[inspector gadget]

Saw this up on Mustang6G.

Pretty incredible numbers for a turbo 4 cyl And if they drop weight in the next Mustang, it should go like stink.

Article:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=565

[Dave07997S]

That 2.3L EB4 motor is what the Focus RS is going to get in Europe, which we won't get. The 2.3 EB4 motor is over 330hp and 300 ft/lbs of tq. It will take sometime for Mustang buyers to get used to the idea of this motor though. I remember when the SVO Mustang was out with similar horsepower numbers to the older iron 5.0L V8 and the V8 outsold the more expensive SVO by a 3:1 margin.

Dave

[kyleb350]

I wouldn't imagine it'll upset too many Mustang fans as it'll be the entry level engine option. From the rumors I've read, the engine is based on the 2.0L Focus ST engine with a slightly larger turbo to go with the displacement bump.

[IancoleTX]

A high-output turbo 4 is going to be similar in performance to a V6, so why bother? It's not going to be cheaper, and if you try and squeeze crazy power out of a 4-cyl already putting about ~150 hp/liter.. can't be great for reliability. I don't get it at this point.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by IancoleTX

A high-output turbo 4 is going to be similar in performance to a V6, so why bother?

Euro emissions.

[Red Bread]

And engine displacement tax.

[Year's_End]

I'm all for more engine selection for the consumer, and I'll always welcome another FI addition, but unless the new-gen Mustang's design and character is drastically different from the outgoing one, I just don't see a four-banger suiting the car.

It's like "yeah that's a great engine. Good numbers, good fuel economy, decently fast, etc... but you should've gone with the V8".

[PINeely]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

I'm all for more engine selection for the consumer, and I'll always welcome another FI addition, but unless the new-gen Mustang's design and character is drastically different from the outgoing one, I just don't see a four-banger suiting the car.

It's like "yeah that's a great engine. Good numbers, good fuel economy, decently fast, etc... but you should've gone with the V8".

I feel the same way. Bigger displacement and more cylinders is the philosophy which made muscle cars successful. Even if the new 4-banger turbo is technologically stunning and practical I don't think that it will sell as many cars as a V6 would. Instead I see people wanting to pay the extra for the V8 rather than suffer the stigma of having a 4-banger Mustang.

[Aventador97]

I read about this, if they bring the 4 cylinder back I hope that those numbers are true. It can only go up hill from the last 4 cylinder.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

I'm all for more engine selection for the consumer, and I'll always welcome another FI addition, but unless the new-gen Mustang's design and character is drastically different from the outgoing one, I just don't see a four-banger suiting the car.

It's like "yeah that's a great engine. Good numbers, good fuel economy, decently fast, etc... but you should've gone with the V8".

Well the next gen Mustang will be a lot lighter and have a properly implemented IRS, which should make it at least seem a lot more civil. As long as this doesn't mean Ford thinks it can take the Mustang upmarket, I'm OK with it. A turbo four could suit the new chassis well.

Who is going to miss the V6 in a Mustang anyway? With the volume Ford sells (do fleet vehicles count towards CAFE standards?), moving to a more efficient engine in a demographic where the customer likely won't give a shit either way is probably a smart move.

Now, if they were to replace the V8 with a TTV6, that's another story entirely.

[PINeely]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

Well the next gen Mustang will be a lot lighter and have a properly implemented IRS, which should make it at least seem a lot more civil. As long as this doesn't mean Ford thinks it can take the Mustang upmarket, I'm OK with it. A turbo four could suit the new chassis well.

Who is going to miss the V6 in a Mustang anyway? With the volume Ford sells (do fleet vehicles count towards CAFE standards?), moving to a more efficient engine in a demographic where the customer likely won't give a shit either way is probably a smart move.

Now, if they were to replace the V8 with a TTV6, that's another story entirely.

