[5pacey]

So I got a quote from a local shop in VA, for full ceramic. They do XPEL too but don't want to do PPF, just full ceramic. They do few levels of Opticoat, but I don't know where does Opticoat stand relative to other brands, other than heard its better than XPEL ceramic.

1. Opticoat Pro - 5 yr warranty
2. Opticoat Pro Plus - 7 yr warranty, 2 coats.

They say it doesn't need yearly top-up coats, it will stay good for at least the warranty period. The better one (Plus) will give extra depth etc.

Any opinions on this? Experiences, analysis done? I haven't been able to find anything in the search.

[5pacey]

Here's an oldie but goodie. Very relevant thread & research with a healthy degree of critical eye @ the "coating" industry, including a funny review vid from Aussie land.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...t=Opticoat+Pro

[omasou]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

Here's an oldie but goodie. Very relevant thread & research with a healthy degree of critical eye @ the "coating" industry, including a funny review vid from Aussie land.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...t=Opticoat+Pro

I use Gyeon Pure and Gyeon Rim.

[nZtiZia]

can also recommend Gyeon. the amount of beading I still get after 8 months is just satisfying to watch

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by omasou

I use Gyeon Pure and Gyeon Rim.

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

can also recommend Gyeon. the amount of beading I still get after 8 months is just satisfying to watch

You guys are doing it yourselves sounds like? I am not going to be able to keep up w/that. Just knowing my reality, I may be able to make myself do it once, but it just won't happen again. I am also not that dedicated any more... was a lot more into it when I was single on my first two bimmers. Just too lazy now. Its a car for me, a cool one and I'd like it to sparkle after I go into a "brushless" carwash, but I am just not into screwing w/it for hours w/a Zymol applicator and jar of carnauba wax. As much as I like the coconut aroma and the effects for the next couple months.

Hence, I was hoping for a "miracle" solution ... i.e. a "ceramic" (lol) coating that lasts for years. I could even swallow the initial $ hit, within reason. Though PPF is insane IMO. I agree w/one poster I saw on some other thread who said if you have $6k to throw at a roll of saran wrap, get yourself a sidekick car like a Jeep instead that drives in front of you and picks up all the crap so it doesn't hit your car. Its not like the OEM paint+clear coat are made out of butter. My 2015 F15 never waxed once, washed by hand maybe once, no PPF or "ceramic" and still looks good after car wash and some Tire Shine. That said, if I could have more gloss/depth and possibly spray off the dirt w/a hose w/out leaving a moon scape of water spots after, I'd spring for a grand / grand and a half or therebauts - which is why the "ceramic" caught my eye.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

You guys are doing it yourselves sounds like? I am not going to be able to keep up w/that. Just knowing my reality, I may be able to make myself do it once, but it just won't happen again. I am also not that dedicated any more... was a lot more into it when I was single on my first two bimmers. Just too lazy now. Its a car for me, a cool one and I'd like it to sparkle after I go into a "brushless" carwash, but I am just not into screwing w/it for hours w/a Zymol applicator and jar of carnauba wax. As much as I like the coconut aroma and the effects for the next couple months.

Hence, I was hoping for a "miracle" solution ... i.e. a "ceramic" (lol) coating that lasts for years. I could even swallow the initial $ hit, within reason. Though PPF is insane IMO. I agree w/one poster I saw on some other thread who said if you have $6k to throw at a roll of saran wrap, get yourself a sidekick car like a Jeep instead that drives in front of you and picks up all the crap so it doesn't hit your car. Its not like the OEM paint+clear coat are made out of butter. My 2015 F15 never waxed once, washed by hand maybe once, no PPF or "ceramic" and still looks good after car wash and some Tire Shine. That said, if I could have more gloss/depth and possibly spray off the dirt w/a hose w/out leaving a moon scape of water spots after, I'd spring for a grand / grand and a half or therebauts - which is why the "ceramic" caught my eye.

I have a love hate relationship with PPF. If custom cut with minimal seams life is good. That is until the edges lift, and they will then dirt gets under and it starts to lift or a rock, branch, etc. hits and tears it. Plus I would recommend ceramic coating it b/c bugs stick to it. I when I do it I only do the front clip. But I'm not going to do it anymore.

