[c1pher]

Yes Camaros and Mustangs can have that boy racer stigma but the prices are getting higher so unless you’re buying the Hertz version, you pay a fair amount for the performance versions.

[TSM330i]

Great car! That's a ton of performance for the money for sure.

BTW: My neighbors son is the president of Magnuson Superchargers. Just saying...

[RM7]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

Great car! That's a ton of performance for the money for sure.

BTW: My neighbors son is the president of Magnuson Superchargers. Just saying...

I thought about a ZL-1, but I just can't see anywhere on the roads where I could be using it to anywhere near it's potential. So the 2SS 1LE is kind of the ZL-1 minus the LT4, with "only" 455hp.

We'll see down the road, but so far I'm pretty happy. The car is nuts. When it starts up it just goes ballistic with the exhaust (and then quiets down a bit). I could do all day long, lol. This is a very well tuned car, lots of nice features, crazy performance.

[RM7]

And the thing I like about GM is that they simply have not been holding back over the last decade. Should we put 305 tires on the front of a car? Let's do it! Can we stuff a 640hp engine in this CTS-V? Heck yeah. 400+hp V8 sedan, and so on. Ford always seems to follow suit a few years later but either much more watered-down or has to go with something more specific like GT500 straight-line performance or focus RS, good vehicles in their own right, but GM seems to be shooting for the top over the last few decades, taking Porsche and Ferrari to task around the rings. Major props for doing so.

[scoobysaurus]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

And the thing I like about GM is that they simply have not been holding back over the last decade. Should we put 305 tires on the front of a car? Let's do it! Can we stuff a 640hp engine in this CTS-V? Heck yeah. 400+hp V8 sedan, and so on. Ford always seems to follow suit a few years later but either much more watered-down or has to go with something more specific like GT500 straight-line performance or focus RS, good vehicles in their own right, but GM seems to be shooting for the top over the last few decades, taking Porsche and Ferrari to task around the rings. Major props for doing so.

There wouldn't be a Camaro today if it wasn't for the success of the 5th gen retro themed Mustang, and there wouldn't be a ZL1 without the GT500. Heck there wouldn't be a camaro at all if it wasn't for the Mustang in the first place. I'd much rather have something unique like a 5.2 FPC Voodoo than any of the generic LT1 engines they seem to stuff in almost every car or truck produced by GM. Speaking of trucks aren't GM about to copy Ford's idea of all aluminium trucks after bashing it earlier?

Taking Ferrari and Porsche to task? Ford GT.

Coming from a Mopar guy with a Viper and Charger - Ford over GM all day any day. All GM does is copy. Must be easy being an engineer or designer there when all you have to do is know how to operate a photocopy machine. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't their Alpha platform essentially a copy of the E9X BMW chassis?

I like originals over copies, and with that I rest my case.

[Bt12]

There’s a Netflix documentary on the Mustang. Great watch for the history of how the muscle car ultimately got developed by Iococa

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by scoobysaurus

There wouldn't be a Camaro today if it wasn't for the success of the 5th gen retro themed Mustang, and there wouldn't be a ZL1 without the GT500. Heck there wouldn't be a camaro at all if it wasn't for the Mustang in the first place. I'd much rather have something unique like a 5.2 FPC Voodoo than any of the generic LT1 engines they seem to stuff in almost every car or truck produced by GM. Speaking of trucks aren't GM about to copy Ford's idea of all aluminium trucks after bashing it earlier?

Taking Ferrari and Porsche to task? Ford GT.

Coming from a Mopar guy with a Viper and Charger - Ford over GM all day any day. All GM does is copy. Must be easy being an engineer or designer there when all you have to do is know how to operate a photocopy machine. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't their Alpha platform essentially a copy of the E9X BMW chassis?

I like originals over copies, and with that I rest my case.

Really, you come into this guys "I bought a camaro thread" and bash GM without even a congrats??? Are you that bored at home?

Regardless, congrats on the 1LE, love the white/black combo! Enjoy in good health, hope to see some track pics eventually!

[RM7]

Originally Posted by scoobysaurus

There wouldn't be a Camaro today if it wasn't for the success of the 5th gen retro themed Mustang....

