[Highend2]

So I was out to dinner with a few friends last night and we all work in the automotive business in one way or another and are generally all car guys. Well one friend brought his buddy who proceeded to go off on us about how mad he was that he had to bring his Audi S4 to the dealer for warrenty work and all this and that and how he thought Audi build better cars......... Blah Blah.

Are you kidding me? I am sick of always hearing people bitch about every rattle and little problem they have with their BMW, Merc, or other cars. A car is a mechanical device. They have thousands of moving parts and brands like BMW are extremely complex in build and electronics. It is unrealistic to think that they will operate flawess all the time. Even a shopping cart will develope a wobbly or stuck wheel at some point in its lifetime. The belief that some poeple have that if they buy from a premium brand that the car should be perfect is pure nonsense. These people obviously buy them for status only. People who own a Ferrari will tell you that they are not the most reliable cars on the planet, however they are more then just the sum of their parts, it is how the car makes you feel. I have a client who owns a 08 Rolls Phantom Coupe. It has been back to the dealer 3 times since he bought it ( the closest dealer is over 1000KM away) mostly for electrical issues. He doesnt care though. He understands the point I am attempting to make. One thing he said to me was " I dont mind that the car has a few problems, because when I do express a concern, the dealer corrects the problem quickly and always attempts to make up for the product failing in the first place and that is something I do expect when owning a car like this."

That is something I totally agree with. Whenever I have had a problem with my 1 series or our Merc CLK, the dealers are professional and fix the problem, treat me great and never argue with me regarding the concern I have expressed. This to me is way more important then having a boring, drabb car that when there is a problem is extremely stressful to have corrected. Case in point is my sisters Civic. When she had a problem with the car, it was like pulling teeth to get them to fix the vehicle under warrenty and all they did was seem to blame her for the problem. Anyone who has been following the Toyota and Lexus recall, they seem to do the same thing.

Just love the car you have and enjoy it. If you really are a car fan, the problems you may have every now and then are nothing compared to the fun you have when all is well.

[ptack]

Nurse Ratched, can you tend to our friend here?

[shiggy]

the S4 has a series of mechanical and electrical issues...so he was just probably venting because of all the work that has been done to it since his purchase!
Although their Quattro all wheel drive system is great...its not that reliable!

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by Highend2

So I was out to dinner with a few friends last night and we all work in the automotive business in one way or another and are generally all car guys. Well one friend brought his buddy who proceeded to go off on us about how mad he was that he had to bring his Audi S4 to the dealer for warrenty work and all this and that and how he thought Audi build better cars......... Blah Blah.

Are you kidding me? I am sick of always hearing people bitch about every rattle and little problem they have with their BMW, Merc, or other cars. A car is a mechanical device. They have thousands of moving parts and brands like BMW are extremely complex in build and electronics. It is unrealistic to think that they will operate flawess all the time. Even a shopping cart will develope a wobbly or stuck wheel at some point in its lifetime. The belief that some poeple have that if they buy from a premium brand that the car should be perfect is pure nonsense. These people obviously buy them for status only. People who own a Ferrari will tell you that they are not the most reliable cars on the planet, however they are more then just the sum of their parts, it is how the car makes you feel. I have a client who owns a 08 Rolls Phantom Coupe. It has been back to the dealer 3 times since he bought it ( the closest dealer is over 1000KM away) mostly for electrical issues. He doesnt care though. He understands the point I am attempting to make. One thing he said to me was " I dont mind that the car has a few problems, because when I do express a concern, the dealer corrects the problem quickly and always attempts to make up for the product failing in the first place and that is something I do expect when owning a car like this."

That is something I totally agree with. Whenever I have had a problem with my 1 series or our Merc CLK, the dealers are professional and fix the problem, treat me great and never argue with me regarding the concern I have expressed. This to me is way more important then having a boring, drabb car that when there is a problem is extremely stressful to have corrected. Case in point is my sisters Civic. When she had a problem with the car, it was like pulling teeth to get them to fix the vehicle under warrenty and all they did was seem to blame her for the problem. Anyone who has been following the Toyota and Lexus recall, they seem to do the same thing.

Just love the car you have and enjoy it. If you really are a car fan, the problems you may have every now and then are nothing compared to the fun you have when all is well.

Boo freakin' hoo.

The excuse that the German manufacturers can't provide reliable vehicles is a total cop out. The example you use of your client with the Rolls is completely irrelevant. Of course the dealer is going to take good care of you when you're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on one car. It's not like they sell thousands of units a year.

We've had 2 Lexus and they were/are far more reliable than either our BMW or MB and the statistics are proven to support this. I could give a rat's azz about the badge on the hood as you can see by my garage, but to suggest we should give the German manufacturers a pass because they can't figure out how to eliminate reliability issues is lame. Just so you're aware, +$60K vehicles shouldn't come with rattles and little issues.