[IMG]https://laurelberninteriors.com/wp-c...-slipcover.png[/IMG]

For ceramic, I bought a set of 763M rims prior to delivery and coated them before the tires were mounted. I drove the car home after delivery, washed it and used iron x, and prep all Gyeon products, then coated in the garage and let it sit for a few days. Wear a mask! I only drive that car in the summer and the coating has lasted 2 year/12,000 miles but recently I was keeping it outside and it seems to have failed like a light switch? I think something happened while I had someone working on it. Either way I was planning to reapply this winter anyway.

Don't buy all the BS about paint correction. If you have a reputable dealer they have detailers on staff and will polish the car. New paint doesn't need more 'correction' than that. My dealer also hand washes my car but I do know some dealers have automatic car washes. So they are not all the same.

This is the first time I tried ceramic, thought it was a bunch of hype. Now I'm a true believer.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

You guys are doing it yourselves sounds like?
[…]
Hence, I was hoping for a "miracle" solution ... i.e. a "ceramic" (lol) coating that lasts for years. I could even swallow the initial $ hit, within reason. Though PPF is insane IMO.

after initial ceramic coating by my detailer 8 months ago, I haven't done anything. I just purchased a bottle of Gyeon Quartz Cure Matte ceramic top coating mainly to support my detailer, and I plan to apply it before winter hits, but not that I need to since I still get excellent beading.

like you, I don't have time invested in frequent car care. between ppf and ceramic, it's the ceramic that will make your infrequent hand washes go quickly.

my ppf install was transformative (went from glossy to satin), but with BMW being 'soft', I would recommend at least front bumper and fenders, full hood and A pillars, but it's all relative to your travels really. the 2 months before ppf, I picked up several rock chips driving local only. while those were fixed, I didn't need paint correction because any factory defects were hidden under the satin ppf.

as a caveat, while these products may lower maintenance intervals and keep it looking 'better for longer', don't expect any ROI like some people do.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

after initial ceramic coating by my detailer 8 months ago, I haven't done anything. I just purchased a bottle of Gyeon Quartz Cure Matte ceramic top coating mainly to support my detailer, and I plan to apply it before winter hits, but not that I need to since I still get excellent beading.

like you, I don't have time invested in frequent car care. between ppf and ceramic, it's the ceramic that will make your infrequent hand washes go quickly.

my ppf install was transformative (went from glossy to satin), but with BMW being 'soft', I would recommend at least front bumper and fenders, full hood and A pillars, but it's all relative to your travels really. the 2 months before ppf, I picked up several rock chips driving local only. while those were fixed, I didn't need paint correction because any factory defects were hidden under the satin ppf.

as a caveat, while these products may lower maintenance intervals and keep it looking 'better for longer', don't expect any ROI like some people do.

Gyeon recommends regular application of Cure to maintain the coating, e.g. a sacrificial layer. Now they have developed a wax. Sort of funny b/c prior to this everyone said not to wax ceramic.

It may be a lot of work to coat the vehicle but that will be paid back in spades when washing. Especially, the wheels, I use soap and water now! If you apply the coating to a wheel, especially the barrel you can feel how rough the finish is which is where all the brake dust accumulates, when coated there's no more nooks and crannies or at least they are smoother and slicker. I cannot overstate how happy I am w/the coatings.

[yanger24]

I paid a shop to do opticoat on my last car. Close to $1000 about 4 years ago. It was ok.

For our X5, I did clay, paint correction, polish, then used Gtechniq panel wipe, crystal serum light, exo on top (sacrificial layer) and c2 monthly. Might be over kill but looks great. Car was new so minor prep.

Took me about 7 hours. Cost was about $200. Labor was free.

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by yanger24

I paid a shop to do opticoat on my last car. Close to $1000 about 4 years ago. It was ok.

For our X5, I did clay, paint correction, polish, then used Gtechniq panel wipe, crystal serum light, exo on top (sacrificial layer) and c2 monthly. Might be over kill but looks great. Car was new so minor prep.

Took me about 7 hours. Cost was about $200. Labor was free.

Soo... when you say "It was ok." could you elaborate? Doesn't sound like you were/are thrilled. Also, did it last? In theory, according to their warranty, it should still be protective now (If my memory serves, its 5 yr warranty, but it could be for a diff level treatment).

