[BForbes]

Wow, they really softened it up. Its slower than the previous generation but faster though the corners. Wow, just wow. So the stock 135i will be LIGHTER, FASTER, and produce more POWER. Yiiikes. The only question is what will handle better. Too bad no LSD for the 1. I'm sure the 135i will be up to the daily commute.

0-60- 5.0seconds
1/4 mile- 13.8@102

295hp@6500
300lbtorque@4400
curb weight(3500est)

WHAT DO YOU THINK??

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothrea...67574#41967574

[1ster]

And that, kids, is yet another reason to get on your dealer's 1-Series waiting list early and often!

[ducati]

Damn. Totally disappointing.

"less communicative, larger, heavier, slower"

That was inevitable, I suppose. It's been known for a long time that weight went up significantly, but power did not. The writing was on the wall.

"You simply point the car where you want to go, and the various elements of the all wheel drive system make it happen."

That is not at all attractive sounding to me. A good comparison is the new Land Rovers (I know, not a performance car--but hang with me!). I have quite a few miles offroad, and have enjoyed various SWB Jeeps and a Land Rover Discovery. When the LR3 was first introduced, I decided to make the leap to the new T3 platform and give it a try. 4-wheel-independent suspension, very sophisticated air springs that act like a solid axle offroad, and a space-shuttle-like series of electronic goodies like locking diffs and all traction systems attached to a multi-spin wheel. You pick the terrain, the LR3 optimizes itself for it. Kinda like SI-Drive, but to the extreme.

Unfortunately, it turned off-roading from an active, intense participative sport to one of point and shoot.

Point and shoot is boring.

Now, I beat that LR3 offroad and it performed... Superbly. But driving is more than just performance numbers, ya know? It's feel. It's passion.

I just read a blurb in... Was it 0-60? Or the new Evo? Can't recall. Anyway, it was from Juan Pablo Montoya, and he was commenting on F1 vs. NASCAR. He got bored with F1... Loved NASCAR.

It is what it is... But...

Very Sad.

This is why I hedged my bet on the '07 STI... EVO X is out... '08 STI? Who knows... '08 135i? Maybe...

[imported_MPower]

As much as fanboys will dislike the supposedly softer Evo, Mitsu had to do it to improve sales. A car at that price bracket and segment needs to be more than a rocket. People buying cars in this segment probably cant afford two cars and need a daily driver which the Evo IX wasnt good at.

[vinazzurro]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

WHAT DO YOU THINK??

What do I think?

I think the STi will be faster than both the Evo and the 1er.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by ducati

Damn. Totally disappointing.

"less communicative, larger, heavier, slower"

That was inevitable, I suppose. It's been known for a long time that weight went up significantly, but power did not. The writing was on the wall.

"You simply point the car where you want to go, and the various elements of the all wheel drive system make it happen."

That is not at all attractive sounding to me. A good comparison is the new Land Rovers (I know, not a performance car--but hang with me!). I have quite a few miles offroad, and have enjoyed various SWB Jeeps and a Land Rover Discovery. When the LR3 was first introduced, I decided to make the leap to the new T3 platform and give it a try. 4-wheel-independent suspension, very sophisticated air springs that act like a solid axle offroad, and a space-shuttle-like series of electronic goodies like locking diffs and all traction systems attached to a multi-spin wheel. You pick the terrain, the LR3 optimizes itself for it. Kinda like SI-Drive, but to the extreme.

Unfortunately, it turned off-roading from an active, intense participative sport to one of point and shoot.

Point and shoot is boring.

Now, I beat that LR3 offroad and it performed... Superbly. But driving is more than just performance numbers, ya know? It's feel. It's passion.

I just read a blurb in... Was it 0-60? Or the new Evo? Can't recall. Anyway, it was from Juan Pablo Montoya, and he was commenting on F1 vs. NASCAR. He got bored with F1... Loved NASCAR.

It is what it is... But...

Very Sad.

This is why I hedged my bet on the '07 STI... EVO X is out... '08 STI? Who knows... '08 135i? Maybe...

