[CamasM3e93]

"The Daimler-Chrysler merger went so well, we just couldn't think of a better way to replicate it than to merge with Nissan..." said soon to be ex-Honda CEO.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...-negotiations/

[Chihuahua]

I read this morning that this is all but a done deal with the merger completion slated for 2026.

[Sedoy]

I’m going to give them a billion dollar advice for free: if Nissan doesn’t realize they need to produce more appealing products for customers, ditch those horrible CVTs, and improve reliability, merging won’t help...

[gblansten]

I don't see the value proposition for Honda in this. For Nissan it's a duh. They need the help.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I don't see the value proposition for Honda in this. For Nissan it's a duh. They need the help.

Nissan is further ahead in development of Solid State Batteries, and they have good body on frame products. Those are the only reasons I can think.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Nissan is further ahead in development of Solid State Batteries, and they have good body on frame products. Those are the only reasons I can think.

Thanks. I am sure Honda may have additional reasons to do this. Just don't see this going well for them.

[M-technik-3]

So are they divorced from Renault yet?

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

So are they divorced from Renault yet?

They're still together but sleeping in separate rooms.

[alex2364]

What does Honda get out of this? More debt and a failing company?

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

So are they divorced from Renault yet?

I think Renault stake drops to 15%.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by alex2364

What does Honda get out of this? More debt and a failing company?

Take out some competition.

Hopefully, Honda can get rid of Mitsu or make another worthwhile EVO.

As far as Nissan goes, they either will make Nissans that people want or they will give it the axe. Maybe they will even rollback GT-R pricing as it has been beyond LOL for so long.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

Take out some competition.

Hopefully, Honda can get rid of Mitsu or make another worthwhile EVO.

As far as Nissan goes, they either will make Nissans that people want or they will give it the axe. Maybe they will even rollback GT-R pricing as it has been beyond LOL for so long.

I think Tesla and the major Chinese brands are their main competition.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I don't see the value proposition for Honda in this. For Nissan it's a duh. They need the help.

Maybe a way to get more manufacturing capacity on the cheap? Just a guess. I see no design or technology gain from the purchase.

[bosstones]

From what I've read, they're pursuing business integration, not a merger, and Mitsu is also involved in the talks. Under the integration, a new holding company is created as an umbrella over the existing companies. Each company still exists more or less independently but the holding company can have some effect on operations. Think Volkswagen Group.

In this case, Honda would reportedly get to nominate the majority of the board members for the holding group. I think this might make it easier for Honda to access IP from Nissan but doesn't directly saddle it with Nissan's debt.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by bosstones

From what I've read, they're pursuing business integration, not a merger, and Mitsu is also involved in the talks. Under the integration, a new holding company is created as an umbrella over the existing companies. Each company still exists more or less independently but the holding company can have some effect on operations. Think Volkswagen Group.

In this case, Honda would reportedly get to nominate the majority of the board members for the holding group. I think this might make it easier for Honda to access IP from Nissan but doesn't directly saddle it with Nissan's debt.

Volkswagen Group doesn't operate independently. They develop a TON of chassis, engine, and ancillary part components that are shared across all of their brands/models. The RD&D is for the most part allowed to happen in each manufacturer's on house, but even that is done with the constraints of the mother company (money, resources, etc).

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Maybe a way to get more manufacturing capacity on the cheap? Just a guess. I see no design or technology gain from the purchase.

Probably right with the production/manufacturing capacity increase, but also Nissan's development of solid state batteries (Honda has apparently not even started on this front)...and, it's a way for Honda to rebadge and have some mid and full size body on frame trucks in their lineup (whether they need that or not, who knows).

[bosstones]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Volkswagen Group doesn't operate independently. They develop a TON of chassis, engine, and ancillary part components that are shared across all of their brands/models. The RD&D is for the most part allowed to happen in each manufacturer's on house, but even that is done with the constraints of the mother company (money, resources, etc).

There are degrees of autonomy amongst the brands within the group but there is an overarching Big Brother that can make business decisions impacting them all. That's all I mean.

I've not seen any details on how much autonomy would be given to any brand under the proposed Japanese holding company. Details are scarce but I would imagine there to be some homogenizing activities as part of the business integration.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Probably right with the production/manufacturing capacity increase, but also Nissan's development of solid state batteries (Honda has apparently not even started on this front)...and, it's a way for Honda to rebadge and have some mid and full size body on frame trucks in their lineup (whether they need that or not, who knows).

I read your earlier post regarding the body on frame topic and it's an understandable and logical position, but that was my first thought too, does Honda really need to get into the body-on-frame marketspace. I'd say no; I think the Ridgeline provides a great answer with its unibody pickup truck. For a lot of the pickup truck market, I think the Ridgeline is a better choice for the real use case. You basically get an Accord with a pickup box attached to it. Even Ford recognizes there is a market for a (lighter-duty) unibody pickup, and the Maverick has been a great sales success.

Maybe Nissan's answer is a Retromod of its Hardbody pickup/SUV from the 1980's?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by bosstones

There are degrees of autonomy amongst the brands within the group but there is an overarching Big Brother that can make business decisions impacting them all. That's all I mean.

I've not seen any details on how much autonomy would be given to any brand under the proposed Japanese holding company. Details are scarce but I would imagine there to be some homogenizing activities as part of the business integration.

It's going to be interesting how Scout plays into the VW corporate overture. Scout is trying convincingly to keep separate by stating it is an "independent American startup".

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It's going to be interesting how Scout plays into the VW corporate overture. Scout is trying convincingly to keep separate by stating it is an "independent American startup".

Won’t matter. VW is cooked. Way too much debt and built in high costs and falling profits. Chinese market is drying up for them. It’s just an inexorable march to bankruptcy for them now.

[MaxVO2]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Won’t matter. VW is cooked. Way too much debt and built in high costs and falling profits. Chinese market is drying up for them. It’s just an inexorable march to bankruptcy for them now.

****Wow. Harsh, but probably not wrong. Only question is how long they realistically have. They do have a lot of debt, and falling profits plus a seeming endless barrage of lawsuits and fines they have to pay.

[BlkGS]

Nissan, despite the spin, is profitable. They sell a ton of cars and Renault has been raiding them for cash for years. The "dire straights" Nissan has had is Renault fire selling their shares to keep afloat.

Nissan has a huge manufacturing base, several chassis Honda doesn't, a huge dealer and supply chain network... Their value is not solid state batteries, lol.

I expect them to position Nissan as a more entry level version of Honda, sharing platforms and engines where prudent. Honda will likely get a pickup truck based on Frontier, and possibly a larger SUV than Pilot on a Nissan platform. EV development will be shared and joint, as nobody makes any money on EVs (except Tesla who got to avoid all legacy rules and had billions handed to them in carbon and cafe credits to find them) and the only way to do them is cut costs as much as possible

It's good for everyone, except Renault, who will likely still fail, because even French people don't want French cars.