I am looking at $1299 for Opticoat Pro, or $1699 for Pro+. Wheels and calipers are extra. Not sure if glass is included. Elsewhere across several threads I've seen people mention that Opticoat Pro(+) has lasted for them. The other treatments mostly sound (from my googling) much shorter in lifespan and most require regulare re-applications at some level. Which sounds like a PITA especially if you are paying $$$ to begin with. If you do it yourself for $200,- or so, and then have to re-do it every few months thats reasonable.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by 5pacey

Soo... when you say "It was ok." could you elaborate? Doesn't sound like you were/are thrilled. Also, did it last? In theory, according to their warranty, it should still be protective now (If my memory serves, its 5 yr warranty, but it could be for a diff level treatment).

I am looking at $1299 for Opticoat Pro, or $1699 for Pro+. Wheels and calipers are extra. Not sure if glass is included. Elsewhere across several threads I've seen people mention that Opticoat Pro(+) has lasted for them. The other treatments mostly sound (from my googling) much shorter in lifespan and most require regulare re-applications at some level. Which sounds like a PITA especially if you are paying $$$ to begin with. If you do it yourself for $200,- or so, and then have to re-do it every few months thats reasonable.

He's referring to applying Gtechniq - C2 Liquid Crystal C2v3 monthly. Typically, products like this are used alone or in-addition to a coating to extend the coatings longevity. Some are designed to spray on while the car is still wet after rinsing to help avoid water spots.

https://www.autogeek.net/gtechniq-c2...d-crystal.html

Wow, people charge $1,200 to correct and apply a coating on new paint?

[omasou]

A lot of marketing but overall good content...

https://www.autogeek.net/detailingtips.html

[5pacey]

Originally Posted by omasou

He's referring to applying Gtechniq - C2 Liquid Crystal C2v3 monthly. Typically, products like this are used alone or in-addition to a coating to extend the coatings longevity. Some are designed to spray on while the car is still wet after rinsing to help avoid water spots.

https://www.autogeek.net/gtechniq-c2...d-crystal.html

Wow, people charge $1,200 to correct and apply a coating on new paint?

Thanks I'll have to read up.

Indeed... $1200 on a new car for the cheap package. $1700 for the good one. Then $400,- for wheels/calipers on top of that. $650,- for interior... That said, if it looks really good and really lasts 5 or 7 years w/out having to join the silly walks society for the duration, then maybe its not such a bad deal, at least for the exterior. I can do the interior or the wheels & calipers myself. Or, I am just a devolving 55 y/o toddler and the ice-cream truck just turned the corner on my street, not 100% sure.

[dananelson1]

For a new a week or two old X5, what would you guys recommend for DYI coatings? It seems the Gtechniq OR Gyeon products are top rated. But the product line and packages direct or on Amazon are vast.....
Thoughts on starter process.....

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dananelson1

For a new a week or two old X5, what would you guys recommend for DYI coatings? It seems the Gtechniq OR Gyeon products are top rated. But the product line and packages direct or on Amazon are vast.....
Thoughts on starter process.....

It depends on how you're going to maintain it. Bottom line is, ceramic or not you gotta maintain your vehicle or it won't look good.

Given that, if you want to make your maintenance life as fool-proof as possible (relatively!) then pro ceramic (assuming they don't make errors) can be a good choice ...

If YOU'RE going to be doing the maintenance then maybe you don't want a long-term ceramic at all since they can be tricky to apply and given you're washing every week or 2 anyway, you can just apply a sealant at that time.

gTechniq, CarPro, etc, they all make great stuff ... also Underdog & Ethos tests REALLY well ...

Personally I use a sealant every wash or two and I've been told it look better than spendy ceramic coatings by people with them

And there are durability / ease-of-application trade-offs ... for example:

* Turtle Wax Flex Wax: easy to apply, can be applied to everything (glass, trim, perspex, etc), but not a long lasting sealant (2-3 months, though some get up to 12) - though if you're reapplying every few weeks then that doesn't matter.

* TW Seal & Shine: much more durable, but a bit harder to apply

* Ethos Resist: Might be even more durable w/o much difficulty to apply

* Consumer-grade coatings: super durable, 1-3 years, but might be hard to apply with a few risks

Personally I like easy & fool-proof, so I go with the easy stuff.

