[tranquility]

Anyone underwhelmed by the finale? What was it all for? I suppose that ill deeds get punished in the end but both Kim and Jimmy did it to themselves, subconsciously wanting to get caught. Then that talk Jimmy had w Mike, painting him as only about the money, really?

I thought that Walter White died in BB, so now the present time is him sharing a cell w Jimmy? Wonder what was his business where he got scammed out of?

So Jimmy goes through this whole masterful thing to plea down to 7.5 years or whatever and then he grows a conscience when finding out about what Kim did? Also, wth w Kim doing all that, leaving Jimmy to get banged by some other loser and taking on a new life, throwing away her licence, and in the end she gets it back.

I dunno, I thought their choices were illogical and didn't make much sense.

[DieselDiner]

The finale was very good, but the viewer had to be clued into what the writers were doing, and sometimes it might not have been obvious. One small example: "I thought that Walter White died in BB, so now the present time is him sharing a cell w Jimmy? Wonder what was his business where he got scammed out of?"

The scene with Walter and Jimmy together was a flashback when both of them were holed up in the basement of the vacuum shop awaiting their respective rides to their 'new life' that had been arranged by the 'vacuum shop owner'. At this point both were on the run.

I'm not even going to try to explain the meaning of this and the other 2 flashbacks other than to comment that each one gave the viewer insight into Jimmy's state of mind and his reaction to the responses of the other character.

What was his (Walter's) business that he got scammed out of? In Breaking Bad, Walter's entire journey was tied up in his resentment over losing the business he began with his two college friends (who ultimately married each other, another betrayal in Walt's eyes); they became very wealthy, he became a high school teacher and seethed in his resentment.

The finale was masterful and powerful, but the viewer had to understand what was going on. Much deep subtext.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by DieselDiner

The finale was very good, but the viewer had to be clued into what the writers were doing, and sometimes it might not have been obvious. One small example: "I thought that Walter White died in BB, so now the present time is him sharing a cell w Jimmy? Wonder what was his business where he got scammed out of?"

The scene with Walter and Jimmy together was a flashback when both of them were holed up in the basement of the vacuum shop awaiting their respective rides to their 'new life' that had been arranged by the 'vacuum shop owner'. At this point both were on the run.

I'm not even going to try to explain the meaning of this and the other 2 flashbacks other than to comment that each one gave the viewer insight into Jimmy's state of mind and his reaction to the responses of the other character.

What was his (Walter's) business that he got scammed out of? In Breaking Bad, Walter's entire journey was tied up in his resentment over losing the business he began with his two college friends (who ultimately married each other, another betrayal in Walt's eyes); they became very wealthy, he became a high school teacher and seethed in his resentment.

The finale was masterful and powerful, but the viewer had to understand what was going on. Much deep subtext.

Tx for your explanation, I really forgot that part from BB (Jimmy & Walter being holed up). I still don't get Jimmy's and Kim's behavior, esp after Howard's death, it's very contradictory and illogical at times...but I guess that's what it means to be human.

[DieselDiner]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I still don't get Jimmy's and Kim's behavior, esp after Howard's death, it's very contradictory and illogical at times...but I guess that's what it means to be human.

That, to me, is what made the finale (among other things) such a strong finish. These characters (Jimmy and Kim) were not simply one note fictional characters - the writers wrote them to be complicated (like most humans really are) with conflicting emotions and motivations, and to have regrets for things they might have enjoyed doing that ultimately hurt others in many different ways. Both characters were made by the writers to come to terms with what they had done - the open question that the finale answered is what each of them chose to do to make amends for their actions. The final(ish) scene with Jimmy and Kim sharing the smoke and Kim leaving Jimmy at the prison allows the characters to reclaim each other but in a very subtle manner. Just an excellent way to write and perform the final act between those 2 characters.

[RickFLM4]

I found the finale to be a fitting end. Found in a dumpster, able to talk his way into a great deal (and almost out of it) only to give it up in the end in a spectacular and irreversible way.

He often showed signs of having a conscience only to usually ignore it. Until the end. Kim definitely had one but got wrapped up with Jimmy, so what she did was particularly fitting to try to wash herself of what happened to Howard.

I remain a little perplexed as to why they took things so far with Howard. I can understand both having hard feelings (both justified and some unjustified) towards him, but they went to extents that didn’t make a lot of sense. Maybe it was just part of the “Jimmy always takes things too far” theme.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by DieselDiner

That, to me, is what made the finale (among other things) such a strong finish. These characters (Jimmy and Kim) were not simply one note fictional characters - the writers wrote them to be complicated (like most humans really are) with conflicting emotions and motivations, and to have regrets for things they might have enjoyed doing that ultimately hurt others in many different ways. Both characters were made by the writers to come to terms with what they had done - the open question that the finale answered is what each of them chose to do to make amends for their actions. The final(ish) scene with Jimmy and Kim sharing the smoke and Kim leaving Jimmy at the prison allows the characters to reclaim each other but in a very subtle manner. Just an excellent way to write and perform the final act between those 2 characters.

