[cmyx6go]

I just got my gas bill (natural gas). My usage this month was 4 therms less than last year same month so lets call the usage the same. The bill was $65 more which comes to about a 20% increase. I’m curious what people in other areas of the country are seeing. I am fortunate that I can scratch my head and just write the check. A 20% increase to others less fortunate is huge. I have gas heat, oven and dryer. I’m curious how high my electric will go come summer with the A/C. I really feel for families trying to make ends meet.

[M_Six]

Our gas bill (furnaces only) is a little higher than I remember it being last year. Our electric bill is about the same. If it's a bit higher it's because we've added some devices that account for the extra. But like you, we just pay it and move on. The increase is minor in the grand scheme of things. Once the furnaces are no longer needed, we pay just the service charge each month, which is like $25. So over the course of a year, our gas bill is pretty small. Our electric bill is always about $100-$150/mo lower between the furnaces going quiet and the a/c cranking up. The a/c cost in the warmer months depends on how hot the weather is, of course. Some months it's not bad.

I hear you about the families that are living paycheck to paycheck. Between the rising food costs, gasoline costs, and utilities, a lot of folks are getting hit hard.

[TiMSport]

Compared bills between February of this year to one year ago and saw very little change. I don't know exactly what it breaks down to but maybe about 10 cents/therm? Can't complain. I think the key is always how much you're paying per therm to your natural gas provider. I usually lock in a fixed rate for 12 months.

[vreihen16]

The talking heads on NYC TV have been reporting people receiving ConEd bills that were tripled over normal, with complaints to Albany for a state investigation about spot market energy pricing.....

[nyalpine90]

no natural gas by me
oil & electric
$ per gal has gone up.

[Tommy-G]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

I just got my gas bill (natural gas). My usage this month was 4 therms less than last year same month so lets call the usage the same. The bill was $65 more which comes to about a 20% increase. I’m curious what people in other areas of the country are seeing. I am fortunate that I can scratch my head and just write the check. A 20% increase to others less fortunate is huge. I have gas heat, oven and dryer. I’m curious how high my electric will go come summer with the A/C. I really feel for families trying to make ends meet.

You know what bothers me the most about that? I look at it like thats one less really nice weekend lunch/brunch that I won't have.

[2000cs]

Your natural gas LDC (local distn co) likely does not own any gas supply, or storage. It buys from pipelines to meet supply. How it buys is regulated by the state utility commission, and different states allow different approaches.

For winter, the LDC has a weather forecast and an estimate of demand based on history and known changes (new housing, etc). They buy gas to meet that demand. If the demand comes in short, then they have excess gas to sell back or they pay but don’t take delivery, which becomes an added cost. The regulator may not allow that extra cost (depends on the state); if that is the case the utility will not buy to forecast but will buy a bit short.

When the delivery day happens, and actual weather etc is known, the gas company will buy or sell in the spot market to match demand with supply. This is a very liquid market and not subject to manipulation, but easy for politicians to blame. On a very cold day, there is demand for home heating and demand for electric production (which is nat gas fueled on the margin). So there is high spot demand, normal supply, and the price spikes. I’ve seen 5-6x normal market prices on high demand days.

So in winter this can happen a lot, especially if there is a polar vortex or bomb cyclone weather event, which was not predicted, or if cold is deeper or more persistent that expected, or covers a broader region. In the Northeast USA, there is little supply and customers (LDCs and their customers) are at the edge of the nat gas network of pipes, so the price movements can be exacerbated relative to the broader markets.

Since the LDC doesn’t own any gas, what it pays for the gas it delivers is what gets passed on. Extreme weather means extreme volumes and high prices so that’s what you see.

In other regions, like KY for example, there is ample supply from fracking regions to the NE and the Gulf to the S, so prices don’t move as severely. But the same basic forces still move prices significantly.

Note that electricity in winter moves similarly since gas is the fuel on the margin for most electric utilities/markets in the USA. But there are some different dynamics in the electricity markets that are for another post.

[Run Silent]

So I've got electric aircon and gas heat - but I also have onsite hydroelectric power and an onsite corn furnace. I can't 'merge' the two at the home, I need to flip 100% between one or the other - and the hydro won't run all the electricity at the home, which causes problems. In the late fall or early spring - I will flip to hydro during the evenings and overnights, since it can handle the low loads. The corn furnace is super cheap to run, but it's a pain to get the corn delivered since I don't have a truck.

My gas bill has certainly gone up - but it's typically pretty small - runs about $120/mo in the dead of winter. I can heat the home with the CF for about a quarter of that, though.

===

If I run full connected electric and and gas - my winter utility bill runs about $240. If I run 100% onsite power, I can get it down to the price of the corn - which is about $30/mo.

[rcracin]

Got this email from coned passing the buck. What else is new?

[2000cs]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

So I've got electric aircon and gas heat - but I also have onsite hydroelectric power and an onsite corn furnace. I can't 'merge' the two at the home, I need to flip 100% between one or the other - and the hydro won't run all the electricity at the home, which causes problems. In the late fall or early spring - I will flip to hydro during the evenings and overnights, since it can handle the low loads. The corn furnace is super cheap to run, but it's a pain to get the corn delivered since I don't have a truck.

My gas bill has certainly gone up - but it's typically pretty small - runs about $120/mo in the dead of winter. I can heat the home with the CF for about a quarter of that, though.

===

If I run full connected electric and and gas - my winter utility bill runs about $240. If I run 100% onsite power, I can get it down to the price of the corn - which is about $30/mo.