My 2 cents is, the 1,2,3 is:

(1.) A great microfiber for wash media
(2.) De-ionized water (from the grocery story or, say, CR Spotless)
(3.) A good spray-on Sealant

For people willing to wash every 2-3 weeks, everything after that has greatly diminishing returns, some risks (ceramic screwups need to be polished out) unless you get a lot of sand-blasting / pitting in which case you need PPF.

[dananelson1]

Living in a SFH, I have easy access to wash my car, and generally enjoy doing it every few weeks. So, based on the above, perhaps a ceramic coating would not be best? I got a quote for over $2000 for a professional Ceramic Pro - I am NOT likely to do that. He said he just spend 12 hours on Paint Correction on a new car he did – really? That seems crazy. We’re not restoring a historic Rembrandt here. I am toying with doing a basic quality ceramic coating myself.

We do a lot of mountain driving, which creates lots of winter grime on the car (I’m NOT likely to do PPF either – too pricey), so my hope is to help protect the paint and make the washing process easier + make the 45e SHINE!

Perhaps given my bimonthly hand washing, I should use a spray on sealant...such as the Turtle Wax product OR "The Last Coat" (which i've heard about); or Mothers, Meguires, etc. The "Ethos" product looks really good too...I went down the rabbit hole of viewing: Ethos Graphene Coating - Revolutionary Detailing Technology (ethoscarcare.com)

I clearly need some new and more microfiber towels, and perhaps a power washer. Then proper spray on sealants like some of the above….
Good?

Originally Posted by GrussGott

It depends on how you're going to maintain it. Bottom line is, ceramic or not you gotta maintain your vehicle or it won't look good.

Given that, if you want to make your maintenance life as fool-proof as possible (relatively!) then pro ceramic (assuming they don't make errors) can be a good choice ...

If YOU'RE going to be doing the maintenance then maybe you don't want a long-term ceramic at all since they can be tricky to apply and given you're washing every week or 2 anyway, you can just apply a sealant at that time.

gTechniq, CarPro, etc, they all make great stuff ... also Underdog & Ethos tests REALLY well ...

Personally I use a sealant every wash or two and I've been told it look better than spendy ceramic coatings by people with them

And there are durability / ease-of-application trade-offs ... for example:

* Turtle Wax Flex Wax: easy to apply, can be applied to everything (glass, trim, perspex, etc), but not a long lasting sealant (2-3 months, though some get up to 12) - though if you're reapplying every few weeks then that doesn't matter.

* TW Seal & Shine: much more durable, but a bit harder to apply

* Ethos Resist: Might be even more durable w/o much difficulty to apply

* Consumer-grade coatings: super durable, 1-3 years, but might be hard to apply with a few risks

Personally I like easy & fool-proof, so I go with the easy stuff.

My 2 cents is, the 1,2,3 is:

(1.) A great microfiber for wash media
(2.) De-ionized water (from the grocery story or, say, CR Spotless)
(3.) A good spray-on Sealant

For people willing to wash every 2-3 weeks, everything after that has greatly diminishing returns, some risks (ceramic screwups need to be polished out) unless you get a lot of sand-blasting / pitting in which case you need PPF.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dananelson1

I have easy access to wash my car, and generally enjoy doing it

I am toying with doing a basic quality ceramic coating myself.

We do a lot of mountain driving, which creates lots of winter grime on the car

I clearly need some new and more microfiber towels, and perhaps a power washer. Then proper spray on sealants like some of the above….
Good?

In my experience, a well maintained vehicle that gets a sealant every wash or 2 = pro ceramic

<---------------> Nerd Points Time Out <--------------->
Nerd points:
a) No, I'm not saying a water-based sealant = resin-based ceramic in terms of long-term durability
b) No, I'm not saying an uncorrected car will look = to a corrected car *under close inspection*

Rather, in both cases, I'm saying most all people can't tell the difference so the value in pro ceramics for most is generally knowing you have it vs seeing you have it
<---------------> Nerd Points Time Out <--------------->

In general there are 3 conditions to manage:

(1.) Normal dirt & dust
(2.) Road film
(3.) Rock chips not large enough for comp insurance, but big enough to bother you

The first is manageable with good routine wash technique, the 3rd with PPF if you get a lot of that. (In MN I did, in CA I don't, so I don't have PPF)

It's #2 that gets most people; Road Film comes from driving on wet roads and having your car get splashed with everything that leaks from ICE vehicles: oil, transmission fluid, coolant, etc + dirt, salt, other chemicals. The challenge is, the Road Film adheres to your paint and then dirt adheres to that. And PPF, ceramic, don't matter - Road Film attaches to them all.

