[nicosusername]

Originally Posted by phiishstiicks

If I didn't know any better, I would have thought it was an EV. It is almost silent. I know it's an easy fix,but the fact that you have to jeopardize your warranty and spend $5k+ on a exhaust after spending $130k+ on a High performance car to make it not sound like vacuum cleaner, should upset everyone.

I’ve been browsing auto forums since the early 2000s. It’s amazing - how time and time again - there is always someone who thinks swapping out an exhaust system automatically voids any type of warranty coverage. You’d probably be shocked when I tell you people change exhaust on their cars that are way above the $130k range; probably even more so when I tell you they still retain their warranty — myself included.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

So if we say there's a 20% parasitic loss due to AWD, we're at what, 815 hp?

Originally Posted by supershaft

why not 30%? or 40%? the sky is the limit!

what dyno do they run and do they state the DA? those two variables are huge.

the parasitic loss for this car should be between 10-15%.

Not sure if you're trolling or simply unaware, AWD differs from 2WD cars, hence why I said 20% parasitic loss. 10-15% is typically associated with FWD/RWD cars.

[fubigem]

Originally Posted by phiishstiicks

If I didn't know any better, I would have thought it was an EV. It is almost silent. I know it's an easy fix,but the fact that you have to jeopardize your warranty and spend $5k+ on a exhaust after spending $130k+ on a High performance car to make it not sound like vacuum cleaner, should upset everyone.

Will be solved next generation. Electric only so it won’t even sound like a vacuum cleaner.

[icpee]

Originally Posted by nicosusername

This isn’t a claim. It’s factual. Just ask any EU member here, or do some Google work on the EU emission regulations. The OPF was introduced in 2018, in addition. Fortunately (well, depending where you live), US cars are not restricted by this.

Yep. Isn't the EU emission regulations getting stricter in June 2025?

Yep. Just from quick google search:

The European Union (EU) has several emission standards that will be in place in June 2025 and beyond, including:
Euro 7
The strictest emissions standards for new cars yet, coming into force on July 1, 2025. Euro 7 will include stricter limits for petrol, diesel, hybrid, and electric cars, as well as new regulations for non-exhaust emissions.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by icpee

Yep. Isn't the EU emission regulations getting stricter in June 2025?

Yep. Just from quick google search:

The European Union (EU) has several emission standards that will be in place in June 2025 and beyond, including:
Euro 7
The strictest emissions standards for new cars yet, coming into force on July 1, 2025. Euro 7 will include stricter limits for petrol, diesel, hybrid, and electric cars, as well as new regulations for non-exhaust emissions.

Add to this that for 2025 the CO² emission of the average produced car by any given car manufacturer must be limited to 93,6gr/km, which is the equivalent of 59mls to the gallon. When the manufacturer exceeds this norm, it must pay a compensation fine of millions €.

Further add that no car may emit more than 68dB noise as a strict homologation criterium. This rule is relaxed for sportscars, but always hard limited to 77dB.

Happy motoring in EU!!

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Add to this that for 2025 the CO² emission of the average produced car by any given car manufacturer must be limited to 93,6gr/km, which is the equivalent of 59mls to the gallon. When the manufacturer exceeds this norm, it must pay a compensation fine of millions €.

Further add that no car may emit more than 68dB noise as a strict homologation criterium. This rule is relaxed for sportscars, but always hard limited to 77dB.

Happy motoring in EU!!

For a part of the world that makes such great automobiles, it sure seems like EU government hates automobiles!

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by randomserious

got any source for that claim?

I heard something similar in an interview recently. and it makes sense. When they were sketching out what the G90 should be there was a lot of uncertainty about ICE vehicles in general. Remember this was 5 years ago, not last week and the planned to have the car in production for something like 7 years so they were planning for 10+ years out from the design phase. We now know that Norway will likely sell zero M5's as an extreme example since their market is 98% EV now. I have also heard, but not confirmed, that several downtown areas in the EU are banning full ICE vehicles during work hours. So if you are an attorney, executive or high end salesperson the M5 could be ruled out based on those requirements.

Put another way if you were planning a car right now that had to sell in volume in 2035 what are the considerations you would have to make? Remember that Norway made their 100% EV mandate in 2016 going from memory. I know everyone will say full ICE, but that is not from a corporate profitability perspective. That is an emotional response.