I totally get that, but I didn't like the way they each atoned for their sins. To me, it goes way beyond the allowed human fallibility due to the extremes they each took, which is averred to below by Rick.

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

He often showed signs of having a conscience only to usually ignore it. Until the end. Kim definitely had one but got wrapped up with Jimmy, so what she did was particularly fitting to try to wash herself of what happened to Howard.

I remain a little perplexed as to why they took things so far with Howard. I can understand both having hard feelings (both justified and some unjustified) towards him, but they went to extents that didn’t make a lot of sense. Maybe it was just part of the “Jimmy always takes things too far” theme.

That's the thing re the whole Howard thing, Kim was actually the real driver and more aggro, even during the wake Kim again took it too far lying about seeing Howard snorting coke to the widow. The writers tried to make Kim even worse than Jimmy but the way they did it didn't convince *me*...I'm sure others thought it was masterful and that's totally fine, I just didn't buy into that. What Howard did to both Kim and Jimmy in the real professional world would only result in at most bad mouthing, but given it's these 2 and we're in TV land, sure they could and did get crazy, but nothing remotely close can be justified to do that to Howard, so that was already ridiculous from my pov. Secondly, both of them weren't even super-angry in the vehement 'must-get-him-at-all-costs-my-family-honor-depends-on-it' sense but they were just doing it for sh*ts and giggles....doing THAT to Howard for basically relatively nothing?

Kim gets herself disbarred and in the end miraculously gets her licence back...ok, fine, but why? I thought she wanted to punish herself for life?

So, that amongst many other things, I regret I don't buy the finale.

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Kim gets herself disbarred and in the end miraculously gets her licence back...ok, fine, but why? I thought she wanted to punish herself for life?

So, that amongst many other things, I regret I don't buy the finale.

Kim didn't get her license back, her physical state bar card didn't have an expiration date on it so she used it to get in to see him

She was by far my favorite character... someone who was basically good but was easily swayed into doing bad things... and liked it.

I was happy with the ending, and thought it was great showing them sharing one cigarette just like in their early days.

[FastFrog]

I can't say I disliked the ending, other than it being... the end of the show.
For some reason, its bittersweet taste reminded me of the one of The Shield (for those who remember), when Vic finally has to pay the price, not by his life, but with a long a soft sorta-death: in his case an office job, with a window literally standing closed above the streets he used to exist in.

[BMWILUVU]

I thought it was slow and petty leading up to the finale but that was what the idea was. Jimmy lived a life gradually devolving into petty lies, games, materialism, and selfishness even gravitating back to it when he should have been laying low and finally redeemed himself in the end in his sacrifice for Kim and provided some sense of justice imo. Its certainly not a supernova type of Walter White ending but there was some beauty in that BCS ending. Everybody gets theirs in the end.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by wrickem

Kim didn't get her license back, her physical state bar card didn't have an expiration date on it so she used it to get in to see him

Tx for that, so this leads me to ask why did do that? Just so that they don't have to be in the general visiting area and so they can cop a smoke together, to me it's kinda silly, and the relishing of their demise, didn't work for me, just like that cringey shooting gun gesture (first by Kim from way back and now Jimmy reciprocating).

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Tx for that, so this leads me to ask why did do that? Just so that they don't have to be in the general visiting area and so they can cop a smoke together, to me it's kinda silly, and the relishing of their demise, didn't work for me, just like that cringey shooting gun gesture (first by Kim from way back and now Jimmy reciprocating).

I'd think she did it so they could just be alone, it was very reminiscent of when they'd sneak off alone for a smoke in the early days at HHM.

Jimmy's finger-bang was pretty cringy. I was expecting Kim to return the gesture. When she didn't, I interoperated it as Kim saying without words that she wasn't interested in being bad with him anymore.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by wrickem

Jimmy's finger-bang was pretty cringy. I was expecting Kim to return the gesture. When she didn't, I interoperated it as Kim saying without words that she wasn't interested in being bad with him anymore.

I interpreted it differently, cuz as we all recall, she did it first to Jimmy at the end of a way back episode, so as to say 'look at me, I'm really a bad X (more than you even)' and that shocked Jimmy, so he was doing it back here to her saying he was too, and also cuz he 'one-upped' her in the crazy 'atonement game' as he definitely got the worse result. So, I didn't expect her to reciprocate back right away, just like when he got it from her the first time. Anyway, the whole thing's cringe and part of why I'm kinda underwhelmed w the whole thing.

[BMWILUVU]

I interpret the smoking scene and the gun salute as a way of a goodbye to her and their ole times. Jimmy does not seem very changed nor repentant but Kim's token return gun draw gesture shows she acknowledges and remembers but can't go back to that imo.