Then you'll see people with $10k worth of PPF & ceramic foam cannon & 2-bucket the Road Film, clean off the dirt and think it's gone ... only suddenly they start noticing dust sticks to their car like glue so ceramic sucks! Actually what's happened is, the wash (probably with pH neutral soap) abrated out the dirt particles suspended in the Road Film, but because the film is oily and pH neutral soap doesn't scare Road Film, the oil just got pushed around but it's still there.

The only way to remove Road Film is with a degreaser. It can be an all purpose cleaner (APC) like super clean or purple power or whatever (I like Superior Products' Road Warrior which is available at O'Reilly's, and Fire Power is great for wheels/tires when a stronger cleaner isn't needed - both are cheap as chips by the gallon).

Pointing this out just to say, if you've got Road Film type grime you'll have to shift techniques: e.g., An initial spray down (ideally w/ de-i water), then the APC spray & dwell, then a wash, then an assess. If you still get dirt coming up from a white MF w/ RW on it, then you'll have to do another round. And again, this would be whether you have ceramic or not. Once it's clean, then you'd spray-seal if that's your custom.

And then there's drying - if your wash process involves a towel dry you'll want a drying aide, i.e., something to provide lubrication so you don't scratch your paint while drying. This is the place most micro-marring comes from: people had a nice lubricated soapy wash, but not all the dirt was captured & now they're dragging a dry rag over their paint, pulling up dirt, but there's no lubrication so they scratch the paint.

So, blahblahblah, what's the easy path for maintenance washes?

Well, for me, it's a modified combo of everything:

(1.) Pre-power spray down with de-i water
(2.) Pre-spray the target wash panel with McKee's RW 2x strength
(3.) 1/4 MF max per panel, top-to-bottom, L to R; x# of passes until clean
(4.) Spray a wet-use sealant as the drying aide & buff dry
(5.) If there's bugs, tar, etc I spot treat it at this point with a bug sponge and/or citrol

If there's tons of road grime then depending on how well the pre-spray works I'll add a spray down of Road Warrior (they have stronger ones like Dark Fury but use with caution & their Fire Power is a great APC)

The general steps are:

* Wheels & tires, more/less same as below except Fire Power first and if that doesn't work, P&S Brake Buster
---------
* Pre-rinse & assess
* "chemical" wash (can be spraying on rinseless wash or road warrior or both)
* Contact wash (I use rinseless wash + 1/4 or 1/8 MF / panel)
* Drying aide / sealant
* Spot clean any tricky spots

I've adapted my home process to be mostly the same as my on-the-road process to keep things easy.

I can do the whole vehicle in ~20min not incl wheels/tires which take another 20 to do well, but usually they spray off so I only do that every month or 2. I like spray sealants that can put on anything because they're fast, easy, & fool-proof and I've integrated them into my process so they don't add any additional time.


Is pro ceramic more durable? Yes. Do you care? I don't, because I seal just about every wash and I don't like the inflexibility of it, not to mention the time & special needs of it. Juice isn't worth the squeeze IMO (though, to be fair, there are some intermediate SiO2s I'm tempted by)

As for The Last Coat, I don't have any direct experience, but it hasn't tested well from what I've seen ... Ethos Resist and TW Seal & Shine seem to sit on top for durability but S&S can be a little streaky so Flex Wax works for me just because it requires nothing special and I can use it every wash.

[dananelson1]

Fantastic - you get the def earn the crown for detailed posts! If you find yourself in Lafayette - and want to wash your car - pop over to me casa.

