New S4 has underrated HP numbers

M3_WC · 10-28-2009, 07:49 PM

Just like the 335i, the new 2010 Audi S4 is underrated.

"Audi tuner APR stuck a 2010 Audi S4 on an AWD-dyno and discovered the following. Instead of the 333 hp and 325 torques Audi is claiming, they pulled 331 hp and 336 pound-feet of torque... at the wheels! Figuring that AWD cars have about a 20% parasitic drivetrain power loss, the actual crank output of the S4 is huge. How huge? By our calculations just about 400 horsepower/torques."

Link:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/28/r...is-underrated/

JoosyJoos · 10-28-2009, 08:05 PM

Shit just got real...

Ender514 · 10-28-2009, 09:12 PM

humm...thats a pretty big discrepancy

Nikolas · 10-28-2009, 09:24 PM

I figured it was underrated but not by that much. Cool!

TwinTurboXI · 10-28-2009, 10:02 PM

Hmm, factory freak?

We'll see soon enough when more stock dynos start to show up.

lib · 10-28-2009, 10:03 PM

I'm willing to bet it's coming in at less than 20% drive-train loss.

With the massive push towards fuel efficiency, manufacturers are doing everything in their power to reduce wastes of that type.

Muffnbluff · 10-28-2009, 10:08 PM

Holy fuck, those are some big numbers for a stock 3.0L engine. That would explain why DTM was able to get 430hp from a tune and exhaust...they were starting out with huge numbers already.

TMNT · 10-28-2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoosyJoos

Shit just got real...

This.

Nikolas · 10-28-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lib

I'm willing to bet it's coming in at less than 20% drive-train loss.

With the massive push towards fuel efficiency, manufacturers are doing everything in their power to reduce wastes of that type.

Well technically this would be a negative loss. Yes that would be some awesome engineering!

domobrown · 10-28-2009, 11:32 PM

Whoa, if only it were lighter! That extra weight is holding back a potential beast

335fourdoor · 10-29-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Just like the 335i, the new 2010 Audi S4 is underrated.

"Audi tuner APR stuck a 2010 Audi S4 on an AWD-dyno and discovered the following. Instead of the 333 hp and 325 torques Audi is claiming, they pulled 331 hp and 336 pound-feet of torque... at the wheels! Figuring that AWD cars have about a 20% parasitic drivetrain power loss, the actual crank output of the S4 is huge. How huge? By our calculations just about 400 horsepower/torques."

Link:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/28/r...is-underrated/

for reeaalz?

footie · 10-29-2009, 01:42 AM

I've always claimed that the S4 was under rated, in much the same way as the 335 does. But the claimed drivetrain lose is wrong, quattro is incredibly hard to figure, plus all FI engines are designed to develop there quoted output at close on 40 degree, less temp will produce more power.

Garduna · 10-29-2009, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoosyJoos

Shit just got real...

Got FOCKING REAL!

Deda · 10-29-2009, 04:51 AM

That is lot of power!

lyndon_h · 10-29-2009, 09:08 AM

why is it taking this long for this information to drop? I'm sure other media companies have dyno'd the car...

ianbiz · 10-29-2009, 11:29 AM

im not going to lie, if these cars are reliable in like 4 years, i want one.

Berduderunner · 10-29-2009, 11:35 AM

even @ 15% that is massively underrated... No wonder the pig that is the S4 beat out the 335i in that last comparo...

Sniz · 10-29-2009, 11:59 AM

love to see a few more dyno's before I get a hard on.....but i'm going to start off w a little chub.

lol

footie · 10-29-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berduderunner

even @ 15% that is massively underrated... No wonder the pig that is the S4 beat out the 335i in that last comparo...

Are you forgetting that the 335i is also massively underrated itself.

BTW, I think your 15% or there abouts is spot on.

There would mean the S4 was underrated by 15% and the 335i which has been clocked (if your believe dyno figures) at 350hp which is in itself an underrating of about 15%.

Ender514 · 10-29-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

Are you forgetting that the 335i is also massively underrated itself.

BTW, I think your 15% or there abouts is spot on.