BTW during the design phase BMW looked at everything from full EV to full ICE and landed on PHEV. They probably made the right choice as is usual for the M division and I am sure the car will be fantastic.

[6speed_M2]

The question is… how many of us former/current M owners are considering this G90 M5?

Coming from the DCT E90 M3 and manual F87 M2 (keeping this along with the G90) I’m hoping to get the wagon M5 instead of the G80 M3 or X5M.

Without having driven either of the three^, I’m assuming it’ll be the most comfortable daily driver and a balance between the G80 and X5M.

The hybrid does appeal to me as well in certain situations. If I work close to home there’s no need to start the engine 2-3x a day. No need to properly warm it up everytime and I could start it 1-2x a week instead.

If the exhaust is modified and the cold start is loud I could avoid cold starts in a quiet neighborhood, plus the benefit with the in-gear acceleration from the hybrid seems great. I also love the idea of having a wagon both for its styling and functionality/interior space.

[infamousq]

Originally Posted by randomserious

got any source for that claim?

Here you go..all car manufactures have been talking about it for years.....

https://www.airclim.org/legislation-vehicles-and-fuels

[Ilikemike]

Compared to what? Same old thing with dyno testing posts, what’s the baseline models tested on that dyno? Maybe a 2020 M2 CS puts out 600 whp and 700 wtq. Could you please provide some other results from other auto makers on the dyno you used (or maybe I missed where you stated that… in which case, apologies)

[imperfectluck]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

The question is… how many of us former/current M owners are considering this G90 M5?

Coming from the DCT E90 M3 and manual F87 M2 (keeping this along with the G90) I’m hoping to get a wagon M5 instead of the G80 M3 or X5M.

I’m in a similar camp as you, was never opposed to the G90 from the rear diffuser leak we got a while back. My well modded DCT F87 is my daily as I don’t have kids yet. It’s without a doubt my forever car and a G90 or F95 would join it and be better suited for long haul drives from the north east into the south.

I just don’t want to sign my name yet until this platform matures a bit for this chassis. (Could always cross reference the XM since it’s S68 should be in line with this variant)

[FloridaM5]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

The question is… how many of us former/current M owners are considering this G90 M5?

Coming from the DCT E90 M3 and manual F87 M2 (keeping this along with the G90) I’m hoping to get a wagon M5 instead of the G80 M3 or X5M.

Without having driven either of the three^, I’m assuming it’ll be the most comfortable daily driver and a balance between the G80 and X5M.

The hybrid does appeal to me as well in certain situations. If I work close to home there’s no need to start the engine 2-3x a day. If the exhaust is modified I could avoid cold starts in a quiet neighborhood, plus the benefit with the in-gear acceleration seems great. Having a wagon both for its styling and functionality also seems awesome.

I voted with my money. Had a f90 and a g80, and really enjoyed both of them. Pretty pumped to get back into an m5.

I like the hybrid aspect of it too.

[ArchieV]

Originally Posted by FreudeamFahren18

I think the strigent EU regulations are really to blame. They are not allowed to make NA V8 and V10 ‘s due to pollution or they face steep penalties.
So the BMW did the best they could by keeping an 8 cylinder by adding a hybrid


Unfortunately weight gain and horrible sounding car is the price to pay
At least they didn’t make it a 6 cylinder, or a 4 banger like the Merc did with the C class.

Correct this exactly. They chose the lesser of two evils. Blame government overreach and regs.

[tgF90]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

The question is… how many of us former/current M owners are considering this G90 M5?

Coming from the DCT E90 M3 and manual F87 M2 (keeping this along with the G90) I’m hoping to get the wagon M5 instead of the G80 M3 or X5M.

Without having driven either of the three^, I’m assuming it’ll be the most comfortable daily driver and a balance between the G80 and X5M.

The hybrid does appeal to me as well in certain situations. If I work close to home there’s no need to start the engine 2-3x a day. No need to properly warm it up everytime and I could start it 1-2x a week instead.

If the exhaust is modified and the cold start is loud I could avoid cold starts in a quiet neighborhood, plus the benefit with the in-gear acceleration from the hybrid seems great. I also love the idea of having a wagon both for its styling and functionality/interior space.