Originally Posted by GrussGott

In my experience, a well maintained vehicle that gets a sealant every wash or 2 = pro ceramic

<---------------> Nerd Points Time Out <--------------->
Nerd points:
a) No, I'm not saying a water-based sealant = resin-based ceramic in terms of long-term durability
b) No, I'm not saying an uncorrected car will look = to a corrected car *under close inspection*

Rather, in both cases, I'm saying most all people can't tell the difference so the value in pro ceramics for most is generally knowing you have it vs seeing you have it
<---------------> Nerd Points Time Out <--------------->

In general there are 3 conditions to manage:

(1.) Normal dirt & dust
(2.) Road film
(3.) Rock chips not large enough for comp insurance, but big enough to bother you

The first is manageable with good routine wash technique, the 3rd with PPF if you get a lot of that. (In MN I did, in CA I don't, so I don't have PPF)

It's #2 that gets most people; Road Film comes from driving on wet roads and having your car get splashed with everything that leaks from ICE vehicles: oil, transmission fluid, coolant, etc + dirt, salt, other chemicals. The challenge is, the Road Film adheres to your paint and then dirt adheres to that. And PPF, ceramic, don't matter - Road Film attaches to them all.

Then you'll see people with $10k worth of PPF & ceramic foam cannon & 2-bucket the Road Film, clean off the dirt and think it's gone ... only suddenly they start noticing dust sticks to their car like glue so ceramic sucks! Actually what's happened is, the wash (probably with pH neutral soap) abrated out the dirt particles suspended in the Road Film, but because the film is oily and pH neutral soap doesn't scare Road Film, the oil just got pushed around but it's still there.

The only way to remove Road Film is with a degreaser. It can be an all purpose cleaner (APC) like super clean or purple power or whatever (I like Superior Products' Road Warrior which is available at O'Reilly's, and Fire Power is great for wheels/tires when a stronger cleaner isn't needed - both are cheap as chips by the gallon).

Pointing this out just to say, if you've got Road Film type grime you'll have to shift techniques: e.g., An initial spray down (ideally w/ de-i water), then the APC spray & dwell, then a wash, then an assess. If you still get dirt coming up from a white MF w/ RW on it, then you'll have to do another round. And again, this would be whether you have ceramic or not. Once it's clean, then you'd spray-seal if that's your custom.

And then there's drying - if your wash process involves a towel dry you'll want a drying aide, i.e., something to provide lubrication so you don't scratch your paint while drying. This is the place most micro-marring comes from: people had a nice lubricated soapy wash, but not all the dirt was captured & now they're dragging a dry rag over their paint, pulling up dirt, but there's no lubrication so they scratch the paint.

So, blahblahblah, what's the easy path for maintenance washes?

Well, for me, it's a modified combo of everything:

(1.) Pre-power spray down with de-i water
(2.) Pre-spray the target wash panel with McKee's RW 2x strength
(3.) 1/4 MF max per panel, top-to-bottom, L to R; x# of passes until clean
(4.) Spray a wet-use sealant as the drying aide & buff dry
(5.) If there's bugs, tar, etc I spot treat it at this point with a bug sponge and/or citrol

If there's tons of road grime then depending on how well the pre-spray works I'll add a spray down of Road Warrior (they have stronger ones like Dark Fury but use with caution & their Fire Power is a great APC)

The general steps are:

* Wheels & tires, more/less same as below except Fire Power first and if that doesn't work, P&S Brake Buster
---------
* Pre-rinse & assess
* "chemical" wash (can be spraying on rinseless wash or road warrior or both)
* Contact wash (I use rinseless wash + 1/4 or 1/8 MF / panel)
* Drying aide / sealant
* Spot clean any tricky spots

I've adapted my home process to be mostly the same as my on-the-road process to keep things easy.

I can do the whole vehicle in ~20min not incl wheels/tires which take another 20 to do well, but usually they spray off so I only do that every month or 2. I like spray sealants that can put on anything because they're fast, easy, & fool-proof and I've integrated them into my process so they don't add any additional time.


Is pro ceramic more durable? Yes. Do you care? I don't, because I seal just about every wash and I don't like the inflexibility of it, not to mention the time & special needs of it. Juice isn't worth the squeeze IMO (though, to be fair, there are some intermediate SiO2s I'm tempted by)

As for The Last Coat, I don't have any direct experience, but it hasn't tested well from what I've seen ... Ethos Resist and TW Seal & Shine seem to sit on top for durability but S&S can be a little streaky so Flex Wax works for me just because it requires nothing special and I can use it every wash.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dananelson1

Fantastic - you get the def earn the crown for detailed posts! If you find yourself in Lafayette - and want to wash your car - pop over to me casa.

well, I got into detailing about 15 years ago, back when you had to special order foam canon parts from industrial cleaning supply companies and air freight Menzerna polish from Germany. But that was also in MN so I needed a rinseless wash solution and had to get that from RV supply shops.