I am in agreement. Point and Shoot can be pretty boring. And in regards to the Vinzarru, the new STI will be uglier than both also...

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

I am in agreement. Point and Shoot can be pretty boring. And in regards to the Vinzarru, the new STI will be uglier than both also...

I dont know, this looks pretty good to me:

[vinazzurro]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

I am in agreement. Point and Shoot can be pretty boring. And in regards to the Vinzarru, the new STI will be uglier than both also...

That's OK. Ugly is almost a tradition for Subaru.

Originally Posted by MPower

I dont know, this looks pretty good to me:

Looks pretty good in grey!

[kurichan]

Best looking picture I've ever seen of the STi.

But from a lower angle with the rear in view, the thing is still both ugly and boring. Usually a boring design is just mundane. This is the first example I can recall of combining boring and ugly in the same design...

[IvtecEM]

Originally Posted by vinazzurro

What do I think?

I think the STi will be faster than both the Evo and the 1er.

And it will look like a Hyundai too, still not a big fan of the Sti or current impreza wrx look, im sure it will be fast but the looks just does not do it for me.....

[mateo]

Its not how fast you go, but how well you go fast.

You cant compare the image of a Subaru to a BMW,,, so who cares. That subaru looks like it was designed by Kia anyways.

:roundel:

[vinazzurro]

Originally Posted by mateo

Its not how fast you go, but how well you go fast.

You cant compare the image of a Subaru to a BMW,,, so who cares. That subaru looks like it was designed by Kia anyways.

:roundel:

Some people care more about performance than "image."

Besides, a Subaru sure as hell doesn't look like a Kia in the rain/gravel/dirt/snow. Sure, it can't touch BMW's level of luxury, but I don't really think they're trying to. Each car has its niche.

[Maximus Decimus]

Not sure it makes sense to cast judgment on the Evo based on one review of a car that likely wasn't even broken in. I've seen this car in person and it has ALL the tools to be an incredibly performing car and thankfully, they've stepped up the interior. I like the alcantara on the dash on the prototype.

[ducati]

Maximus: to be certain, the new EVO looks the part. It's just that the (seemingly) inevitable upward march of size and weight inevitably hits us enthusiasts hard. It is difficult, even with modern technology, to manage that weight. That said, modern tires, brakes, powerplants, and other technological innovations (such as Mitsu's S-AYC) can certainly inject a large dose of performance AND fun.

It's just that curmudgeons like myself whose first cars weighed less than today's luxury-riddled econoboxes lament this upward trend in weight. It's somewhat reactionary, I admit, but it reached a new level of intensity when Subaru announced their new STI would be lighter than the one it replaced.

vinazzurro: indeed. I don't stare longingly at my STI in the garage, like I might an aircooled 911. Behind the wheel, though, I could care less what the damn thing looks like when that uneven backbeat of the boxer is stirred with the key... And the ridiculously explosive corner exits are visions in my head.

I wouldn't buy a BMW 135 because of the way it looked, in all honesty. I know some folks count that as a paramount item in their purchase; the main facade to their soul, so to speak. Fine by me. I'd buy a 135 because it would make me feel compelled to drive it, to hear that howl of the inline 6 one more time... Just one more errand, please, honey? The Scooby does that.

That's all I really care about.

[BForbes]

Maximus, the car had almost 3,000 miles on it. It weighs more than a 335i. I wouldnt be surprised if Mitsu watered it down in that aspect.

[Maximus Decimus]

Wow, more than a 335, that's downright shameful as I'm sure the 335 has more weight adding luxury crap so there's really no excuse. Do we know how much more?

Ducati and Onehots2k. Good points and completely agree. The trend is really disheartening. There are so many factors involved though, government regulations, competition between manufacturers as the majority of buyers (who are generally non-enthusiasts) demand/require all the techno bells and whistles. But you would think on a car like the Evo which is aimed squarely at enthusiasts, the focus would be sharpening the blade not appeasing the masses. Research must have shown they lost sales due to its features and comfort and blah blah blah. Oh well...

