If any of this is making sense, then you're seeing why using that mitt over & over from a 2nd bucket of rinse water is a bad idea: that bucket is full of micelles packed with dirt a few of which stick to the mitt and get back onto to the car causing spider-webbing.

Fuck. So what do we do?

(c.) Plastics.


Enter the genius of microfiber. Without going into the specifics, MF is GRRR8 at breaking that dirt/paint bond AND soaking up that water/soap/dirt mixture. This is why if you're using distilled water - which has maximum capacity to dissolve stuff - with soap and doing one wipe you're leveraging the power of MF, distilled water, and soap all in one go. The MF is like a velcro for soap/dirt, releasing it from the car and attaching it to the MF.

So, as long as you're gentle,
AND you routinely maintain your car
AND you've used a paint protectant like ceramic or graphene or any LSP or wax (all of which repel dirt and/or create a weak bond with it),
the waterless wash should be really easy & really effective while creating minimal spider webs ... certainly equal or less than a mitt wash.

And finally, however you do it, there's no getting around it: PPF, ceramic, whatever, you still gotta do this, i.e., wash your car if you want it to look nice. So you either pay a LOT for PPF and then a LOT for someone to do it (who for sure cares less about your car than you) ... or you pay a little for you to do it.

or you just skip the whole thing and roll in a dirt wagon.

[Rondi]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Looks great Rondi - wow, 40 min your first time is pretty awesome!

Try it again, but after you're done, coat it with Turtle Wax's graphene flex wax or a similar protectant, which'll then make it easier the next time!

Thanks GG. The car just had some light rain drops marks, and minor mud sprinkling at the bottom all around. it appears that this waterless methodology is actually a much better way to keep the car clean. It takes less time than either going to a self service car wash or a full detail service. And, it is much cheaper, as I spent $10 on the product I used.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Rondi

Thanks GG. The car just had some light rain drops marks, and minor mud sprinkling at the bottom all around. it appears that this waterless methodology is actually a much better way to keep the car clean. It takes less time than either going to a self service car wash or a full detail service. And, it is much cheaper, as I spent $10 on the product I used.

ha, yeah, it literally takes me less time than the one-way drive to my old detailer

[Ashme]

Originally Posted by bandersen

1. Car gets 100% PPF - no ceramic. How do I maintain the car going forward - wax/nanosprays/buffing?

1. Car gets front PPF, and then entire ceramic. Same question - how should I maintain this going forward in terms of buffing/polishing/detailing?

I plan on keeping this last gasoline car of mine for a long time!

Thanks.

You should really maintain them both the same way. The only difference will be that you'll get more tiny rock chips and such without PPF and you'll get more swirl marks in the paint without a coating.

Swirl marks build up gradually. Obviously, proper and careful washing reduces the build up. Stuff like automatic car washes drastically speed it up. Good coatings (not spray on stuff) prevent that. You can add spray on stuff after each wash to upkeep it I guess. I don't bother. I spend one day polishing the car and coating it with a good +7 year coating and don't worry about it after that. After a good coating, 90% of the dirt will come off with just a rinse. I've rinsed and then used a blower to just dry off the car before when I was in a rush.

If you're keeping it a while, do a coating at least (but if you do PPF, you should do that before the coating). I would also, at the very least, PPF the headlights. You can probably do this at home pretty easily. Pitted headlights are ugly (and distort light).

I can't stand swirl marks. Takes all the shine out of the car.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

Ok, wth is "waterless" water/wash or whatever? And if no hose how do you get rid of stuff off the surface so you don't rub it in?

5pacey I was just watching this vid and thought of you! The dude actually puts dirt on a freshly polished car and then wipes it off with a waterless wash / detailer & no scratches or swirls!

Check out 6:15

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

5pacey I was just watching this vid and thought of you! The dude actually puts dirt on a freshly polished car and then wipes it off with a waterless wash / detailer & no scratches or swirls!

Thanks for posting and the thoughts! I am literally about to head out the door to drop the carr of for full frontal PPF and tint. But then... they are trying to convince me (not really a hard sell, I am just being torn between indecision, cheapness, and confusion due to unregulated and completely apples and oranges market for all the "coating" stuff out there) to get OptiCoat Pro for $1200, but I am resisting. It does sound like a really good idea for wheels/calipers tho. But I am going to buy myself some time to just do the PPF/Tint for starters. I'll watch the vid after I get back.

[5pacey]

Update -

Ok, I lied, just watched the relevant bit...

Weel yes true it does look impressive. I think the towel turning technique is a big contributing factor to minimizing the sand paper effect too. That said, I am an uber sceptic when it comes to stuff so few observations below. The problem is this whole "coating" market/business is basically like "health"/"dietary" supplements. Very few credible apples-apples, and most people have a vested interest in showing whatever product they are showing in a positive light. Either because they are the manufacturer, or because they a reseller, or because they are a detailer who uses it. Not that they necessarily attempt fraud, but its really hard to remain not-biassed when you are convinced that what you have is the best thing since sliced bread or perforated toilet paper.

1. The guy sells this stuff so he is obviously motivated to show how great it is.
2. While the towel technique + the spray do appear to result in 0 new scratches/swirls this is not a "true" test for the following reasons
2.1 The dirt was spread loosely. "Normal" real life dirt is only partially loose, some of it sticks, so it won't just nicely leave the surface when nudged.
2.2 This was a single test. Real life would be multiple over a period of time. I get that nothing is perfect BUT... we are splitting hair here as is
2.3 Not sure I trust the lighting, but it did legitimately seem the same before and after.

BUT I do like your approach. I'd have to see if I can attain the performance level of 20 min though.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

BUT I do like your approach. I'd have to see if I can attain the performance level of 20 min though.

ha, well, there are many of these dirt & test videos and I believe these are legit detailers truly trying to see & show what works ... that said, it's always easier to understand when you have real world experience.

This vehicle is 3 years old and never had PPF, ceramic, or anything other than monthly (or more) waterless washes.



It was never washed at the dealership and it was an ED ... it also has significant "anger" mileage.

It has a *few* light scratches (that I could probably take out by hand) - but using my waterless wash w/ 1MF/panel method for years, I think the car looks great soooo... what do I need PPF or Ceramic for? That's my perennial question ...

I've been thinking about both year after year and finally decided for a car like this I just don't need it - a waterless wash & some SiO2 spray will keep any car looking great (and more/less scratch-free) forever ...

But my upcoming X5 will be a heavy roadtrip car through the mountains - a run I've already done 4x this year with a rental so I know what it's in for, and it's a lot of bugs & maybe some pitting (no rocks yet though!) So here I am again considering, should I PPF the front? I've more/less decided no. I'll just buy all new detailing stuff

* Rag Co MFs (and some costco MFs online) & new boar's hair brushes
* Turtle Wax's ceramic line (spray wax, 3-n-1 detailer)
* Colourlock's new-leather protector for the interior
* Citrol & rapid remover for bugs

Because I still have to maintain the car even if I PPF so I'm only really doing it for the rock chips, and that car above doesn't have a single one soooo ... why do it?

If I start getting rock dings, maybe I'll PPF later.