[Futbol]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

It has a *few* light scratches (that I could probably take out by hand) - but using my waterless wash w/ 1MF/panel method for years, I think the car looks great soooo... what do I need PPF or Ceramic for? That's my perennial question ...

Having had many cars with well over 150,000 miles including my current X5d at 200K+ road miles, PPF is a must for full front hood, mirrors, bumpers. In CA freeways there is so much road crap being kicked up by all cars and trucks going 75mph++ that you get all kinds of pits on your hood. Would NEVER have another car without PPF on sensitive areas. If you drive in NB at cruising speeds of 20mph, you might get away with no protection. But drive on the 405 or 5 at 80mph for 15K miles per year and tell me difference in 12 months!

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Futbol

Having had many cars with well over 150,000 miles including my current X5d at 200K+ road miles, PPF is a must for full front hood, mirrors, bumpers. In CA freeways there is so much road crap being kicked up by all cars and trucks going 75mph++ that you get all kinds of pits on your hood. Would NEVER have another car without PPF on sensitive areas. If you drive in NB at cruising speeds of 20mph, you might get away with no protection. But drive on the 405 or 5 at 80mph for 15K miles per year and tell me difference in 12 months!

That car above has lots of triple digit autobahn miles, and in the US, been up & california 4x, all over NB & OC (was actually delivered there after ED!), all over Silicon Valley, and driven in anger on many many many mountain passes ... it's on its 3rd windshield ...

Can't say I've done 15k / yr on 405, but maybe 10k/yr on 101/280.

There's definitely some pitting, but I'm not planning to keep any vehicle more than 3-4 years so, if it does get hit, it's just really more of a question of what bothers me more: knicks in the paint that I can have touched up at a local shop, or knicks in the PPF that I"ll likely never get repaired?

It's a totally personal thing, and I'm always considering PPF, and maybe I just keep getting lucky, but I've never washed the front end and thought dammit, time for PPF! I keep thinking I could buy a Rupes mark 3 bigfoot and full set of lake pads & compound and still not even be 30% of what PPF costs ...


The windshields though ... one was killed by a bolt from a semi on 101, another killed from a rock that flew over the barrier from the other side of the freeway ...

Oh, maybe one note: I've never been a commuter so I'm always going high speed the opposite direction of traffic flow.

[Rondi]

I never thought that waterless cleaning with micro fiber was sooo easy

I heard of this before, but I guess I was too lazy to try to do it myself. Well, not anymore… yesterday I spent about 10 minutes and cleaning both sides and the back of the car so fast and using half of the bottle that I have

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Rondi

I never thought that waterless cleaning with micro fiber was sooo easy

I heard of this before, but I guess I was too lazy to try to do it myself. Well, not anymore…

wow, that looks really awesome! ZERO swirls or scratches - you're nailin it!

[11001X101]

I used ONR and Turtle product before. Lol. I can see the need for this when you live in a cold area and need to wash inside a garage or you live in certain areas of CA where they limit you on how much water/soap you can use. Other than that, why would one not want to use water? Waterless works to certain extent. When the car is dirty, it just does not work. I would rather just leave it dirty until I can do a full wash myself. I do have a foam cannon and use it once in a while so ...I can take a picture and post on bimmerpost. I really don't think it makes my car look any better than a regular hose. I like to run my naked hand over the soaped surface to feel the paint. I do top/dry it off with a quick detailer. I clay bar when needed.
I had Ceramic before and it's silly imo to argue that ceramic doesn't add shine to the car. It's day and night if done right.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by 10101X5

Other than that, why would one not want to use water? Waterless works to certain extent. When the car is dirty, it just does not work.

DISCLAIMER: People should use what works in their process and that's always the right choice for the very best reasons!

With that:

(a.) Very dirty cars need to be sprayed down, period. Whether that's at a U-wash place or elsewhere, if there's a lot of dirt, sand, etc you gotta spray them down.

(b.) Road film can only be removed with a degreaser - foam/shampoo/ONR won't do it but a contact wash from one of those drive-thru washes will! It'll just scratch the shit out of your car

(c.) ONR is for maintained vehicles without much caked on dirt - ideally using the "garry dean" method, not the red sponge method

(d.) Maintenance sprays of an LSP/spray wax at every wash is basically ceramic - but no matter what you have, if road film bonds to your paint/ppf/ceramic because you let it sit for a few sessions in the Sun, then you'll have to polish it off.

(e.) Ceramic/Graphene has a great look, but permanent (i.e., 3-5 years stuff) can make it hard to change the look with different coatings; e.g., 100% carnauba glow vs a light ceramic's candy-coating look like Gyeon's quartz pure.

Lastly, why would you want to maintain with ONR? Because it's fast & easy!