I think you could merge the hydro. You likely have an inverter (DC to AC) already, just need to sync to utility cycle and have a back feed preventer or net metering setup if allowed where you are. Stuff that a good solar install would include. Could also feed the hydro elec into a battery bank, then use an inverter to AC and sync, etc.

[2000cs]

Originally Posted by rcracin

Got this email from coned passing the buck. What else is new?

Not passing the buck at all. That’s how it is done, especially when they were deregulated and required to shut down (coal) or sell their generators. They buy and distribute electricity. They have to pay the price in the market for it. They can buy forward based on the forecasts and fill in to match actual demand from spot, but it costs what it costs.

Oil is up, nat gas is up so elect is up. Add demand spikes and you get some pretty high, temp pricing.

I’m no fan of ConEd but they’re doing what the NY regulator requires.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

I think you could merge the hydro. You likely have an inverter (DC to AC) already, just need to sync to utility cycle and have a back feed preventer or net metering setup if allowed where you are. Stuff that a good solar install would include. Could also feed the hydro elec into a battery bank, then use an inverter to AC and sync, etc.

Yeah - I've spent a little time looking into this, but have struggled to justify upfront costs.

The battery bank was a consideration, originally when we bought the i8, but again, upfront costs held us back. Now - the wait for an install in my area is nearly a year due to labor and supply shortages, so not something we are considering until supply/demand curves normalize.

Thanks for the inputs though - I will circle back and look again

[OkieSnuffBox]

Talk to the folks from Texas about the bills they saw last year during the massive wintry storm. Our heat stayed on in Oklahoma (gas heat and water heater here), but still a huge spike in prices.

The legislature passed a bill to let them spread the cost out over something like 20 years so people wouldn't see the huge spikes in bills.

Other than that, I couldn't tell you. I have the electric and gas on the average monthly plans to keep budgeting easier. We can go from a $40 electric bill in January to a $275 bill in August. High ceilings plus it never gets below 80° at night means the AC runs like 22-23 hours a day from July-September.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

The corn furnace is super cheap to run, but it's a pain to get the corn delivered since I don't have a truck.

Where there's a will there's a way. Go get ya some corn...

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Where there's a will there's a way. Go get ya some corn...

haha nice. weight is really the issue though, standard shipment weighs 3,500lbs. lol

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

haha nice. weight is really the issue though, standard shipment weighs 3,500lbs. lol

Man, I dont know how you live in TN and dont have a pickup.

Seriously though, go grab yourself an old beater truck. You'll be amazed at how often you use it.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Man, I dont know how you live in TN and dont have a pickup.

Seriously though, go grab yourself an old beater truck. You'll be amazed at how often you use it.

Well - I have two 2022 Bronco's on order - so whenever those arrive, I'll have something.

The way it's tracking these days - that'll be around 2040 or so.

[HighlandPete]

UK increasing energy costs are really making an impact on family budgets. Some seeing up to about 50% increase in gas and electric bills.

My electricity bills have gone up this few months and more to come in a couple of months.

[cmyx6go]

2000cs Thank you for the cost of supply info. I'm not questioning why everything costs more, that will only take us down the rabbit hole and have the thread closed.

Like I said in the first post, I really feel bad for those on a budget. I just filled my tank at $4.29/gal for super. That is up $0.20/gal from last week. $70 and I wasn't even empty. I can't even imagine the cost in CA.

[zx10guy]

It's tough for me to measure any cost differences as the temperature in my region seems to be colder than last year. I've replaced my entire HVAC system in my primary house. While it's not the most energy efficient unit I could buy today, it's certainly better than the old unit which was 20 years old and original to my house. I also upgraded both the compressor and the furnace. The A/C compressor went from a 4 ton to a 5 ton unit. The furnace went from a 75,000BTU to a 130,000BTU unit. Along with the upgrade in the furnace came the size of the blower. My bills so far has gone up from last year but a lot of this has to do with the colder temps and my decision to keep my house warmer this season.

While my primary home is on electric and natural gas, my vacation home is on propane. I've definitely seen a jump in my heating bills. The odd thing with propane is you can lock in your per gallon rate before the heating season or gamble and let it float. I forgot this heating season to lock in early and got stuck with a higher rate. My per gallon cost went from $2.24 to $3.29 per gallon. My last bill was for $149 which was for me being out there maybe a couple of weekends during the billing period keeping the home at 74 degrees and when I'm not there at 56 degrees. House is an Energy Star certified home which means a lot of additional energy savings stuff went into building the home to include a high efficiency propane furnace.

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

While my primary home is on electric and natural gas, my vacation home is on propane. I've definitely seen a jump in my heating bills. The odd thing with propane is you can lock in your per gallon rate before the heating season or gamble and let it float. I forgot this heating season to lock in early and got stuck with a higher rate. My per gallon cost went from $2.24 to $3.29 per gallon. My last bill was for $149 which was for me being out there maybe a couple of weekends during the billing period keeping the home at 74 degrees and when I'm not there at 56 degrees. House is an Energy Star certified home which means a lot of additional energy savings stuff went into building the home to include a high efficiency propane furnace.

I just got the bill for propane at our PA property. It was $2.599, which is up about $0.10 from the last delivery. I checked the EIA.GOV website and it is showing $3.027 average residential cost for PA.

[bucketfoot]

I know that here in Colorado some of the utility companies had the approval to raise prices last year, but did not due to the economic conditions at the time.

I believe these were to be phased over a couple of years. Now it sounds like the increase in 2022 will include both the planned increases from 2021 & 2022.

So it could be something similar to this.