Without independent rear suspension, I never considered those to be serious cars. All they did was give them a bunch of HP and even though they were lighter with more HP, they still got beat around the track. This mainly because Ford was not dedicated to making the "complete sports car" package. GT350 and now the PP1/2 are a step in the right direction, but the zeta chassis was far superior to what Ford was making at the time. Ford Taurus sold a bunch too.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by scoobysaurus

There wouldn't be a Camaro today if it wasn't for the success of the 5th gen retro themed Mustang, and there wouldn't be a ZL1 without the GT500. Heck there wouldn't be a camaro at all if it wasn't for the Mustang in the first place. I'd much rather have something unique like a 5.2 FPC Voodoo than any of the generic LT1 engines they seem to stuff in almost every car or truck produced by GM. Speaking of trucks aren't GM about to copy Ford's idea of all aluminium trucks after bashing it earlier?

Taking Ferrari and Porsche to task? Ford GT.

Coming from a Mopar guy with a Viper and Charger - Ford over GM all day any day. All GM does is copy. Must be easy being an engineer or designer there when all you have to do is know how to operate a photocopy machine. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't their Alpha platform essentially a copy of the E9X BMW chassis?

I like originals over copies, and with that I rest my case.

:l aughabov

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by scoobysaurus

There wouldn't be a Camaro today if it wasn't for the success of the 5th gen retro themed Mustang, and there wouldn't be a ZL1 without the GT500. Heck there wouldn't be a camaro at all if it wasn't for the Mustang in the first place. I'd much rather have something unique like a 5.2 FPC Voodoo than any of the generic LT1 engines they seem to stuff in almost every car or truck produced by GM. Speaking of trucks aren't GM about to copy Ford's idea of all aluminium trucks after bashing it earlier?

Taking Ferrari and Porsche to task? Ford GT.

Coming from a Mopar guy with a Viper and Charger - Ford over GM all day any day. All GM does is copy. Must be easy being an engineer or designer there when all you have to do is know how to operate a photocopy machine. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't their Alpha platform essentially a copy of the E9X BMW chassis?

I like originals over copies, and with that I rest my case.

Everybody in the auto industry pushes each other. I am not brand loyal, and my ZL1 is my first Chevy, and my first American car.

The fact that any Camaro can be mentioned in the same breath as a Porsche 911 (not to mention a Turbo or GT3) is very impressive indeed, especially if we are talking about track times.

In the pony car world Ford has always been the 'first mover' GM has always pushed the performance up. Mopar has always been the last to the party, so they come up with some ridiculous color or character to get attention. (Don't get me wrong, I love how insane the Mopar guys are)

If you go back, post war GM was vary innovative, they pushed design (not just body design, OHV engines when Ford was clinging to the flat head), more then anybody else (successfully, that is). Go back farther, Ford had a 4 cylinder, so Chevy made a 6, so Ford made a V8, and so on.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by scoobysaurus

There wouldn't be a Camaro today if it wasn't for the success of the 5th gen retro themed Mustang, and there wouldn't be a ZL1 without the GT500. Heck there wouldn't be a camaro at all if it wasn't for the Mustang in the first place. I'd much rather have something unique like a 5.2 FPC Voodoo than any of the generic LT1 engines they seem to stuff in almost every car or truck produced by GM. Speaking of trucks aren't GM about to copy Ford's idea of all aluminium trucks after bashing it earlier?

Taking Ferrari and Porsche to task? Ford GT.

Coming from a Mopar guy with a Viper and Charger - Ford over GM all day any day. All GM does is copy. Must be easy being an engineer or designer there when all you have to do is know how to operate a photocopy machine. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't their Alpha platform essentially a copy of the E9X BMW chassis?

I like originals over copies, and with that I rest my case.

The LT1 isn’t in any GM truck. Just the Camaro and Corvette.

GM bashed aluminum in the bed floor, and that’s it. The Silverado has had an aluminum hood for longer than the F-150 has had an aluminum body.

No, the Alpha isn’t a copy of the E90.

Essentially everything you said is wrong.