Then I moved to a condo in CA and decided to have it done but ... it was never done right so I had come up with a way to do a non-marring wash in a parking garage without much water.

Over all of that time i've considered PPF & ceramic over & over - probably the biggest barrier is I don't trust anyone to polish my car (well a few guys I do, but they're $10k). This isn't a factor for most people because they won't see the oopsies, or they won't spot the edge of their PPF coming up. That would drive me


And in California I've had Jerez Black & Tanz cars, both driven hard in anger , both have made multiple trips to LA/OC and thousands of mountain miles and neither of them have had any appreciable rock chips / dings. In fact a Moonstone car I had, had more chips from Europe than it ever got in California, including one roof chip it got 40 min outside of the Welt

My 3 year old Tanz, no PPF, no ceramic, only ever rinseless washed by me - I'd challenge anyone to find more than 2 rock chips on it (or any swirls!):



Here's the front end of my 3 year old Moonstone M4 with some bug splatter (no ppf or ceramic), but anyone see any significant rock chips?



In MN I drove freeways all the time and you can hear the winter sand pelt the car 6 months / year. Yeah, you need PPF there if you care. And ceramic will help fight off winter chemical Road Film all season long, maybe for years; whereas a fall applied water-based sealant will fail in 1-2 months (but surprisingly Seal & Shine will get you 3-6 months!) so if you can't reapply due to weather, a pro or prosumer ceramic is good.


But for Sun states and/or places that don't freeze solid for months?

One can't argue it's safer to wear helmet every time you leave the house ... so why not do it?

More important IMO: Colourlock leather shield.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dananelson1

We do a lot of mountain driving, which creates lots of winter grime on the car (I’m NOT likely to do PPF either – too pricey), so my hope is to help protect the paint and make the washing process easier + make the 45e SHINE!

Just to add to this FWIW, Chelsea does a X6M paint prep & polish ("correction") for coating.

Key points are:

* She details the full coating prep process
* The car is swirled to shit, i.e., not new
* She uses some heavy duty road film remover (Dark Fury)
* The polish process takes 6 hours (though it's not perfect, but it's SO not new!)
* Ceramic coatings are great for snow states to resist road chemicals & road film which will break down sealants in 2-3 months depending on use
* TW Seal & Shine is the benchmark for a durable sealant that's not coating strength
* McKee's 37 Hydro Blue Pro is a literal spray & immediate rinse coating - it's not gonna be super durable but it's super easy to apply if you need a fast option

[sonjack]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

after initial ceramic coating by my detailer 8 months ago, I haven't done anything. I just purchased a bottle of Gyeon Quartz Cure Matte ceramic top coating mainly to support my detailer, and I plan to apply it before winter hits, but not that I need to since I still get excellent beading.

like you, I don't have time invested in frequent car care. between ppf and ceramic, it's the ceramic that will make your infrequent hand washes go quickly.

my ppf install was transformative (went from glossy to satin), but with BMW being 'soft', I would recommend at least front bumper and fenders, full hood and A pillars, but it's all relative to your travels really. the 2 months before ppf, I picked up several rock chips driving local only. while those were fixed, I didn't need paint correction because any factory defects were hidden under the satin ppf.

as a caveat, while these products may lower maintenance intervals and keep it looking 'better for longer', don't expect any ROI like some people do.

Would you be able to post a picture of the satin PPF? I am curious about the look it creates and before and after. I have done PPF on a Range Rover and did not do PPF. What color is your car? I will have Black Metallic…thanks

[Silver64]

Originally Posted by sonjack

Would you be able to post a picture of the satin PPF? I am curious about the look it creates and before and after. I have done PPF on a Range Rover and did not do PPF. What color is your car? I will have Black Metallic…thanks

Look at nZtiZia garage in his profile… his X5 looks freaking awesome!!!