There would mean the S4 was underrated by 15% and the 335i which has been clocked (if your believe dyno figures) at 350hp which is in itself an underrating of about 15%.

from what i noticed of members post (correct me if im wrong), it seems that most are getting in the neighborhood of 270hp at the wheels...maybe a little more. with a drivetrain loss of 15%, which amounts to 40hp, thats only 310 crank hp. at 20%, its 324 crank hp.

TSM330i · 10-29-2009, 12:53 PM

There is a big problem with chassis dyno's. It depends on what type of dyno they're using. The only way to truely test hp figures is to pull the engine out and put it on a bench dyno. Chassis dyno are usually used to measure a gain for aftermarket parts to gauge the increase of the stock output.
I had a long discussion with Katech Engineering at Corvettes @ Carlisle a few years back. My stock Z06 dynoed at 445 rwhp on the dyno, with a 15% powertrain loss that is 524 crank hp. When I told him this he said that all the engines from GM that they've dynoed on a bench dyno come in right about 505hp. He said the difference is the way the chassis dyno measure hp.
Don't put too much credit to these numbers. Dyno a 335 back to back with the S4 and see the difference.

Muffnbluff · 10-29-2009, 01:42 PM

Seeing as APR has a pretty long history of tuning cars, I'd assume that they'd be able to get fairly accurate estimates based on how previous cars have dynoed.

Regardless, 330whp on any dyno makes it pretty obvious that the car is underrated, whether it's actually around 400hp or 375hp...the point of the matter is that it's clearly a lot more than 333.