The thing is, I think that the customer WILL care. You're already talking about compromise with a muscle car on comfort, consumption, handling (usually) etc. People in the 60's made that compromise so they could have the big engines. Granted bigger displacements were used to net more power rather than turbos in that case and we are moving to a very turbo-friendly market. It's just that even if a turbo 4 puts up big numbers, you're taking away the displacement which is all the cars had to begin with.

In short, this engine makes too much sense to be in a muscle car. The fun of those cars is in the huge wailing block. Even with the rest of the car being engineered to suit the new engine, that engine doesn't suit a muscle car.

We are talking about people assumed to know the difference and have preferences however; its not going to phase the market share of high-school girls who drive the V6.

[ragingclue]

I don't know, I just don't think the V6 crowd will care too much. Nobody cares about the displacement of the V6's and nobody was aiming real high when selecting the V6 anyway (I'm not trying to sound like a jerk there but it seems to be true in my experience). It's not replacing the V8, so the people who do care about power and displacement won't be affected in the least.

Ford is doing the right thing in dropping the V6 which no one cares about, and replacing it with something more efficient while not losing out on power. Plus, now you have tunability, which the V6es weren't exactly known for.

In fact, I think when they switch to the Ecoboost engine, interest in the car as base engine will go up, not down (assuming prices stay reasonably in line with what they are now).

[flyinb501]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

I don't know, I just don't think the V6 crowd will care too much. Nobody cares about the displacement of the V6's and nobody was aiming real high when selecting the V6 anyway (I'm not trying to sound like a jerk there but it seems to be true in my experience). It's not replacing the V8, so the people who do care about power and displacement won't be affected in the least.

Ford is doing the right thing in dropping the V6 which no one cares about, and replacing it with something more efficient while not losing out on power. Plus, now you have tunability, which the V6es weren't exactly known for.

In fact, I think when they switch to the Ecoboost engine, interest in the car as base engine will go up, not down (assuming prices stay reasonably in line with what they are now).

I think your analysis is spot on. The V6 mustang was pretty much worthless to everyone IMO. With the 4 you will get some attention from the tuner crowd and the people that don't care about power won't be affected.

[Red Bread]

Doesn't the current V6 redline under 6k? I know they used to, and that they've made recent improvements, so maybe it's less truck like, but it's not like they're replacing a great engine in the first place. There have only been two great V6's, the NSX and the GTR.

[son_of_siggy]

Originally Posted by flyinb501

I think your analysis is spot on. The V6 mustang was pretty much worthless to everyone IMO. With the 4 you will get some attention from the tuner crowd and the people that don't care about power won't be affected.

+1.

They're essentially opening the car up to two heavy aftermarket crowds now. The V8 guys, and the 4-cyl crew. Lots of opportunity.

The muscle cars were about speed. At the time, engine size was very linear to speed so the bigger engines usually won. However the Mustang (and a few others) began to change that with lighter cars and smaller displacement engines.

Now, we don't need the constant big engine size to stay competitive. Remember, forced induction IS displacement. It's just extra displacement on tap. It IS a bigger engine when you need it, and a smaller engine when you don't.

The V6 stang is usually for people who want the look, the name, the style, but don't care too much about the all-out performance. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm with the others who says they'll care little about going from a V6 to a turbo 4 that nets the same power and probably better MPG.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Doesn't the current V6 redline under 6k? I know they used to, and that they've made recent improvements, so maybe it's less truck like, but it's not like they're replacing a great engine in the first place. There have only been two great V6's, the NSX and the GTR.

No, it's a Dohc with vvt. With the proper packages and rear end ratio it's a 13 second car trapping in the low 100's. Before the Coyote 5.0, those were GT numbers.

[inspector gadget]

Originally Posted by son_of_siggy

+1.

They're essentially opening the car up to two heavy aftermarket crowds now. The V8 guys, and the 4-cyl crew. Lots of opportunity.

Definitely. The V6 is just blah and not very responsive to tuning. An ecoboost 4 cyl however is the aftermarket tuner's wet dream.