Coming from F80, F90, and F90C. Have had the G90 for a week. Still learning all the diff driving modes but this is a way smoother car than the F90 with the electric torque. Haven’t really pushed it but the weight is negligible so far. Assume it will show with hard braking. Don’t like the hankooks and will prob swap them out for 5S as soon as I can. Like the interior as it’s more modern styling. Seats are ok but miss the massage for my aching back. Miss the soft close doors but I get they are trying to save every pound. Biggest disappointment has been the exhaust. Too quiet. Hoping it perks up after the break in period.

[FreudeamFahren18]

Originally Posted by randomserious

got any source for that claim?

Yes it was on a documentary on DW ( Duetsche Welle) a German Television station plus I am well versed with current day events around the world.
Currently Germany is experiencing both financial, and political crisis.
The Bundestag just voted to pass a motion of no confidence in their chancellor essentially ending the SPD ruling coalition led by Chancellor Olaf Scholz that many are blaming for the financial hardships facing Germany.
In reality its a combination of factors some stemming from Covid 19 pandemic, Stiff competition from China and Ukraine war with Russia which has brought on increased energy costs since Germany was heavily reliant on Russia’s cheap gas, and a host of regulations which are supposed curb the increases in greenhouse gases.
However increased political fragmentation and challenges from populist parties like AFD could limit chances for substantial reform.
VW for the first time is planning on massive lay offs and shutting down factories in Germany for the first time and relocating to areas with cheaper labor costs like Mexico.
China which had become a cash cow for German car makers has seen an increasing demand for its home grown electric cars, leaving the German brands scrambling to come up with ways to increase sales. They are proposing a reversal of the banning of ICE vehicles starting in 2035 in Europe in light of decreased demands of electric cars and stiff competition from China which subsidizes its electric cars making them far cheaper and in most cases have advanced technology compared to European made electric vehicles.
Some of those stringent regulations are why BMW and other legacy manufacturers are being forced to do away with naturally aspirated big engines to avoid steep penalties. They are fighting back telling the EU that these regulations will mean death to the European car industry as we know it.

[6speed_M2]

tgF90

I appreciate the insight!

I figured a wagon would be cool because it’s already so heavy, why not get a wagon, but I’m glad it’s not as noticeable as we thought it would be based from your experience.

I’ve heard horror stories about the CCBs being loud and annoying, but it seems like this car could greatly benefit from the extra stopping power.

Things like the exhaust, wheels/tires, I don’t worry as much about assuming a large enough percentage of owners might modify their cars anyways.

I can’t wait to see what a stage 1 JB4 can do here… let alone stage 2 with race fuel.

[Erebor]

Originally Posted by Crazy1323

For a part of the world that makes such great automobiles, it sure seems like EU government hates automobiles!

There is now a new law in Switzerland, which forbids "emision of unnecessary noise". This basically means, if you drive too loud on the streets you can get fined for up to 10'000.- CHF. This includes the stock pops and bangs certain sportcars may have.
If you drive in sport+ and a cop is there to witness it, you're done, because driving in sport+ is not necessary to get to your target location.

This is how much we hate cars here.

[A_]

Stock M5 G90 is too slow.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jm7tCCWWqnY

[Chihuahua]

This new M5 is a monster. 700+bhp TTV8 and I can put it in full EV mode for grocery and gym runs? Yes please, and it looks fantastic too. Congrats to all of you that are taking delivery of these cars.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Moopai

WOW! Does that mean this beast has 872hp/930lb-ft when you include the electric motor? Ouffff

How did you end up 872?
Are you expecting 23% power loss?
This is year 2024 not 1985. and this is German car not American one LOL

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

How did you end up 872?
Are you expecting 23% power loss?
This is year 2024 not 1985. and this is German car not American one LOL

yup. as usual people with no understanding claiming wild shit. worst case this car is probably around 15-17% drivetrain loss. we still don't know what dyno they used or the DA for the run.

[Ev0lutionx]

Originally Posted by nicosusername

I’ve been browsing auto forums since the early 2000s. It’s amazing - how time and time again - there is always someone who thinks swapping out an exhaust system automatically voids any type of warranty coverage. You’d probably be shocked when I tell you people change exhaust on their cars that are way above the $130k range; probably even more so when I tell you they still retain their warranty — myself included.

A warranty can be voided for a NUMBER of reasons, including aftermarket exhaust.

But the dealer would need to prove that the aftermarket exhaust caused whatever failure or issue.