10-28-2009, 07:49 PM	#1
M3_WC Brigadier General 1037 Rep 3,622 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	New S4 has underrated HP numbers Just like the 335i, the new 2010 Audi S4 is underrated. "Audi tuner APR stuck a 2010 Audi S4 on an AWD-dyno and discovered the following. Instead of the 333 hp and 325 torques Audi is claiming, they pulled 331 hp and 336 pound-feet of torque... at the wheels! Figuring that AWD cars have about a 20% parasitic drivetrain power loss, the actual crank output of the S4 is huge. How huge? By our calculations just about 400 horsepower/torques." Link: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/28/r...is-underrated/
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10-28-2009, 08:05 PM	#2
JoosyJoos Major 118 Rep 1,347 Posts Drives: 2011 335d Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 BMW 335i [0.00]	Shit just got real... __________________ 1997 M3 Coupe - BMWCCA I-Prepared #22 2006 M Roadster - 23,000 miles and slowly counting
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10-28-2009, 09:12 PM	#3
Ender514 General 228 Rep 20,998 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 335i Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Philly iTrader: (0)	humm...thats a pretty big discrepancy __________________ 09' E92 335i \| 6MT \| Montego Blue \| Black Dakota Leather \| Dark Burl Walnut \| Premium \| Sport \| Cold Weather \| Nav \| Sirius \| Comfort Access \| iPod and USB adapter
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10-28-2009, 09:24 PM	#4
Nikolas Colonel 313 Rep 2,576 Posts Drives: 996 TT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sierra Mountains iTrader: (0)	I figured it was underrated but not by that much. Cool!
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10-28-2009, 10:02 PM	#5
TwinTurboXI Lieutenant Colonel 165 Rep 1,523 Posts Drives: 2011 135i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . iTrader: (12)	Hmm, factory freak? We'll see soon enough when more stock dynos start to show up.
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10-28-2009, 10:03 PM	#6
lib Major 148 Rep 1,401 Posts Drives: <This space for rent> Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: ATX iTrader: (0)	I'm willing to bet it's coming in at less than 20% drive-train loss. With the massive push towards fuel efficiency, manufacturers are doing everything in their power to reduce wastes of that type.
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10-28-2009, 10:08 PM	#7
Muffnbluff Redline Addict 24 Rep 783 Posts Drives: '14 BMW 335 xdrive Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: STL iTrader: (0)	Holy fuck, those are some big numbers for a stock 3.0L engine. That would explain why DTM was able to get 430hp from a tune and exhaust...they were starting out with huge numbers already.
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10-28-2009, 11:32 PM	#10
domobrown Banned 16 Rep 513 Posts Drives: Audi RS5 S-Tronic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Salzburg, Austria iTrader: (0)	Whoa, if only it were lighter! That extra weight is holding back a potential beast
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10-29-2009, 01:42 AM	#12
footie Major General 1239 Rep 8,034 Posts Drives: i5M60 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW i5M60 [0.00] 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	I've always claimed that the S4 was under rated, in much the same way as the 335 does. But the claimed drivetrain lose is wrong, quattro is incredibly hard to figure, plus all FI engines are designed to develop there quoted output at close on 40 degree, less temp will produce more power.
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10-29-2009, 04:51 AM	#14
Deda Major General 575 Rep 7,033 Posts Drives: BMW M5 comp Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Croatia iTrader: (0)	That is lot of power!
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10-29-2009, 09:08 AM	#15
lyndon_h Lieutenant Colonel 43 Rep 1,917 Posts Drives: e90 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Madagascar iTrader: (2)	why is it taking this long for this information to drop? I'm sure other media companies have dyno'd the car...
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10-29-2009, 11:29 AM	#16
ianbiz Back in a BMW 211 Rep 5,208 Posts Drives: 2015 335i Msport Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (8)	im not going to lie, if these cars are reliable in like 4 years, i want one. __________________ Ian
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10-29-2009, 11:35 AM	#17
Berduderunner drk one 38 Rep 797 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Tampa/Orlando iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 e90 335i [0.00] 2008 135i [0.00]	even @ 15% that is massively underrated... No wonder the pig that is the S4 beat out the 335i in that last comparo... __________________ Jet Black \| Coral \| HighGlossBlack \| Steptronic \| Premium \| Sport \| Comfort \| ActiveSteering \| Navi \| HiFi \| HD \| iPod \| SAT BMS JB3 v2.0 \| BMS DCI \| Berk Tech Sport Exhaust \| UR * DPs \| CoolingMist Meth Kit w/ CMGS \| H&R OE Sport Springs \| Breyton GTS-R \| Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Specs \| GP Thunder 8000K Low Beams/Angel Eyes/Cornering Lights \| LED Interior Light Kit \| Window Tint \| Smoked Tail Lights \| Smoked License Plate Cover
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10-29-2009, 11:59 AM	#18
Sniz Lieutenant General 715 Rep 10,584 Posts Drives: e92 335 - gone // e36 M3 turbo Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ellicott City, MD iTrader: (1)	love to see a few more dyno's before I get a hard on.....but i'm going to start off w a little chub. lol __________________
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10-29-2009, 12:53 PM	#21
TSM330i 2006 330i, TSM, Black, manual, sport 899 Rep 3,698 Posts Drives: '17 C2, GTI, Z4 3.0si Racecar Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chester Springs, PA iTrader: (2)	There is a big problem with chassis dyno's. It depends on what type of dyno they're using. The only way to truely test hp figures is to pull the engine out and put it on a bench dyno. Chassis dyno are usually used to measure a gain for aftermarket parts to gauge the increase of the stock output. I had a long discussion with Katech Engineering at Corvettes @ Carlisle a few years back. My stock Z06 dynoed at 445 rwhp on the dyno, with a 15% powertrain loss that is 524 crank hp. When I told him this he said that all the engines from GM that they've dynoed on a bench dyno come in right about 505hp. He said the difference is the way the chassis dyno measure hp. Don't put too much credit to these numbers. Dyno a 335 back to back with the S4 and see the difference. __________________ 2017 Porsche C2 - manual of course 2015 GTI S 2008 BMW Z4 3.0si Coupe - because racecar
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10-29-2009, 01:42 PM	#22
Muffnbluff Redline Addict 24 Rep 783 Posts Drives: '14 BMW 335 xdrive Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: STL iTrader: (0)	Seeing as APR has a pretty long history of tuning cars, I'd assume that they'd be able to get fairly accurate estimates based on how previous cars have dynoed. Regardless, 330whp on any dyno makes it pretty obvious that the car is underrated, whether it's actually around 400hp or 375hp...the point of the matter is that it's clearly a lot more than 333.
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