[lake_eleven]

Originally Posted by Rondi

I never thought that waterless cleaning with micro fiber was sooo easy

I heard of this before, but I guess I was too lazy to try to do it myself. Well, not anymore… yesterday I spent about 10 minutes and cleaning both sides and the back of the car so fast and using half of the bottle that I have

Rondi;28227307, can you share the waterless washing products you used. Want to try it now myself.
BTW, what is ONR

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by lake_eleven

Rondi;28227307, can you share the waterless washing products you used. Want to try it now myself.
BTW, what is ONR

ONR = optimum no rinse / rinseless. I've started using McKee's 37 rinseless wash and I have to say it's better, so if you're going that route, that's what you need: a good rinseless wash.

In general, that's all you need: mckees and 8-10 MFs (I'd use Rag Co pfuffles). Ideally you spray down the car first, but if that's not possible then, working 1 panel at a time:

(1.) Put 1/2 - 1 cap of mckees into a container with 1 gallon of distilled water & mix (the ratios are on the bottle but I use double or triple strength). Pour 32 oz into a spray bottle and then put 4 MFs directly into the container to soak.

(2.) Working one panel at a time (hood=2 panels), spray down the 1st panel to soak for a minute, and next one ahead

(3.) Take one MF out, fold in 1/4s, *lightly* wring out just until it's not dripping - spray more solution on as needed

(4.) Work top down, *lightly* wipe in one direction (say, right to left), then move down & whip again until you get to the bottom; use a dry MF in 1/4s to buff off. NEVER put the dirty MF back into the container; once it's out, it's out. When you've used every side of the MF put in a dirty pile and grab a new one and keep going, same with the dry ones, only use 1/4 per panel.

(5.) Once you're done with the car, you can optionally use some new MFs and spray on a LSP like P&S beadmaker or Turtle Wax Flex Wax.


If you maintain it (and used an LSP every time or 2 or 3), it shouldn't get very dirty and the dirt that's there should come off very easily, including bugs.

BTW, something like TW's Flex Wax can be used on trim & windows too so they repel water.

You can use the same process for the Wheels & tires assuming they're not too dirty ... but if they are you'll need hose them down and/or first use something like P&S Brake Buster which I like because it's non-acidic and works for both wheels & tires ... but you'll need water for a job like that. You can do it without, but it's not easy to mop up the brake buster and you'd need somelike scott shop towels and then you'd want to rinse with sprays of distilled water before you wash with Mckees. You can use whatever LSP you're using on the paint on the wheels, and then I prefer CarPro Perl for the tire dressing. If you want to get fancy with wheel washing, you'll want to get the microfiber madness incredibrush (you can use cheaper versions though), and you'll want something like Tuf Shine's tire brush for cleaning.

For interiors I use P&S's xpress cleaner which leaves no residue.

If you want to protect the leather, I recommend colourlock's leather shield

[lake_eleven]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

ONR = optimum no rinse / rinseless. I've started using McKee's 37 rinseless wash and I have to say it's better, so if you're going that route, that's what you need: a good rinseless wash.

In general, that's all you need: mckees and 8-10 MFs (I'd use Rag Co pfuffles). Ideally you spray down the car first, but if that's not possible then, working 1 panel at a time:

(1.) Put 1/2 - 1 cap of mckees into a container with 1 gallon of distilled water & mix (the ratios are on the bottle but I use double or triple strength). Pour 32 oz into a spray bottle and then put 4 MFs directly into the container to soak.

(2.) Working one panel at a time (hood=2 panels), spray down the 1st panel to soak for a minute, and next one ahead

(3.) Take one MF out, fold in 1/4s, *lightly* wring out just until it's not dripping - spray more solution on as needed

(4.) Work top down, *lightly* wipe in one direction (say, right to left), then move down & whip again until you get to the bottom; use a dry MF in 1/4s to buff off. NEVER put the dirty MF back into the container; once it's out, it's out. When you've used every side of the MF put in a dirty pile and grab a new one and keep going, same with the dry ones, only use 1/4 per panel.

(5.) Once you're done with the car, you can optionally use some new MFs and spray on a LSP like P&S beadmaker or Turtle Wax Flex Wax.


If you maintain it (and used an LSP every time or 2 or 3), it shouldn't get very dirty and the dirt that's there should come off very easily, including bugs.

BTW, something like TW's Flex Wax can be used on trim & windows too so they repel water.

You can use the same process for the Wheels & tires assuming they're not too dirty ... but if they are you'll need hose them down and/or first use something like P&S Brake Buster which I like because it's non-acidic and works for both wheels & tires ... but you'll need water for a job like that. You can do it without, but it's not easy to mop up the brake buster and you'd need somelike scott shop towels and then you'd want to rinse with sprays of distilled water before you wash with Mckees. You can use whatever LSP you're using on the paint on the wheels, and then I prefer CarPro Perl for the tire dressing. If you want to get fancy with wheel washing, you'll want to get the microfiber madness incredibrush (you can use cheaper versions though), and you'll want something like Tuf Shine's tire brush for cleaning.

For interiors I use P&S's xpress cleaner which leaves no residue.

If you want to protect the leather, I recommend colourlock's leather shield

Thankyou, very helpful!