I will say that our local BMW dealership has been hands down the best to deal with and that, to this point, they have done everything to resolve our issues. The dealer in Etown was average at best.

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

We've had 2 Lexus and they were/are far more reliable than either our BMW or MB and the statistics are proven to support this. I could give a rat's azz about the badge on the hood as you can see by my garage, but to suggest we should give the German manufacturers a pass because they can't figure out how to eliminate reliability issues is lame. Just so you're aware, +$60K vehicles shouldn't come with rattles and little issues.

I will say that our local BMW dealership has been hands down the best to deal with and that, to this point, they have done everything to resolve our issues. The dealer in Etown was average at best.

+1

[footie]

9 times out of 10 it isn't how reliable your car is that sticks in your mind but how good your dealer is with dealing with your complaint, if you pay £50k for a new car compared to £10k your expectations are more so when your expensive car breaks down you are more inclined to be pissed and if the dealer doesn't deal with your complaint promptly and professionally you rate your overall experience as a reflection of the brand as a whole.

[lesha]

i think its all relative because it depends on how much time you actually spend at the dealers after buying your bmw, if you have to come back for something fixed it's not a big deal, like you said it is a complex machine

but people get upset when they buy an expensive german car and they keep coming back to the dealer to get something fixed pretty often, when you pay a lot of money for something you expect certain quality to come long with it

[josephr25]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Boo freakin' hoo.

The excuse that the German manufacturers can't provide reliable vehicles is a total cop out. The example you use of your client with the Rolls is completely irrelevant. Of course the dealer is going to take good care of you when you're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on one car. It's not like they sell thousands of units a year.

We've had 2 Lexus and they were/are far more reliable than either our BMW or MB and the statistics are proven to support this. I could give a rat's azz about the badge on the hood as you can see by my garage, but to suggest we should give the German manufacturers a pass because they can't figure out how to eliminate reliability issues is lame. Just so you're aware, +$60K vehicles shouldn't come with rattles and little issues.

I will say that our local BMW dealership has been hands down the best to deal with and that, to this point, they have done everything to resolve our issues. The dealer in Etown was average at best.

Exactly.

OP also fails to comment on the fact that Ferraris are almost never driven daily and many people gladly give them up because of the maintenance.

[majin ssj eric]

While I agree that some people have an unreasonable expectation of perfection out of an expensive car, I do not believe that carmakers should be given a pass on reliability just because a car is a complicated machine. It SHOULD work flawlessly for at least the warranty period (which is the purpose of warranties anyway). Sure not all cars are made perfectly and some will have problems which should be resolved through the warranty process. But to say that the customer is wrong because they expect their $50k+ investment to perform as advertised is crazy.

[Ender514]

Originally Posted by Highend2

So I was out to dinner with a few friends last night and we all work in the automotive business in one way or another and are generally all car guys. Well one friend brought his buddy who proceeded to go off on us about how mad he was that he had to bring his Audi S4 to the dealer for warrenty work and all this and that and how he thought Audi build better cars......... Blah Blah.

Are you kidding me? I am sick of always hearing people bitch about every rattle and little problem they have with their BMW, Merc, or other cars. A car is a mechanical device. They have thousands of moving parts and brands like BMW are extremely complex in build and electronics. It is unrealistic to think that they will operate flawess all the time. Even a shopping cart will develope a wobbly or stuck wheel at some point in its lifetime. The belief that some poeple have that if they buy from a premium brand that the car should be perfect is pure nonsense. These people obviously buy them for status only. People who own a Ferrari will tell you that they are not the most reliable cars on the planet, however they are more then just the sum of their parts, it is how the car makes you feel. I have a client who owns a 08 Rolls Phantom Coupe. It has been back to the dealer 3 times since he bought it ( the closest dealer is over 1000KM away) mostly for electrical issues. He doesnt care though. He understands the point I am attempting to make. One thing he said to me was " I dont mind that the car has a few problems, because when I do express a concern, the dealer corrects the problem quickly and always attempts to make up for the product failing in the first place and that is something I do expect when owning a car like this."

That is something I totally agree with. Whenever I have had a problem with my 1 series or our Merc CLK, the dealers are professional and fix the problem, treat me great and never argue with me regarding the concern I have expressed. This to me is way more important then having a boring, drabb car that when there is a problem is extremely stressful to have corrected. Case in point is my sisters Civic. When she had a problem with the car, it was like pulling teeth to get them to fix the vehicle under warrenty and all they did was seem to blame her for the problem. Anyone who has been following the Toyota and Lexus recall, they seem to do the same thing.

Just love the car you have and enjoy it. If you really are a car fan, the problems you may have every now and then are nothing compared to the fun you have when all is well.

some people here would love to enjoy their car.....but it spends too much time at the dealership. but you're sick of those people bitching right? its a complex machine and we should expect problems

[FStop7]

cool story bro

[._.]