[outatime e46]

I came from a 2010 Camaro SS. In my case, I found it too hard to daily drive - clutch was heavy, shifter effort was high (couldn’t rip through gears like an E46) and rear end would break loose easily. I got what I wanted in my M3, along with 2 more doors but I miss the loud abnoxious fun I had. Good luck!

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Well, it happened. Arrived on the boat and I picked it up yesterday. Through some freak of weather, it was 50 degrees yesterday so I was easily able to drive it home without fearing for my life or cracking the tires that crack below 20 degrees. Absolutely amazing to me, got to drive a bit more to the gas station and such. It feels so solid, so crisp and at the same time so smooth. Seems much higher quality than the cheaper non-v8/non-2ss models that I've driven to date, the suede seats with the wheel and the leather accents are nice. Doors nicer than the base models, and so on. The feel is just tremendous though, smooth gears, massive power and torque on tap, absolutely amazing noise, it seems to be what I wanted to "re-engage" with driving.

Only problem was the interior lighting was set to pink when I got it, someone must have been trying to screw with me (you can select around 30 different colors, I reset it to blue).

I'll try to get my winter tires and wheels on tonight.

Congrats! I'm actually considering a 2019 Camaro SS 1LE as a track/weekend vehicle. Some consumables are a lot less expensive on that car than the F8X M cars such as brake rotors. While 20" tires are expensive, I would look for a square 19" setup that is track worthy. The cost of catastrophic repairs is significantly less. A new LT1 engine is $9k whereas a rebuilt S55 is approximately $18k.

[Germanauto]

It's sad as the 4-series is one of BMW's best looking vehicles...ever.

But it's so "meh" to drive it just kills all the appeal.

BMW, Audi, and Mercedes target the same customer and have essentially ended up producing the same cars. Fast, numb steering, no sense of liveliness or playfulness from the car. Doesn't matter which segment of the market.

[TRZ06]

My lease is up on my M3 in 3 mths. I am currently working a deal on a 2018 2SS 1LE for around $44k (before TTL)

I have had my M3 for 3 years and put 40k miles on it and with the exception of the motor and the DCT, I was very disappointed.

The chassis can't handle the power , even with extreme performance category tires it struggles to put the power down , the ass end is all over the place and has crappy rebound damping. The MDM mode is a joke, works against you, not with you.

I ended up adding Ohlin R/T coilovers to get the stability and chassis control that should have come from the factory on a 75k M car. However as good as the Ohlin are at body control, there is a big ride quality penalty you pay with a coilover suspension.

I had issues with vibrations from the brakes , squeaks befitting a 3,000 dollar Yugo that took them wrapping 3M tape around everything to make it go away.

The 2SS interior is just as nice as the M3 interior without the full leather option.

The 2SS 1LE has the track numbers right about even with a GT350R and the M4 GTS. 275 / 305 tires and wheels that look perfect right off the showroom floor, no need to add spacers or the need to change the wheels out.

Magnetic ride shocks that are 100x better and react MUCH faster than the old technology valve based adjustable shocks the M3 uses.

A proper PTMS (Performance Traction Management System) that works for you and has many modes to choose from.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

My lease is up on my M3 in 3 mths. I am currently working a deal on a 2018 2SS 1LE for around $44k (before TTL)

I have had my M3 for 3 years and put 40k miles on it and with the exception of the motor and the DCT, I was very disappointed.

The chassis can't handle the power , even with extreme performance category tires it struggles to put the power down , the ass end is all over the place and has crappy rebound damping. The MDM mode is a joke, works against you, not with you.

I ended up adding Ohlin R/T coilovers to get the stability and chassis control that should have come from the factory on a 75k M car. However as good as the Ohlin are at body control, there is a big ride quality penalty you pay with a coilover suspension.

I had issues with vibrations from the brakes , squeaks befitting a 3,000 dollar Yugo that took them wrapping 3M tape around everything to make it go away.

The 2SS interior is just as nice as the M3 interior without the full leather option.

The 2SS 1LE has the track numbers right about even with a GT350R and the M4 GTS. 275 / 305 tires and wheels that look perfect right off the showroom floor, no need to add spacers or the need to change the wheels out.

Magnetic ride shocks that are 100x better and react MUCH faster than the old technology valve based adjustable shocks the M3 uses.