Still though, I'd be quite interested to see other tests. I know the E92 M3 got a lot of luke warm reviews initially, but lately more and more have been warming up to it. Every1 seems to be making compromises these days. BMW included. Again I say bring on a really raw M1!!!!!! That would :headbang:

[ducati]

Originally Posted by Maximus Decimus

But you would think on a car like the Evo which is aimed squarely at enthusiasts, the focus would be sharpening the blade not appeasing the masses. Research must have shown they lost sales due to its features and comfort and blah blah blah. Oh well...

Still though, I'd be quite interested to see other tests. I know the E92 M3 got a lot of luke warm reviews initially, but lately more and more have been warming up to it. Every1 seems to be making compromises these days. BMW included. Again I say bring on a really raw M1!!!!!! That would :headbang:

Well... I think a few things happened here. Firstly, both the EVO and the STI are based off a humdrum family sedan (or hatch, in the case of the new STI). Those humdrum family sedans obviously sell way more than the limited-production homologation specials, and drive the market for design, feature content, etc. Mitsu needs to hit a home run with the Lancer (base) to appeal to everyman, and it is designed as such. Obviously whatever it is that Mitsu added (dimensions and feature content, for sure, but hopefully starting with better crash protection!) caused the vehicle to gain a considerable amount of weight.

The cars aren't just designed with rally in mind, after all.

The STI is at a little bit of an advantage here, probably because Subaru's cars have been among the safest on the road for quite some time. Subaru has obviously cracked the crash-test nut, and doesn't need to add a whole bunch of weight to make it all work out nicely. We got lucky in that regard, as enthusiasts.

I'm with ya on the RAW and RAUCOUS M1. I *so* hope this will eventually happen--even if its a few years down the line. As it is, the 135 could be like a higher-powered RWD VW R32 "Gentleman's Express."

I don't want that, damnit. F power windows and frufru comforts, give me CF roof, plexi windows, and no sound deadening. I'm down to two small shots of espresso in the morning before work with the STI... With something more raucous and raw I might be able to do away with it entirely

[~AJ]

What has me excited about the 135i is the two-door body.

These days, if you want to go fast at a reasonable price, you will likely be driving a four-door car: IS350 (where's the coupe, Toyota?!), RX-8, RS4, Evo, STi, Neon SRT-4, etc. Yes, hot two-door coupes are out there, but at a hefty price: Cayman, Aston, 911, Corvette, etc.

BMW is one of the only manufacturers with a hot two-door coupe, rear drive, independent rear suspension (sorry Mustang), at under $40K. Someone is finally filling this niche!

-AJ

[~AJ]

Subaru and Mitsubishi might get my $$$ if they put all of their go-fast goodies into a two-door car instead of goofy looking 4-door sedans.

[321]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

WHAT DO YOU THINK??

The 135i might be better but there is going to be a 10 second evo X much sooner than there will be a 10 sec 1er...

Originally Posted by AJ~

Subaru and Mitsubishi might get my $$$ if they put all of their go-fast goodies into a two-door car instead of goofy looking 4-door sedans.

+1

[321]

Originally Posted by ducati

I don't want that, damnit. F power windows and frufru comforts, give me CF roof, plexi windows, and no sound deadening. I'm down to two small shots of espresso in the morning before work with the STI... With something more raucous and raw I might be able to do away with it entirely

:headbang::headbang:

Ding! Ding! Ding!
I want a car that i have to wear helmet and fire suit to go get groceries! :roundel:

[mateo]

Originally Posted by vinazzurro

Some people care more about performance than "image."

Besides, a Subaru sure as hell doesn't look like a Kia in the rain/gravel/dirt/snow. Sure, it can't touch BMW's level of luxury, but I don't really think they're trying to. Each car has its niche.

I agree. But good luck tuning the Subaru. They kick codes when you breath wrong. I'd get the new "10" instead.

-Mateo