My car has been to the dealer 6 times so far this year fro CELs, am I allowed to be pissed?

[blue2fire]

Cool bro story.

[Highend2]

Boo freakin' hoo.

The excuse that the German manufacturers can't provide reliable vehicles is a total cop out. The example you use of your client with the Rolls is completely irrelevant. Of course the dealer is going to take good care of you when you're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on one car. It's not like they sell thousands of units a year.

We've had 2 Lexus and they were/are far more reliable than either our BMW or MB and the statistics are proven to support this. I could give a rat's azz about the badge on the hood as you can see by my garage, but to suggest we should give the German manufacturers a pass because they can't figure out how to eliminate reliability issues is lame. Just so you're aware, +$60K vehicles shouldn't come with rattles and little issues.

Well I admit that that some cars do have overkill when it comes to defects and problems, the majority tend to be trouble free or people wouldn't buy them as they do. As BMW tends to sell more cars worldwide then Lexus could ever dream of, they must be doing something right. My problem with this jackass was he has no knowledge of cars at all except what he reads in Car and Driver, decided to bash his car and most german cars because his 07 with around 60,000Km has to go in for warrenty work for the first time since he's owned it. I could understand if he was living at the dealer, but one time?

By the way, I know far more people who have had several major problems with their Lexus vehicles then I do with BMW or Mercedes. The germans may have issues, but Lexus is not the "god of vehicles" that the owners make them out to be.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by Highend2

Well I admit that that some cars do have overkill when it comes to defects and problems, the majority tend to be trouble free or people wouldn't buy them as they do. As BMW tends to sell more cars worldwide then Lexus could ever dream of, they must be doing something right. My problem with this jackass was he has no knowledge of cars at all except what he reads in Car and Driver, decided to bash his car and most german cars because his 07 with around 60,000Km has to go in for warrenty work for the first time since he's owned it. I could understand if he was living at the dealer, but one time?

By the way, I know far more people who have had several major problems with their Lexus vehicles then I do with BMW or Mercedes. The germans may have issues, but Lexus is not the "god of vehicles" that the owners make them out to be.

Wow. I sure hope your involvement in the car business isn't in sales because it is very clear you know nothing about the luxury brands.

You can slag Lexus all you want....the statistics show they are significantly more reliable than BMW and MB. Reliability isn't the end all and be all of a vehicle however, which is how I ended up with one of each.

[Highend2]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Wow. I sure hope your involvement in the car business isn't in sales because it is very clear you know nothing about the luxury brands.

You can slag Lexus all you want....the statistics show they are significantly more reliable than BMW and MB. Reliability isn't the end all and be all of a vehicle however, which is how I ended up with one of each.

What a suprise, another person form Calgary resorting to taking a dig at someone as a means of defence. Actually for your information, I determine salvage titles for vehicles by examining the type of and areas of damage they have. I have training in automotive engineering and I-CAR along with many other types of automotive education. My view on cars depends on the materials they are made of, paint process, and manufacturing techniques. My dislike for Lexus comes from the cost cutting they use to build their cars and the attempts they use to hide it. If you like, take the upper tie bar covers off your lexus and have a look at the bare metal rad support and frame rails that even GM takes the time to paint on a Cobalt. Tell me, is it expected that a $60K plus car should have something as low cost and simple as non-clearocat paint on the inner structures of the car?

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by Highend2

What a suprise, another person form Calgary resorting to taking a dig at someone as a means of defence.

More meaningless drivel. I actually spent the majority of my life in Etown...and I don't live in Calgary.

I could frankly give a rat's azz about whether or not something is painted under the hood that I or anyone else is never going to see. You're like the guy that suggested on another forum that the new ML was flawed because there were exposed, painted screws around the headlights...lol.

The point that most here are making is that it is unacceptable for any luxury manufacturer to ignore reliablity and that we should accept "rattles and issues" as part of the package....especially with the German marques.

[blue2fire]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

More meaningless drivel. I actually spent the majority of my life in Etown...and I don't live in Calgary.

I dont know what to trust, you or your profile.

[blue2fire]

I have nothing against Lexus. Everything you can see and touch in most of their cars seems ahead of the curve in quality. I dont know about how they treat the innards but my BMW experience has had everything from power windows to the folding mirrors fail. I have also given up on the rattles, just not worth trying to fix anymore.

It feels odd to make up excuses for what feel like blatant quality issues. I love driving it, only reason i hold on.

[Nikolas]

bro, story cool!

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by blue2fire

I dont know what to trust, you or your profile.

Not sure what you're questioning, but I'd be happy to clear it up for you in PM....but it says you're message box is full.

[FStop7]

Originally Posted by Highend2

What a suprise, another person form Calgary resorting to taking a dig at someone as a means of defence.

Yeah! Goddamned Calgarians! Buncha no goods.

I didn't know that Edmontonians hated Calgarians (Calgarites?). This inside drama about Canada is very interesting.