A proper PTMS (Performance Traction Management System) that works for you and had many modes to choose from.

One of the guys on the MTB boards I am part of showed the result of tracking his AMG C63, he shredded one of the tires and it just exploded in the well at 120mph. The thing is that whenever I see any vid of those cars being tested, they are screeching all over the place and looking up the stock wheel and tire size for that year, it was painfully obvious how they under-tired the car. The torque and power are comparable to the LT1, if not a bit more running a twin-turbo V8, but the tires are 235/255. That's downright criminal for that kind of power. M3 is a little better, but still runs with similar power and the chassis dynamics on the camaro are just so much better.

Overall the car(1LE) is a beast, in the best possible ways.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

One of the guys on the MTB boards I am part of showed the result of tracking his AMG C63, he shredded one of the tires and it just exploded in the well at 120mph. The thing is that whenever I see any vid of those cars being tested, they are screeching all over the place and looking up the stock wheel and tire size for that year, it was painfully obvious how they under-tired the car. The torque and power are comparable to the LT1, if not a bit more running a twin-turbo V8, but the tires are 235/255. That's downright criminal for that kind of power. M3 is a little better, but still runs with similar power and the chassis dynamics on the camaro are just so much better.

Overall the car(1LE) is a beast, in the best possible ways.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Regarding power, I will say after my test drive in the 1LE (which I was not easy on) and getting back in the M, because of the power delivery , the M3 feels faster, although I know the numbers for both are very close to each other.

BMW did do a good job with all the trickery they used to keep the turbos spooled up in Sport+ mode and for a turbo motor, doesn't fall off much in the upper RPM range.

I will miss the DCT, but the 1LE is one of the best shifters I have felt. The rev Match feature and no lift shift software will make it so I don't miss the DCT too much.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

The rev Match feature and no lift shift software will make it so I don't miss the DCT too much.

Except you still have to move a hand off the wheel and work a clutch. Pain in the ass when you're just trying to haul ass.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Except you still have to move a hand off the wheel and work a clutch. Pain in the ass when you're just trying to haul ass.

For $30k less, I'll take that trade off.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Yeah, it's crazy.

Regarding power, I will say after my test drive in the 1LE (which I was not easy on) and getting back in the M, because of the power delivery , the M3 feels faster, although I know the numbers for both are very close to each other.

BMW did do a good job with all the trickery they used to keep the turbos spooled up in Sport+ mode and for a turbo motor, doesn't fall off much in the upper RPM range.

I will miss the DCT, but the 1LE is one of the best shifters I have felt. The rev Match feature and no lift shift software will make it so I don't miss the DCT too much.

4000+ rpm is where it comes alive, but it’s loud and takes off like crazy at that rpm, so it makes you think you want to shift early. Don’t, and you are rewarded with insane fun. It's a lot different than full torque at 1700rpm, as in the M3, but the LT1 is still a good deal of torque down low, just not kick-you-in-the-pants torque. More like "climb any hill in any gear torque". Get it above 4000 and you get the kick in the pants.

[irishbimmer]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

From an enthusiast's standpoint, there are certainly better BMW options than the 428xi GC. So, I can understand you wanting to jump ship. That model car is saturating the roads which I drive. It's a typical BMW cheap lease that has a pretty exterior design. It's no driving machine, let alone an ultimate one.

I have to agree with this...My wife drives a 440imsport and that is a quick little car with 326 hp and good torque. She loves it. The 4 cylinder will never bring you the same rewards of a high performance chevy.

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by irishbimmer

I have to agree with this...My wife drives a 440imsport and that is a quick little car with 326 hp and good torque. She loves it. The 4 cylinder will never bring you the same rewards of a high performance chevy.

I had the 335i with PPK (+35 hp). The engine/8AT combo was so well executed, smooth as butter and deceptively quick. High speed cruising was especially effortless. A+ drivetrain. Beyond that, it's handling, steering, and overall feel was plain uninspiring. The M sport package was merely aesthetics, albeit great looking. I'm confident I'll never get another non M BMW. There are just say too many better choices from other manufacturers in the quasi-sport realm of cars.